Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

I see you've been busy!

I did try my 209 with one of my LFEs but still left me unsatisfied. What i haven't tried is both LFEs and the 209. To do that would take a bit of engineering and adding more weight which I'm trying to keep to a minimum. Still playing around.

How did you try them? where they on the same channel and using crossover as well as EQ?

 

[Hiro Abe]

I tried same channel then separate. I'm invoking a basic config via my NU3000 (frequency and output level). I've never rearea gotten along with my 209. I'm somewhat resigned that it's just not providing the type of feedback i prefer. I still have my ADXs and going to give them another go.

 

[Mr Latte]

I tried same channel then separate. I'm invoking a basic config via my NU3000 (frequency and output level). I've never rearea gotten along with my 209. I'm somewhat resigned that it's just not providing the type of feedback i prefer. I still have my ADXs and going to give them another go.

You could limit the LFE to work from 5-60HZ and then have the TST operate from 30-100Hz +
That should help give both good bass and detail yet also limiting the full range each unit is pushed to work with. You then balance the volumes for each unit but apply EQ to suit or tune to your preference.

Possible with some tinkering, your going to find with effects like wheelslip or RPM that having the TST helps bring more detail than the LFE on its own.

 

[Hiro Abe]

I think my problem is that i just don't like the higher frequency feedback. Too buzzy. Maybe if i could mount it to my seat at the base of my spine, as you suggest, would work. Not willing to drill into my seat so that is out.. I'm going to first try my ADXs.

 

[Mr Latte]

I think my problem is that i just don't like the higher frequency feedback. Too buzzy. Maybe if i could mount it to my seat at the base of my spine, as you suggest, would work. Not willing to drill into my seat so that is out.. I'm going to first try my ADXs.

I no longer have the TST239 to compare with the T209.
I bought the T209 I have to help with testing/understanding how it operates as a budget unit to others.
It would be good to find out if the T239 has much more low-mid bass energy. This may make it more suitable than the T209 for a Dual Role usage. I know the T329 Gold and T429 Platinium certainly do produce better low bass.

TST tend to be quite strong in the 60-80Hz (regards buzz) so if you want use the EQ to actually reduce these but then boost the 20-40Hz on the unit. You may be able to get it more to your liking, lower the higher Hz on the soundcard (via its EQ) as this may help reduce the audible noise they make with harmonics/higher frequencies.


Please share a comparison of the ADX to the TST 209 if you get a chance.

 

[Hiro Abe]

TST tend to be quite strong in the 60-80Hz (regards buzz) so if you want use the EQ to actually reduce these but then boost the 20-40Hz on the unit. You may be able to get it more to your liking, lower the higher Hz on the soundcard (via its EQ) as this may help reduce the audible noise they make with harmonics/higher frequencies.

Kind of accomplished the same thing by limiting the frequency within ShakeIt. Anywho, I'll provide feedback (hah! see what i did there?! ) on my ADX vs the 209.

 

[Trans-Girl]

Can any one tell me if this amp is suitable to run 4off 4ohm dayton "dave" transducers through simvibe? Thanks..... https://www.gearsourceeurope.com/catalog/stockitem/australian-monitor-amis120-mixer-amplifier

 

[Mr Latte]

Kind of accomplished the same thing by limiting the frequency within ShakeIt. Anywho, I'll provide feedback (hah! see what i did there?! ) on my ADX vs the 209.

Do you mean by lowering the max frequency values used for effects?
If so its not quite the same thing as the settings for the effects are only "center values" and these do not take into account harmonics that are naturally generated as well from the various effects.

I don't have my monitoring hardware connected at present (looking to upgrade it) but when we monitor the actual channels it gives us a full picture for what Hz and dB are going to the tactile. I do want to spend some time in the near future looking more deeply into Shakeit to see how the various options alter the output in more detail.

With a proper crossover control however when we set the frequency limit and the slope, for example, a Butterworth filter with a 24dB slope then it will ensure thats what the tactile unit gets.

 

[Grumpybeard]

I created another thread regards mounting of BK Mini LFEs, and then found this! Lots of great info regards testing and setup, and I will try the software alternatives to Simvive.

May I however ask an even more basic question - wrt transducer placement on 8020 (v. Rigid using 160x40 in readiness for SFX100 at some point), would you advise mounting BK LFEs directly onto profile, or via plates or some other isolating solution? Have 4 transducers currently in simvibe chassis mode. Many thanks

 

[nolive721]

hello.I hope its the right place for that discussion.

I am having a JETSEAT KW908 on order from Andreshop. that one https://andres.shop/jetseat/11-92-j...r-orange/30-additional_software_included-none

anybody using it that would provide advice on set-up?I know it can be connected through the audio or USB with the software simshaker wheel, that I bought, and hear that through USB provide better "realism" and immersion but looking for experiences of simracing drivers here
thanks

 

[anton_Chez]

@Grumpybeard I have mine via plates. I think it allows the piston to move that little bit more freely thus giving you better feedback. I actually mine connected to a plate AND the rail running under my seat. Plate on the bottom and then the upright slots are bolted to the profile also. That's if I am remembering correctly....

 

[Hiro Abe]

Though i agree with @anton_Chez regarding mounting plates, if you employ vibration isolation, you can mount directly to 8020 with excellent results. As i mentioned several posts earlier, i got serious with vibration isolation and it has made a world of difference. I now have a single spine of 8020 under my seat with 2 BK-LFEs and 2 ADXs directly bolted to the extrusion. When i was putting this together, i was surprised how much feedback i was getting even from a single ADX considering how much less energy it has compared to my full size LFEs.

 

[anton_Chez]

Just to clarify, my seat sits on 4 x pads, mounted in between the profile it's bolted to and the seat.

 

[Grumpybeard]

Though i agree with @anton_Chez regarding mounting plates, if you employ vibration isolation, you can mount directly to 8020 with excellent results. As i mentioned several posts earlier, i got serious with vibration isolation and it has made a world of difference. I now have a single spine of 8020 under my seat with 2 BK-LFEs and 2 ADXs directly bolted to the extrusion. When i was putting this together, i was surprised how much feedback i was getting even from a single ADX considering how much less energy it has compared to my full size LFEs.

Hi Hiro, thanks for that, do you have a pic you can share please? Did you already have holes on base of your seat to fix the 8020 (I have Sparco Rev with holes only at sides, but imagine I can easily drill 2 more?)

 

[Grumpybeard]

@Grumpybeard I have mine via plates. I think it allows the piston to move that little bit more freely thus giving you better feedback. I actually mine connected to a plate AND the rail running under my seat. Plate on the bottom and then the upright slots are bolted to the profile also. That's if I am remembering correctly....

A pic of mount and any link to pads would also help me visualise, if possible please Anton. Thanks!

 

[Hiro Abe]

@Grumpybeard I've been meaning to post a pic or two of my latest set up. Will try to do so tonight. Stay tuned!

 

[Grumpybeard]

@Grumpybeard I've been meaning to post a pic or two of my latest set up. Will try to do so tonight. Stay tuned!

Thanks Hiro, would love to see that before I start drilling holes in my seat! I have an idea but.....

 

[RCHeliguy]

If anyone is interested in building your own tactile amplifier I did the following for my 4 x Aura transducers, and it has been working for almost a year now. My old Yamaha AV amp kept shutting off on me.

I guarantee that this is NOT audiophile quality, but for low frequency bumps it works fine.
I also wouldn't suggest this if you aren't comfortable wiring electronics together.

I did this because on paper it looked like it should work. It seemed cheap and I built it just to see if it would work. So far it's worked fine.

400W PS for $23.
4 channel x 100W per channel Class D amplifier board $49.90.
2 x Level Controllers $7.69 each.

eBay: 400W 11A 36V AC to DC Single Output Switching Power Supply SMPS S-400-36 For LED
Parts Express: Sure AA-AB33184 4x100W TDA7498 Class-D Amplifier Board
Parts Express: Axxess AALC 2-Ch Remote Level Controllers

The Class D amplifier wants 39V and the PS had a pot that could be adjusted to turn the 36V up to 39V.

The Monster On/Off switch is just something I had laying around

It's a little ghetto, but it works. I've added a 4th output to it.
I may repackage it now that I'm building up a P1 Cockpit.

 

[Mr Latte]

Just some of my own views on this, though having someone go through a process of actually comparing installations with 8020 would be interesting.

Where do the vibrations go, what path can they take?
I believe, If you install to the cockpits main frame section, or even to that via a plate, then ask yourself what directions the vibrations can flow from its point of installation. Look at the vibrations like water, in that any connecting or adjoining surfaces it will flow into from its installed path. Then follow the path it needs to take to reach your body region, taking into account also the other paths it can flow or has to flow to get to it.


Efficiency & Improved Detail
What I believe, is the best way to do this is have the seat and pedal regions isolated from the main frame section. This can be done with various sizes and even qualities of rubber isolators as well as other vibration control materials.

By doing this you are trying to contain better the energy of the tactile unit within these now "isolated sections."

Mechanical Leverage
The tactile plate idea, has nothing to do with isolation but to do with adding possible mechanical leverage that can increase the felt energy of the unit at the same wattage. It also can make adding the tactile simple and allow the plate to be positioned in different locations easily to test for comparisons.

Ideally, I presume most will, want the seat/pedal sections to get the primary energy and detail from the units. Then, you should consider having these as the first path the tactile has to travel through. If we isolate these from the main frame sections then this also helps improve/maintain the energy within the seat/pedal sections. What we do need to perhaps consider or take some care with is "channel crosstalk" in that we should also try to ensure L/R based effects are felt first/most on the appropriate side if indeed the user is installing stereo based channels. What is the point of having stereo based channels, if they both mix very easily and they are not highlighting positional placed effects. So keep this in mind that we can in some cases split the seat/pedal sections to reduce or limit how the energy from the left/right-hand sides can mix. Chances are if you do it will help with the stereo sensations.

People seem to look at the Simvibe CM type installation and think the units have to represent "wheel locations" and be on the 4 corners of the main cockpit frame.


Plates/Brackets
These can apply mechanical leverage, in that the tactile unit feels stronger at the same wattage. What could be done by people is discuss/show tests comparing directly mounted units to mounting via a plate. While the mechanical leverage may produce stronger output, can we achieve a similar result with just increased wattage?

I would expect that "mechanical leverage" is produced more with piston based units like (Buttkicker or Earthquake) as the motion/weight of the moving piston may help generate the leverage. Other units that don't have internal/heavy pistons may not show as much increase in output.

More POWA - Pre-Amplification
If we sometimes seek more gain, then this can also be achieved with pre-amplification of the source prior to the main amplification. Having this results in requiring less primary amplification or achieving a comfortable strength/energy output for the tactile with the amp being much less strained.

I have played around with this via different hardware approaches. Which simply lets the user easily increase/decrease the pre-amplification source output level. I found it appealing, to be able to do this directly from the seat for each channel and a handy way to control volume levels. Also without awkward software menus be it via windows, the soundcard options or even the tactile software.

Just simply much handier for easy access and not having to get up/down to alter amp volumes neither between playing sims or cars and also great to be able to reach down and do by hand if also in VR.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm definitely interested in what works and doesn't since I'm building a new setup right now.

I've been using SimVibe in a 2-3 transducer configuration and I'm moving to 4 transducers with an NLRv3 motion rig. I'll be curious to see how the NLR software works driving the transducers vs SimVibe.

My seat is out of a Volkswagon Passat and the seat base is isolated in suspension.
This was my first iteration with a single Aura Transducer mounted directly below the seat base. It worked reasonably well, In my second iteration I'm using two transducers mounted via the same 4 bolts but to a larger 1/2" plywood board vs. the smaller 3/4" board. The combination of 2 transducers and the added lever arm should increase the power quite a bit.

In my first iteration I had a single transducer mounted directly to the body of the load cell on my CS V3 pedals. This was partly isolated. My plan for the second iteration was to mount two transducers directly to the 40x40 underneath my pedals on the P1 Cockpit. However based on this discussion it sounds like that may not work quite as well as the seat.

I also tried to mount a transducer to my shifter, however that became an issue with the gear sensors misfiring and taking the car in and out of gear while I was playing, so I abandoned that idea.