Ive just done another race at Melbourne and had the same again. Not sure if anyone else has encountered this too but if you move off the racing line down the straight by say a half car width the AI car following will try and barge down the inside even though there's not enough room. Result is a crash or heavy contact generally. Seems to happen every time now I've noticed it. Curious.
First off sorry most of my posts are so wordy...I prefer to consolidate my findings 
So...I did a double check with a website that compares xml files (prettydiff[dot]com)
Here's the differences between the ORIGINAL ai_driver_config.xml file and the Safety Car ai_driver_config.xml file (Original values on left, SC values on right):
<scTargetSeparationTime float="0.5"/> --> 0.2 (minimum distance you and AI are allowed to follow behind the safety car?)
<scInLapLeaderSpeed float="25.0"/> --> 40.0 (speed of safety car around track)
<scMaxThrottle float="0.48"/> --> 0.68 (max throttle/acceleration of safety car)
<scMaxSpeedThroughIncidentZone float="50.0"/> --> 30.0 (speed SC will drive at through incident zone)
<rtRetirementSpeed float="60.0"/> --> 70.0 (speed of a damaged AI car when they try to get back to the pits)
<rtRetirementResetTimer float="12.0"/> --> 50.0 (timeout for AI to decide to retire?)
<rtModerateDamageThreshold float="0.5"/> --> 0.85 (damage level that constitutes when the AI will retire vs attempting a repair)
<dfBrakeZoneLimit float="300.0"/> --> 250.0 (this has something to do with drafting parameters, not sure though)
<rcRecoveryTimeOut float="10.0"/> --> 65.0 (timeout before an AI car decides to retire)
<ovTime float="5.0"/> --> 4.0 (time for AI to execute an overtake?)
<rsStallPercentage float="0.0"/> --> 5.0 (% chance of an AI stalling at race start)
<maxObservedViewTime float="10.0"/> --> 25.0 (don't know what this does. changed it to 60 in my ai file and didn't see a difference)
So based on this, I don't believe combining the values from the SC ai_driver_config.xml file with Demy's ai_driver_config file would lead to the issue I'm seeing. Same applies to the database differences since these are very minimal and only relate to the safety car chance per track. Unless the <dfBrakeZoneLimit float /> has something to do with it? I just don't know what that value does.
_____________________________________________________
Demy van Zoggel I think the issue may be with these values:
<asOffsetMergeFactorGentle float="2.5" /> (soft merge factor for being alongside a car...not sure exactly what this means)
<asOffsetMergeFactorExtreme float="5.0" /> (same as above, just a "harder" merge factor?)
<asCarInFrontYeildDistance float="9.0" /> (don't know what this does, seems important though)
<dfMinDraftSeperation float="2.0" /> (minimum distance a drafting AI car will get to the car in front? Not sure...)
<dfMaxDraftSpeedDifference float="10.0" /> (Maximum allowed speed difference between car ahead & drafting car? Or maybe it's the speed difference that constitutes going for overtake or avoidance? I was under the impression that drafting speeds were controlled by the CTF files since that's where the drag and aero coefficients are located...not sure though)
Another value that I thought might be of use was
<avPassAngle float="0.15" /> (avoidance pass angle...theoretically the larger the angle, the easier it will be for AI to avoid/pass another car...?)
Demy is there a master list of which values in these ai files do what exactly? I'd love to see a global list like that
So...I did a double check with a website that compares xml files (prettydiff[dot]com)
Here's the differences between the ORIGINAL ai_driver_config.xml file and the Safety Car ai_driver_config.xml file (Original values on left, SC values on right):
<scTargetSeparationTime float="0.5"/> --> 0.2 (minimum distance you and AI are allowed to follow behind the safety car?)
<scInLapLeaderSpeed float="25.0"/> --> 40.0 (speed of safety car around track)
<scMaxThrottle float="0.48"/> --> 0.68 (max throttle/acceleration of safety car)
<scMaxSpeedThroughIncidentZone float="50.0"/> --> 30.0 (speed SC will drive at through incident zone)
<rtRetirementSpeed float="60.0"/> --> 70.0 (speed of a damaged AI car when they try to get back to the pits)
<rtRetirementResetTimer float="12.0"/> --> 50.0 (timeout for AI to decide to retire?)
<rtModerateDamageThreshold float="0.5"/> --> 0.85 (damage level that constitutes when the AI will retire vs attempting a repair)
<dfBrakeZoneLimit float="300.0"/> --> 250.0 (this has something to do with drafting parameters, not sure though)
<rcRecoveryTimeOut float="10.0"/> --> 65.0 (timeout before an AI car decides to retire)
<ovTime float="5.0"/> --> 4.0 (time for AI to execute an overtake?)
<rsStallPercentage float="0.0"/> --> 5.0 (% chance of an AI stalling at race start)
<maxObservedViewTime float="10.0"/> --> 25.0 (don't know what this does. changed it to 60 in my ai file and didn't see a difference)
So based on this, I don't believe combining the values from the SC ai_driver_config.xml file with Demy's ai_driver_config file would lead to the issue I'm seeing. Same applies to the database differences since these are very minimal and only relate to the safety car chance per track. Unless the <dfBrakeZoneLimit float /> has something to do with it? I just don't know what that value does.
_____________________________________________________
Demy van Zoggel I think the issue may be with these values:
<asOffsetMergeFactorGentle float="2.5" /> (soft merge factor for being alongside a car...not sure exactly what this means)
<asOffsetMergeFactorExtreme float="5.0" /> (same as above, just a "harder" merge factor?)
<asCarInFrontYeildDistance float="9.0" /> (don't know what this does, seems important though)
<dfMinDraftSeperation float="2.0" /> (minimum distance a drafting AI car will get to the car in front? Not sure...)
<dfMaxDraftSpeedDifference float="10.0" /> (Maximum allowed speed difference between car ahead & drafting car? Or maybe it's the speed difference that constitutes going for overtake or avoidance? I was under the impression that drafting speeds were controlled by the CTF files since that's where the drag and aero coefficients are located...not sure though)
Another value that I thought might be of use was
<avPassAngle float="0.15" /> (avoidance pass angle...theoretically the larger the angle, the easier it will be for AI to avoid/pass another car...?)
Demy is there a master list of which values in these ai files do what exactly? I'd love to see a global list like that
D
Deleted member 137812
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Deleted member 137812
I noticed earlier that this is something that mclaren does, im gonna try to change the angle they pass.
avPassAngle was what i was thinking about, as mentioned above.
Kristian Nenov has a topic with some values described, its in the F1 2011 modding section
Demy van Zoggel I just gotta say I love when you're online...**** actually gets done
D
Deleted member 137812
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Deleted member 137812
Could anyone get this on video for me? Because im still not having the problem.
Sorry Demy not at home right now. Maybe Luke Weston can get it on video?
Dave Fox
I get there...eventually.
Tried to replicate conditions in a quick race but couldnt get it to happen...
will just continue my career and will grab the footage when it happens again.
snthennumbers
I changed the drs setting you mentioned earlier and I think its having the desired effect,
drs enabled cars are able to catchup but not like before....seems much more accurate to real life now
but i wondered if this might be causing the ai to backout of the overtake ? (because of reduced speed difference)
will just continue my career and will grab the footage when it happens again.
snthennumbers
I changed the drs setting you mentioned earlier and I think its having the desired effect,
drs enabled cars are able to catchup but not like before....seems much more accurate to real life now
but i wondered if this might be causing the ai to backout of the overtake ? (because of reduced speed difference)
Sasha Jednak
Sasa Jednak
If you get those problems in career it is possible that you changed version of mods from time you started your career. That gave me lot of trouble in my career. I started with version 2, than changed to version 2.4 and added competitive braking mod. There were no problems in QR but in career it wasTried to replicate conditions in a quick race but couldnt get it to happen...
will just continue my career and will grab the footage when it happens again.
snthennumbers
I changed the drs setting you mentioned earlier and I think its having the desired effect,
drs enabled cars are able to catchup but not like before....seems much more accurate to real life now
but i wondered if this might be causing the ai to backout of the overtake ? (because of reduced speed difference)
You can see it on my race videos of Montreal and Valencia in my career thread. I haven't tested last version of this mod yet.
Dave Fox
I get there...eventually.
I have been switching mods about alot during my career which is probably what caused major issues yesterday for me.
Last night i sat down to race the final race of the season @ Brazil.....Hamilton was 1 point ahead of me in the chapionship, i was with williams.
but when i switched the game on i was met with the message that my save file was corrupt and will be deleted !!
Now im starting all over with ToroRosso....I'll try be more 'gentle' with the game files from now on and have disabled the cloud in steam.
Last night i sat down to race the final race of the season @ Brazil.....Hamilton was 1 point ahead of me in the chapionship, i was with williams.
but when i switched the game on i was met with the message that my save file was corrupt and will be deleted !!
Now im starting all over with ToroRosso....I'll try be more 'gentle' with the game files from now on and have disabled the cloud in steam.
D
Deleted member 137812
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Deleted member 137812
My biggest advise to you guys is start a Quick Race season. Just save your points in an excel file, ive made a nice one so you can ask me anytime!
Also go to the language file and change the name of the driver you like to be into yours and voila, same as Career but you evade the problems it brings.
Also go to the language file and change the name of the driver you like to be into yours and voila, same as Career but you evade the problems it brings.
Hi,
I just tested your mod, first of all, I have to complement you on the behaviour. Blocking and overtaking is really well done.
A few Points I have though:
1. I too noticed the problem of AI cars being too dumb to overtake on straights. It seems as if they wait too long to leave the racing line when they slipstream. But that's not a Problem of your mod, that is in the original files, too.
2. Since I mod myself, especially regarding the Performance (far from ready, sadly) I only used your AI and decals folder. I noticed, that there is a drop in laptimes when I use your files. I tested in Silverstone, for which I have created a new ai_vehicle_track file to make AI cars more competitive, speed-wise. With the original AI-files it works fine and in a 25% race I get AI times (leader not held up by other cars) from 1:35,high before pitstop, to 1:35,0 in the last two laps.
(this is with AI cars getting faster after the pitstop)
With your files though, times are 1:36,5 before pitstop to 1:35,8 in the last laps. When watching the AI cars drive, I noticed they seemed to have difficulties with either braking or steering, as it looked is if they got some serious understeer and often went slightly wide, thereby loosing the time.
Performance-Progression over the race looked really nice though, seems to be an improvement over the fast-mix-till-the-end-after-pitstop-strategy they used before.
Would be great, if you could find a solution for that, as our mods would be compatible then
I just tested your mod, first of all, I have to complement you on the behaviour. Blocking and overtaking is really well done.
A few Points I have though:
1. I too noticed the problem of AI cars being too dumb to overtake on straights. It seems as if they wait too long to leave the racing line when they slipstream. But that's not a Problem of your mod, that is in the original files, too.
2. Since I mod myself, especially regarding the Performance (far from ready, sadly) I only used your AI and decals folder. I noticed, that there is a drop in laptimes when I use your files. I tested in Silverstone, for which I have created a new ai_vehicle_track file to make AI cars more competitive, speed-wise. With the original AI-files it works fine and in a 25% race I get AI times (leader not held up by other cars) from 1:35,high before pitstop, to 1:35,0 in the last two laps.
(this is with AI cars getting faster after the pitstop)
With your files though, times are 1:36,5 before pitstop to 1:35,8 in the last laps. When watching the AI cars drive, I noticed they seemed to have difficulties with either braking or steering, as it looked is if they got some serious understeer and often went slightly wide, thereby loosing the time.
Performance-Progression over the race looked really nice though, seems to be an improvement over the fast-mix-till-the-end-after-pitstop-strategy they used before.
Would be great, if you could find a solution for that, as our mods would be compatible then
Demy van Zoggel I have a question for you:
Watch this video of me racing at turn 3 of Montreal
You'll see Alonso remains a fixed distance from Hamilton in the Mercedes going around the turn, but then runs out of track...and that's where everything falls apart lol.
So my question is where are the settings that govern this behavior?
Also, how did you figure out how to make the weight of flying car parts heavier? You'll see Hamilton's front wing breaks because he hits Alonso's flying broken wing. Way cool, but how'd you do that?
Watch this video of me racing at turn 3 of Montreal
You'll see Alonso remains a fixed distance from Hamilton in the Mercedes going around the turn, but then runs out of track...and that's where everything falls apart lol.
So my question is where are the settings that govern this behavior?
Also, how did you figure out how to make the weight of flying car parts heavier? You'll see Hamilton's front wing breaks because he hits Alonso's flying broken wing. Way cool, but how'd you do that?
Demy van Zoggel here's some more video's of what I was talking about earlier with cars just giving up instead of going for a totally-doable pass.
Webber & Button Give Up
Webber Just Gives Up
Webber Should Have Lifted Earlier
Bottas Gives Up
Mods I have installed:
Realism Mod v3.1
Safety Car mod - tracks only
Mr. Pibb's 2013 mod (this is a graphics-only mod)
2013 Car liveries (graphic skins only)
Webber & Button Give Up
Webber Just Gives Up
Realism Mod v3.1
Safety Car mod - tracks only
Mr. Pibb's 2013 mod (this is a graphics-only mod)
2013 Car liveries (graphic skins only)
D
Deleted member 137812
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Deleted member 137812
@First video, crashes happen. this doesnt have to be a bad thing right? I noticed this on xbox too btw, its like they try to outbrake someone for no reason. (it was online on xbox). The AI takes that line when they hold their line. The problem here is, we cant have both I think, an aggressive AI, and a careful AI. We just dont have enough values to do so.
@Second video, why should they back out? there is a turn and they both are in no position to overtake
@Third video, Webber is there but you take an other line and shut the door?
@Fourth video, Bottas should have hold his line, but maybe he takes safety over defending this time, like we've seen a lot past year.
It's not like im trying to defend it or something, you shouldnt see it like that. I get what you mean. Crash in first video is due aggression, he wants to hold his line. But maybe it has to do with merging (merging means getting back on race line i think), his merging over there is way to aggressive. They do this on Catalunya 3rd turn too. (Ferrari does this a lot).
As for the rest of the videos, I only agree with you on Bottas. But still he isnt in the car to hold the inside line in that turn, it would end up in a real mess there.
Somewhere during 2.x I had a super aggressive mod, but people were complaining about AI running into the back of my car. Its so hard to get this steady.
@Second video, why should they back out? there is a turn and they both are in no position to overtake
@Third video, Webber is there but you take an other line and shut the door?
@Fourth video, Bottas should have hold his line, but maybe he takes safety over defending this time, like we've seen a lot past year.
It's not like im trying to defend it or something, you shouldnt see it like that. I get what you mean. Crash in first video is due aggression, he wants to hold his line. But maybe it has to do with merging (merging means getting back on race line i think), his merging over there is way to aggressive. They do this on Catalunya 3rd turn too. (Ferrari does this a lot).
As for the rest of the videos, I only agree with you on Bottas. But still he isnt in the car to hold the inside line in that turn, it would end up in a real mess there.
Somewhere during 2.x I had a super aggressive mod, but people were complaining about AI running into the back of my car. Its so hard to get this steady.
Thanks Demy, good feedback. I understand what you're getting at, but here's what I was trying to get at with the videos.
Video with Alonso - I understand exactly what you're saying, and I do agree that it's probably something to do with the merge parameters in the ai_driver_config file. Last night I was messing around with the <asReject and <ovReject values. Set them both to 0 and the AI will not deviate from the racing line at all lol. You can drive next to them on a straight and just push them over...they'll just push right back (but lose) until they go off the track or into a wall. They also basically don't try to avoid anything in front of them.
Do you think you explain which merge values handle this behavior seen with Alonso? I was thinking it was the "<asOffsetMergeFactor" parameters. I saw you lowered these from the original ai_driver_config file...but I was hoping to figure out what those values actually mean and do in game so I can test them.
Bottas - yes, sure he should've backed out given he's in a Williams and I'm in a McLaren...that's fine, makes sense.
Video of Webber and Button has me a little more concerned. Yes there's a slight turn before turn 1 in Montreal, however given the speed that Webber (we'll leave Button out of this since he was further back) was coming up behind me, I would've liked to see Webber at least try to poke his nose down the inside. I think in real life in that same situation any driver would've at least tried for an overtake...even if they wound up backing out closer to the apex of the turn. This isn't just for Montreal...I notice this on numerous other tracks where the AI will have the advantage, and should hold their line...but simply give up and brake way too early. You can see this in this video. Webber and Button brake way too early. I thought I broke late, but then you can see that I'm just about on the apex of turn 1. So ideally at least Webber should've stayed close behind me instead of backing away like he did. After that video ended I had over a 1.5 second gap to Webber coming out of turn 2 since he lost so much momentum.
What parameters in what files determine when or if the AI will back out? I later tried setting those <asReject and <ovReject parameters to very low values and the AI still acted this way #confused
The "webber should have lifted earlier" video. I think this is the merge issue again. Webber tries so hard to get around me on the outside that he runs out of track, panics, and cranks the steering wheel over in order to stay on the racing line. Whereas in real life he probably would've continued to put on the brakes and/or just clip the corner a little bit.
So, yes like you said this is probably a balance between aggressive AI and cautious AI, but I saw the <asWideLimitsSpeed float="999.0" /> parameter....this says to me "AI can go as fast as they want when alongside on the outside line...until they run out of track". Does that sound right? Or maybe the <ovSpeedDifference float="0.1" /> has something to do with this?
Please if you would, share any info that you know about the parameters in the ai files and what you know they do in-game. Especially for the ai_driver_config file since this ai file seems to have a lot to do with how the AI drives.
Thanks as always Demy...I know I'm being a pain in the ass
Video with Alonso - I understand exactly what you're saying, and I do agree that it's probably something to do with the merge parameters in the ai_driver_config file. Last night I was messing around with the <asReject and <ovReject values. Set them both to 0 and the AI will not deviate from the racing line at all lol. You can drive next to them on a straight and just push them over...they'll just push right back (but lose) until they go off the track or into a wall. They also basically don't try to avoid anything in front of them.
Do you think you explain which merge values handle this behavior seen with Alonso? I was thinking it was the "<asOffsetMergeFactor" parameters. I saw you lowered these from the original ai_driver_config file...but I was hoping to figure out what those values actually mean and do in game so I can test them.
Bottas - yes, sure he should've backed out given he's in a Williams and I'm in a McLaren...that's fine, makes sense.
Video of Webber and Button has me a little more concerned. Yes there's a slight turn before turn 1 in Montreal, however given the speed that Webber (we'll leave Button out of this since he was further back) was coming up behind me, I would've liked to see Webber at least try to poke his nose down the inside. I think in real life in that same situation any driver would've at least tried for an overtake...even if they wound up backing out closer to the apex of the turn. This isn't just for Montreal...I notice this on numerous other tracks where the AI will have the advantage, and should hold their line...but simply give up and brake way too early. You can see this in this video. Webber and Button brake way too early. I thought I broke late, but then you can see that I'm just about on the apex of turn 1. So ideally at least Webber should've stayed close behind me instead of backing away like he did. After that video ended I had over a 1.5 second gap to Webber coming out of turn 2 since he lost so much momentum.
What parameters in what files determine when or if the AI will back out? I later tried setting those <asReject and <ovReject parameters to very low values and the AI still acted this way #confused
The "webber should have lifted earlier" video. I think this is the merge issue again. Webber tries so hard to get around me on the outside that he runs out of track, panics, and cranks the steering wheel over in order to stay on the racing line. Whereas in real life he probably would've continued to put on the brakes and/or just clip the corner a little bit.
So, yes like you said this is probably a balance between aggressive AI and cautious AI, but I saw the <asWideLimitsSpeed float="999.0" /> parameter....this says to me "AI can go as fast as they want when alongside on the outside line...until they run out of track". Does that sound right? Or maybe the <ovSpeedDifference float="0.1" /> has something to do with this?
Please if you would, share any info that you know about the parameters in the ai files and what you know they do in-game. Especially for the ai_driver_config file since this ai file seems to have a lot to do with how the AI drives.
Thanks as always Demy...I know I'm being a pain in the ass
Hey Demi, which values did you change in the database.bin? because i am using a 2013 mod and want to insert your values for the 2013 database. would appreciate it it you help me
Yes, you are correct. I use both of those performance mods as well. I defnitely find qualy a real challenge now, which is good, I like it
. But the race is a little easier as the AI don't seem as fast over a full race distance, maybe over a few individual laps when they are racing close to you, but not over a full race. They also tend to make a lot more mistakes and accidents in the race, especially in changing weather conditions, which is also good. I did a race 2 days ago in Hungary and Schumacher crashed all on his own there and brought out the safety car, just as the track was getting wet enough to pit from dry tyres to inters.
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