2011 Nations Grand Prix

[Tomas Torasen]

Ok Tomas, no problem, you can overtake and race, but we always should remember the rules. If you were the faster one i would let you through of course, because of the blue flag. This race was also very strange with all the problems, i was irritated as well with my computer and netkar, for screwing me like this

I agree with repeating the race, but wathever the decision of the organization, it's good to me.
We must make sure we find out what exactly is the problem first, though...

well first from my view, the start of the race: everyone seemed to me as they made a decent start, not just crashing into each other. Suddenly I see infront a typical netcode + the wierd crash physics which netKar has that makes cars fly like they got hit 300 mph when it infact wouldnt even hurt the car in reality in very slow speed.
I thought I was lucky to avoid the worst of that, instantly steering away from it, knowing from before how exaggerated crashes get in netKar. But just as I think that and getting out of the first hairpin something hit me and I am flying like a bird too. So back to pits.
After that i knew I could drive consistently which I did until I got thrown out of the race when netKar crashed on me at lap 17. I saw other people also going out of the race and returning, maybe same thing? At least I know of Paul who also had the game crashing.

To me it is not some big mistery what happened, it was the same bugs that I've seen in almost every KS2 race so far (net code + exaggerated crash physics) and on top of that the game crashing as a result of something.
Why netKar crashed for several of us I dont know, but it's not hard to see that is an unexpected bug because of driving in the rain which we have not tried much in KS2 before. I've done quite a few races now and suddenly with rain online somehow several of us have a game crash.
I dont really see how this can be avoided effectively since the errors lie withing netKar's code and not the intention of the drivers.

I will not withdraw from this league so far into it but I can tell you that I will not participate in any more KS2 league in netKar until a later version at least.
I have much respect for all the drivers and the very good spirit here at RD's netKar section, so I dont feel that people in the lead are not deserving in any means. But I do feel that the final score's here will be much decided by chance struck by the bugs in netKar and the final scoring would probably have looked quite different for many teams. To me this is not acceptable since many of us put much of our free time into practicing and preparing setups for a race which ends not by our fault or any other drivers, but by a game that does not work properly.

 

[Paul Hamwa]

To me this is not acceptable since many of us put much of our free time into practicing and preparing setups for a race which ends not by our fault or any other drivers, but by a game that does not work properly.

I agree Tomas, it's sad that we've all come this far and get slapped in the face by the netcode.

I spent some time on Kart Racing Pro, which is very similar netcode wise, although quite a bit worse than Netkar. There, when someone has high ping the admin has to boot them from the game otherwise the game becomes unplayable. This is not by any means what I'm suggesting but it made me think about one of the most challenging things for Netkar in it's current state, the fact that this is the "Nations" Grand Prix, drivers come from all over the world, literally. This causes a lot of lags for everyone and stresses Netkar to its max. I think it just can't cope. As Alessandro said the Radiators League are all or mostly from Italy and on a dedicated server, that alone might make a huge difference. I've spent endless hours on Laurent's server practicing, which is just his home computer and never had a single crash like that.

Don't really know what the solution is to this, I really highly doubt the weather affects the Netcode, but then again why would I know that...

Having a blast playing Netkar because of the tyre model physics and weather effects, but I can now see why netcode is so incredibly important. Kunos if you are listening PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE work on the netcode and nothing else. Otherwise this game will eventually die, and that would be very sad...

Sorry I forgot my manners yesterday! Big Thanks to Bjorn for organizing this and everyone for a fun and new experience!

Oh and lastly, about redoing the race, I'm so sick of Spa in the rain right now I could puke. So I'm not sure if I want to do it again for a while...

 

[Cesar Ferrolho]

In my case, what makes it really frustrating is that Laurent Resende and me where doing a test race in the server around 1 o'clock in the afternoon and these things didn't happen, but it was only the two of us. I had finished 17 laps, then the server went into practice mode, but no crashes or hangs.

Maybe we could simply ignore the rain, for now. Things were not perfect in the dry, but at least the league went somewhat normal. Maybe we could at least finish the championship with dry races and only use rain for club races. What do you think, Bjorn?

P.S: In this race i couldn't see skins or even choose skins other than the default netkar skins, anyone had the same problem?

 

[Sérgio Marques]

Well guys is very sad to read all this reports, must be very hard to had a crash to desktop in a race like this and after all the work to prepare this.

Spa is a long track, plus the rain, maybe it force's to much the hardware and cause this troubles, if the race is going to be repeated, maybe is better to do it on dry.

 

[Sérgio Marques]

Cesar, nãs tens de pedir qualquer desculpa, há coisas de estão fora do nosso controlo e nem sempre conseguimos antecipá-las, percebo como deves estar chateado com a situação, mas temos de olhar em frente e nunca esquecer que o que fizemos até aqui já foi muito bom.

 

[Laurent Resende]

Cesar same for me, I practiced a training session on Saturday with my personal server 2 of my teammates and the skin of one of them was invisible, I also noticed that the reflections of objects and billboards surrounding the track were processed in real time the games in the rain, which of course requires much more computation at the image and seeks to benefit from the system computer and video card with a Netcode, and code as " cheesy " than NetKar is certainly not a stranger to all these crashes.
I think simply abandon the option for rain this championship will minimize the risks, as Kunos has not solved the problem native to the simulation, let us not forget that the game engine is starting to really old, and that new versions of DirectX and other system files does not handle any more of the same video processing, it is also true for our video cards

FRENCH
pareil pour moi Cesar, j'ai pratiqué une seance d'entrainement sur mon server personnel Samedi avec 2 de mes coequipiers et le skin de l'un d'eux etait invisible, j'aie remarqué également que les reflections des objets et panneaux publicitaires entourant la piste étaient traités en temps réel par le jeux sous la pluie ,ce qui naturellement demande beaucoup plus de calcul au niveau de l'image et sollicite d'avantage le systeme du computer et de la carte video, avec un netcode, et un code aussi "foireux" que celui de NetKar ,c'est certain que ce n'est pas étranger à tout ces plantages.
je pense que tout simplement abandonner l'option pluie pour ce championnat serai minimiser les risques, tant que Kunos n'a pas solutionné ces probleme natifs au simu, n'oublions pas que le moteur du jeu commence a se faire vraiment très vieux ,et que les nouvelles versions directx et autres fichiers systeme ne gere plus du tout de la meme façon les traitements video, il en est également ainsi pour nos cartes video

 

[Laurent Resende]

Well guys is very sad to read all this reports, must be very hard to had a crash to desktop in a race like this and after all the work to prepare this.

Spa is a long track, plus the rain, maybe it force's to much the hardware and cause this troubles, if the race is going to be repeated, maybe is better to do it on dry.

I AGREE TOTALY SERGIO

 

[Cesar Ferrolho]

Bom, pelos vistos não fui o único com problemas... Na altura só queria era mandar o PC pela janela, lol
A ver vamos se se repete a corrida, era bom. É pena pq a chuva até me foi benéfica, parece q me adaptei melhor a ela.

 

[Claudio Gandolfi]

I think simply abandon the option for rain this championship will minimize the risks

Otherwise we could organize some full server tests before the races...
Rain is a great feature; give up without a chance would be a shame, imho

 

[Martin Oconnor]

As this was my first race in this league I don't have much of a say but I totally agree.I didn't have any computer crashes or incidents with other drivers,my only problem was intermittent framerate.this didn't happen to me before

 

[Laurent Resende]

reserve races in the rain at netkar club or there is no challenge for me I have nothing against the rain, my PB in the rain at Spa is in Config qualyfs 2.12.683 and 2.14. 950 in fastest lap of the race with an average config towers 2.16.5, the only problem being of course to stay on the track!!!!!! lol but by lifting slightly off the actual race and it should be possible
but I find that the risk of server crash or equipment in a league where there is a title at stake!!!!!
I understand the frustration that must have felt when the head is to have a race, 5 km from the finish on the last lap and that the server or hardware crash!! I guess no one wants anyone to feel that

FRENCH
reservons les courses sous la pluie au netkar club ou il n'y a pas d'enjeu, pour ma part je n'aie rien contre la pluie ,mon PB sous la pluie sur Spa est de 2.12.683 en config qualyfs et 2.14.950 en meilleur tour en config course avec une moyenne des tours en 2.16.5, le seul probleme étant bien sur de rester sur la piste !!!!!!lol mais en levant legerement le pied et en course reelle cela doit etre possible
mais je trouve que risquer les crash du server ou du materiel dans un championnat ou il y a un titre en jeu!!!!!
Je comprend la frustration que l'ont doit ressentir lorsque l'ont est en tete d'une course, a 5 km de l'arrivee dans le dernier tour et que le server ou le matériel crash !!!! personne je présume n'a envie de ressentir cela

 

[OliKanobi]

...

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Oliver. I have a quite powerful computer. And also from doing a bit of track creation I gained insight in texture and graphics in netKar. All tracks in this game are very very low quality compared to some other racing games. I am always over 300 fps in this game with maximum graphic settings and I can guarantee that this is not a fault by our own pc's. I'm sure the game didnt crash because of our graphic cards but by the game that does not work properly. The game should hold up and give us very poor framerates but not crash if this was the case.
Then if these bugs in the game disappear by lowering graphic settings, very good to find out indeed. But it still doesnt mean that the problem are on our end but within the game code.

It is unfair to not get the points I agree.. but then to be completely fair, it is not fair to not get points because the game throws you out either. And when this is present, points based on position is not correct for anyone because of all these bugs of unrealistic crashes (1 in the start) and the game crashing for several of us. It would not be serious to count scores at all in such a race.

Imagine a real race in F1 or F2, if we had a crash similar to the one in the start of this race where cars are flying in the air, many back to the pits, and the ones getting away just keeps racing away. This is not realistic or fair or correct race management.

Sure there is a title on the line, but it's a title made up much by chance so not really a title in a true sense either.

 

[Laurent Resende]

" To win without risk have triumph without glory "
All formulas are messed up for a race examinable course each team will suggest the best for her, which is normal, imagined as Team Managers I propose that the classification is that of the order of competitor crossing the white flag! !! lol for sure that Paul is the winner
but I do not because that would be just too unfair to the competitor who suckled hit by the crash Syndrome Spa

 

[Laurent Resende]

I resumed,
anyway any alternatives paraitrons unfair, and they are many: the rule of classification to 75 % of the race, one at 90 %, etc. etc.....
be a victim of an accident or fault is not in my opinion in this kind of exception because if nobody had any problems or server computer crash, the order of ranking would not change anything for them, only the crash of a technical problem arising is to review, in case the race director should make a decision!
I have not seen the replay of the race but if in 3 drivers are on arrival, there was 1 that during the race took a turn or more of delay resulting from accident, it is unfair it enjoys the number of points a podium that he would never under normal circumstances, it can be called in luck! but let me suggest that it can be called otherwise! !!!!!!!
Always for me the best alternatives are that everyone finds his account:
1 ) cancellation of the race
2) or redo the race

FRENCH
je reprend ,
de toutes façons toute les solutions alternatives paraitrons injustes , et ils y en a plusieurs: la regle du classement aux 75 % de la course, celle au 90%, etc etc ....
etre victime ou fautif d'un accident n'entre pas a mon avis dans ce genre d'exception car si personne n'avait rencontré de probleme de crash server ou computer, l'ordre du classement n'aurait rien changé pour eux , seul les crash découlant d'un probleme technique sont à réviser, dans le cas ou la direction de course devrait prendre une décision!
je n'aie pas vu le replay de la course mais si dans les 3 pilotes qui sont a l'arrivée , il y en a eu 1 qui pendant la course a pris un tour ou plusieurs de retard suite a un accident ,il est injuste qu'il beneficie du nombre de point d'un podium qu'il n'aurait jamais eu dans des circonstances normales, cela peut s'appeler de la chance !!mais permettez moi de penser que cela peut s'appeler autrement !!!!!!!!!!
toujours pour moi, les meilleures alternatives sont pour que tous le monde y trouve son compte :
1)annulation de la course
2)ou refaire la course

 

[Paul Hamwa]

Guys in the end I'm fine with the results how they are, it wasn't the first time we've all had netcode problems, and we all knew this was a risk when playing Netkar. I was a little emotional in the moment, but that's passed.

It's gonna sound corny, but I'm proud to have almost won without going off track! It's an acheivement just to make it to the finish!

On to the next race!

 

[Bjorn de Haas]

Guys im just home from work and what im reading is bad concerning nk pro
Ive made a choice that this race will not count and wont be rerun either.
I dont get it it seems t lack stability

I will also edit the amount of races done in the grid topic

 

[Andreas Löffler]

Ive made a choice that this race will not count and wont be rerun either.

Great, wir haben nicht gewonnen. Nachdem alle rumgeningelt haben. Da könn wir ja gleich aufhörn, wenn in dem Spiel eh nix funktioniert. Aber wenn Tobias rausfliegt oder ich ständig vom Server fliege zählts natürlich, wasn Quatsch.

 

[Gaetano Fichera]

Vedrò Gambero quello che posso fare! Forse sono impegnato quella sett!


Mi spiace cristoforo....cose che capitano. Con un netcode migliore sto gioco sarebbe quasi perfetto! Peccato....

 

[Bjorn de Haas]

jah ik ga ook niet rijden denk ik.. denk dat ikde laatse 2 races lekker skip