Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

I have been playing with shake it the last few days and its got some awesome features. I cannot seem to get the vibration tuning sorted out on assetto corsa. Even small bumps result in huge audio signal outputs. I have tried increasing the threshold but it does not seem to help. Does anyone have an assetto corsa profile I can load up or any advice.

What I am looking to do is essentially increase the "filtering threshold" as its called on SSW so I feel bigger bumps only. Right now it feels like driving on a dirt road no matter how high i set the threshold in shake it...
 
There's probably something else triggering it. What else do you run enabled in the software? You can try reducing the gain also but if your other effects are at a reasonable level then this would also reduce them. Threshold seems to work well for me but also try reducing the feedback factor.
 
I found great aluminum bars at an industrial aluminum cutting facility, they had huge piles of waste pieces from cutting orders, they sold me the aluminum for 2 euros per kilo, I found exactly the right length and thicknesses for my ‘under seat mounting bracket’ it is the hardest aluminum alloy available, which is actually quite heavy, but stiff like steel.

The bars that will run along the underside of the seat to the back:
IMG-7717.jpg


The plate that will hold the Concerts (12 cm x 25 cm, 10 mm thick) to attach and act as a lever:

IMG-7719.jpg


I will try to mount the Buttkicker Concert this way directly under the seat and hope the seat’s side mounting brackets offer some form of isolation from the frame.. The pedal deck will also get one Concert.

To start off I hope this is enough to feel engine RPM everywhere effectively. If needed I will add the other two Concerts, otherwise I could add one to the shifter rail, or keep them as backup (or for cinema under the couch) or sell them.

I do not want to overpower the SFX100 with too much information, that would be a waste of a very capable motion system, I much like the subtle road texture details the SFX100 can portray, so I want the Buttkickers to be for engine RPM only and just identifiable, not screaming loud. I’m sorry Mr Latte, this will not be the kind of extensive tactile+SFX100 experimentation you were hoping for. I’m just too happy with what the SFX100 delivers regarding detail. But of course, I might change my mind through the process ;)
 
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Hugo, it's up to you what you want to do with your own rig, we all have different ideas perhaps in what we want. Or how far we bother, regards experimentation, testing or pioneering in this form of immersion towards achieving something more.

Im not sure 10mm alu plate will be the best solution for achieving leverage, seems too thick and solid to cause much vertical vibration from the operation/leverage of the moving piston but I cant say for certain.

You will find that plates used by BK or Earthquake are much thinner. Probably between 4-6mm. The EarthQuake PB-1 plate is "S" shaped and seems to be one that would offer the most "leverage".

Although keep in mind leverage may bring its own issues with piston pang. I am not an engineer or scientist but a factor between metals like aluminum/steel may be to do with the "rate of vibration decay". in how different materials can have variations regards the amount of vibration they absorb and how fast these vibrations can travel in the differing materials. I state again, Buttkicer do not use aluminum, perhaps for a reason, they opt with mild steel and the thickness they use is possibly just ideal for their units?

Anyways, this is why I opted to use their own plates. Testing different things will enable you to perhaps discover for yourself what works out or feels best. More input from 8020 owners in what they discovered would be interesting but few people seem to go with the higher end tactile or has their been to my knowledge any such group testing/discussions from community members working together on how best to be installing this level of tactile to 8020 based rigs.

SFX & Enchanced Tactile
What I had hoped to see was someone giving good feedback in combining tactile wih the SFX 100.
Sorry to hear this does not seem to interest you, yet I find it bewildering why some are not more interested. Here we finally have an affordable motion that is not restricted like the VR3 with the weight of additional tactile or materials and clearly is limited compared to other solutions in what it offers for tactile immersion.

I just think you or indeed others should try some testing with what Shakeit offers in effects and controls to what SFX already provides. Of course with the bigger tactile or indeed Dual Role type installation. From what I have seen and assume, their are worthwhile additional effects and controls offered in other tactile solutions that go beyond SFX and Simvibe which it seems most SFX owners mention using or have used in the past. Yet it appears people like Henk or yourself without even properly testing these alternative options, dismiss them and decide to just stick with Simvibe and just use the tactile for engine etc.

Mind Made Up?
Perhaps, its easy to form an idea now of what you think will suit and combine well with the SFX100. Personally, I think only engine/gear enhancement is limiting the true potential usage with the large and powerful tactile units. I say this based on my own tactile experience with exploration and testing.

I really feel from my own experiences anyways that wheelslip and G-Force based effects bring lots of immersion and in my view with combined motion should be really good additions which as mentioned before software like Simvibe does not offer.

Bringing Advantages Not Disadvantages
You talk about overpowering, that's the opposite of what I'm seeking. Adding more effects does not necessarily mean we then have to lose detail. My own testing and exploration over the last few years often shared here is a testament to that. Control and best usage of the frequencies for effects can be cleverly incorporated and good detail maintained with multiple effects, "Dual Role" is one method to go beyond the limits of a single tactile unit. Separating engine based effects from positional based effects is another example, combining both is also possible as my own installation shows.

Clever Usage
SFX being used to operate specific effects (bumps etc) seems ideal to then incorporate 4 corner based tactile units (seat/pedals) to be utilised for G-Force / Wheel Slip positional feedback. This bringing both L/R and F/R effect sensations not possible with SFX. Even with this a user could then if wanting, still have centralised mono units for engine/gear role. Or they could have varied car profiles that in some cases use the main 4 units with the central units for increased engine enhancement etc.

With Shakeit the developer recently added a requested feature I wanted. This was to enable any effect to easily be selected to whatever channels the user wanted it on and with its own controlled intensity. So its very easy with this to play around with options in how some effects are distributed.

Fun In Discovery?
Really such combinations need some playing around with testing. I had hoped that at some stage we could have some users with the higher end tactile hardware working on or offering effects with specifically created/tuned profiles. Well in my view this certainly would be a way for a user to then determine what they personally prefer or how they want to incorporate additional tactile with the SFX100.

Missed Potential
Having the additional tactile installed at least from my perspective can indeed be used to bring more effects immersion possibilities. One of these possibilities, I really have an interest in is having greater variation in the character/feel of different car classes or specific cars. Having the tactile work with the motion to create more involving experiences and these differentiate more in how they represent our favorite or most driven cars.

Possibilities, that could bring excellent detailing and enjoyment for the additional effects sensations from the leading software options. Or if preferred, just focused on working towards using effects to also combine in conjunction with and "enhance" some of the current effects SFX may already offer.

Clearly, my own ideas/goals for tactile and how far I will go towards these are very different to others. Few perhaps have the same interest or desire and that's okay but I do not see many builds try to approach or expand the possibilities for combining high-level motion with high-level tactile.

Nothing Ventured - Nothing Gained?
My approach to this has been, not to just assume anything but go out and discover with testing and experimentation in hope to push the boundaries. Have every main option available to compare or combine. I still have a lot to do but excited to see what potential I can achieve with my own build, thats where I need to focus my attention and not on other peoples builds or what/how they should incorporate tactile into them.

Wish you well with whatever you decide to do for your own rig.
 
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@daikichikun

Here is the basis for the concept I have for my seat tactile and using multiple body regions for specific channels. Experimentation with how we can utilise different effects will be possible and even allow "car profiles" to vary in how some effect circumstances are presented over the channels.

Some people may only want to incorporate a mono based or "Dual Role" configuration using the (Center/LFE) channels. This would mean you may likely want to use less effects (dropping directional based effects) or to test having some like (Acceleration/Deceleration G-Load - Wheelslip) operate in mono with the engine/gear based effects that are typically used. Its also not a problem to have made available profiles that offer more or fewer effects operational.

This way it gives you options to choose from to suit your own preferences as to what effects to incorporate.



For some effect sensations, we may want to use all the channels to deliver greater emphasis or we may have an effect using different layers/settings for the (stereo/outer channels) yet also deliver a different sensation via the (central mono channels).

These are possibilities we can have in creating more varied "car profiles" and to go beyond relying on having just the typical done thing with a "general profile" for all cars or specific sim. Lots of people do this with Simvibe etc, but such then relies mainly on the "telemetry values" of different cars to be the main elements that bring alterations in how different cars tactile sensations may indeed feel. My intention is to go much further than this.

I believe with updates and features coming to Simhub / Shakeit will allow even greater flexibility towards effects and channel control. To enable more creativity towards pushing the boundaries in what we can achieve with sensations like engine effects or indeed others.

Part of this is by it bringing improved control to how different channels and each "effects - layers" operation is controlled, combined, displaced as intended for the "profiles character" being made to suit perhaps a specific "type/class" of car or just to the users own preferences.

One other factor to keep in mind is that with "effects deployment" we can have an effect operate over fewer channels but with greater gain. Or we can have an effect operate with less gain but with a greater spread in using more channels. These two instances do not feel the same but it is another way to bring greater variation for different profiles in how we may want some effects to be represented or operate.


Some Examples / Potential Scenarios
 
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To all, but more specifically Mr. Latte, I just wanted to start off by saying THANK YOU for all of the information and expertise you have dedicated to this thread so far. I have recently bought into the whole Tactile idea and boy I can't believe I didnt look into this sooner. But for those reading, don't be fooled, it will start as what you may think is a cheap add-on and than you find yourself hooked and wanting more!

Anyways, love all the pages i've read so far, and going forward looking to people's feedback and suggestions on ShakeIt settings as i myself have been messing it with lately. At the moment I'm starting out with the pucks installed directly on to my seat, 2 for left/right focused on bumps, and looking to buy one more for other effects.
 
What is recommend for 3 shaker? I have simhub shakitbasd and ssw programs.
2x 100w shaker 1x buttkicker gamer 2. One amp behringer 1000. How is the best way to srt this UP?
Two shakers on the seat and the gamer on pedals?
 
Tip for rseat N1 users with the rseat ButtKicker mount shown below:
rseat-n1-buttkicker-upgrade-kit-black-900x900.jpg


With the two bars connecting the left side to the right side, there is no way you can discriminate left-to-right side vibrations. Even with my hand on a transducer, I couldn't tell you which of the two transducers fired.

I simply hack sawed this mount into two separate pieces. Now since the transducers are on a big lever arm, the vibration is much more intense and easily discriminated between left and right. Cheap improvement with big time results. The photo below shows two ButtKicker mini LFEs mounted underneath the seat -- it attaches to the back sides of the vertical plates holding the seat.

jj022f.jpg
 
So right now I am using two of the following units: Dayton Audio TT25-8 PUCKs
They are rated 20-80 Hz but the amp i am using to push them today seems to be rated at 40-2000. I do get responses at 30hz but very minimal. Should i really look into a different amp to get the lower frequencies to respond better? Am i missing a lot of nice details below 35hz with these little guys?

Here's the amp i am using (I know it's old): https://www.cnet.com/products/rca-rt2600/

BTW if i did go with something for these guys, for now considering something like the following (budget as i just spent a ton on a new wheel base system): https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Amp...1-2-spons&keywords=Nobsound+class+d+amp&psc=1
 
Increasing the response range will only come from changing tactile units themselves, not the amp. The amp provides the power but the tactile units provide the frequency so you can only filter frequency getting to the tactile, not inject it. If a unit is only capable of outputting 30hz you cannot make it go lower by changing amps. If a unit is capable of 200hz yet you only want it to respond to > 50hz then you can use a low pass filter to remove some of the range, if the amp supports that feature.
 
@scottiedawg66
NIce video, glad to see you experimenting and indeed tactile can be enjoyed on a fairly affordable budget, then gradually expanded as happens so often.

Keep in mind these (iNuke / NX) amps by Behringer actual volume dials alters the (input signal strength) for the source and the gain setting within the software alters the actual output gain to the amplification.

So a user has to take into account the combination of:

A: Soundcard output volume
B: The amps input gain control (via front dials)
C: The amps output gain (via software)


The DSP features let you set the Ohm and wattage limit for each unit installed.
So it would make more sense to have the larger unit on channel A with 300 watts limit and then a smaller unit on Channel B with its recommended wattage of 50W-100W.

Dual Mono mode can be used for this, the difference with it and Stereo mode is that with Dual Mono each channel can have its own settings for all the DSP based features instead of one set of controls altering both the A/B channels together which suits more if two identical units are used and for something like stereo L/R based sources.

Having 9dB at the crossover seems a bit excessive as it boosts ALL frequencies but you may be running with reduced input gain or a lower soundcard level. Different soundcards can also have varying output strengths. You don't want to have an excessive input level for the source going into the amp but at the same time finding a balance with the input/output levels. You can then use the PEQ to alter the character of the output of the unit to help trim potential reverb or peak frequencies and also to some degree then boost others that suit being boosted. You will learn and see how the "Q" factor alters the width of the frequencies that get boosted/cut. The visual gfx make it simple to learn.

Simhub is indeed amazing and everyone with tactile should try it out.
Can't wait to its next major update is ready and give it more coverage with a proper overview in what it offers. The potential it is going to bring when additional layers are possible along with other features will greatly enable us to control/build more detailed effects.
 
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thanks for all the insight I need to play with the EQ more for sure. I run the gain high because my factory sound card is W E A K. I seem to get much stronger effect from high gain and lower amp volume settings... Have tried different output ports with the same result....

As for setting impedance i don't see anything about that in the manual and have never had to do that on an amp previously? Have I overlooked something in the manual?

Also for outputs here is what the manual states, sure looks like its 300W per channel at 4 ohms.
 

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thanks for all the insight I need to play with the EQ more for sure. I run the gain high because my factory sound card is W E A K. I seem to get much stronger effect from high gain and lower amp volume settings... Have tried different output ports with the same result....

As for setting impedance i don't see anything about that in the manual and have never had to do that on an amp previously? Have I overlooked something in the manual?

Also for outputs here is what the manual states, sure looks like its 300W per channel at 4 ohms.

The load setting on the configuration screen is used to set the ohm and this then alters how the peak limiter is used. For some reason when saving a profile it does not highlight the ohm that was saved. Its possible on amps with much more output than the tactile/speaker used that a user can damage their hardware if they use excessive watts or the wrong ohms.

So this feature is a nice touch to help ensure the wattage and ohm output is set to suit the tactile unit used. I believe its also possible to have different ohms for the A/B channels which is something most amps don't support. For example a 2ohm BK Gamer unit with a 4ohm BK Advance.

If considering a better soundcard the Xonar DGX is a good affordable soundcard and Creative Omni is one I use for USB.
 
Thanks I found the impedance setting and set it to 4 ohm. Any eq advice?

Use PC audio and test frequencies via a frequency generator.
Determine how your used units compare with various frequencies.
Potentially try to boost some you may like to try and increase or even tone down
Doing this will help better configure your unit's operation.

As highlighted several times in this thread one possible feature is to also use the crossover for temporary tests. This lets you discover how good or bad your units operate with the very lowest Hz below say 20Hz and also those above 80Hz

Set it to only output what Hz range you want (eg 80-130Hz) and then test frequency tests or even individual effects via Shakeit with the Hz used to operate within the Crossover you are using.

Doing this can let you determine how well your units perform with certain Hz ranges. You can then save profiles on the iNuke to compare the Shakeit effect operating with or without additional calibration. This may include PEQ settings.

With some messing around you should be able to make some improvements to suit your taste/preference. With lesser tactile you will discover the "usable" frequency range that works well is restricted and thats one of the limitations they bring compared to superior or higher end models.

Feel free to share your own findings and opinions you have.
 
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