Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[MacRozie]

Wondering how well they would transmit rumbling with massive brake pedals and driving shoes, reviewers saying it's pretty strong that they never use them at full force, my past experience with similar contraption on Fanatec CSP v3 was quite underwhelming though.

That’s one reason why I mentioned I drive barefoot. If I don’t have these cranked up, I wouldn’t feel much. I don’t think I’d feel them at all with shoes on. I’ll note that the rumblers you linked are probably more powerful than the Xbox controller rumblers I use and only have one spinning weight on one side (vs 2). It’s possible that pre-made kit is a bit stronger than mine. Still happy with mine — without shoes

 

[MarkModdy]

Speaking of another option for receiving feedback.
Anyone here with Sim 3D Pedal Rumble Kit, what's your experience?
There are few reviews available, feedback seems quite positive.

I have a set and they are really great!

I have them on Heusinkveld ultimates+ with HRS pedal fronts and wear shoes (sim hounds) and have them turned down a little as they are strong… so yes you can feel them on heavy pedals.

I would say the real reference of how good they are is the current wait time for delivery… Calvin, of Sim3D, is snowed under with orders… and that’s some proof of how good they are!

I run mine with SRS software as I also have the wind sim from him… this controls both the pedals and wind… Simhub works my Tactile…

To answer your question about feel, the upgrade he made from version 1 to v2, with more powerful motors, and dual spinners on each motor, greatly increased the strength of the feedback felt through my pedals.

 

[MacRozie]

I have a set and they are really great!

I have them on Heusinkveld ultimates+ with HRS pedal fronts and wear shoes (sim hounds) and have them turned down a little as they are strong… so yes you can feel them on heavy pedals.

I would say the real reference of how good they are is the current wait time for delivery… Calvin, of Sim3D, is snowed under with orders… and that’s some proof of how good they are!

I run mine with SRS software as I also have the wind sim from him… this controls both the pedals and wind… Simhub works my Tactile…

To answer your question about feel, the upgrade he made from version 1 to v2, with more powerful motors, and dual spinners on each motor, greatly increased the strength of the feedback felt through my pedals.

I didn’t notice the dual spinners until I revisited their site due to this thread. That has to be a huge improvement over the Xbox motors I use. I might even try to track down new motors like that.

 

[avatariogaruda]

I have a set and they are really great!

I have them on Heusinkveld ultimates+ with HRS pedal fronts and wear shoes (sim hounds) and have them turned down a little as they are strong… so yes you can feel them on heavy pedals.

I would say the real reference of how good they are is the current wait time for delivery… Calvin, of Sim3D, is snowed under with orders… and that’s some proof of how good they are!

I run mine with SRS software as I also have the wind sim from him… this controls both the pedals and wind… Simhub works my Tactile…

To answer your question about feel, the upgrade he made from version 1 to v2, with more powerful motors, and dual spinners on each motor, greatly increased the strength of the feedback felt through my pedals.

I also have these, they are one of my most cherished purchases for my Rig. Unfortunately I have had several different Sim gear purchases arrive broken or non-functional, my Sim3d rumble kit arrived non-functional as well. The difference was it took a month to get fanatec to reply and replace my advanced paddle module and rim, where-as...

I reached out on the Sim3D discord at like 2am london time hoping another user would assist, INSTEAD, calvin answered and offered a phone call! He called me from Germany (4:00am there time) from a convention hotel and walked me through fixing the kit and got it working. Afterwards, we chatted for hours. One of if not the best customer service experiences of my life.

For the support/community/peace-of-mind alone these are worth 2x the asking price...

The only part that sucks is that he is like 4 months behind on orders and because these are 3D printed (even with a whole farm of 3D printers and a belt style printer) there is no fast way to make parts and keep up the level of quality he makes his stuff, unless he starts injection molding these, then you will just have to be patient.

I have the 2 pedal (brake and Accel) kit installed on my Fanatec v3 inverted pedals. They are amazing.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Funny that every time Fanatec is mentioned, link to their site is automatically added.
$Ka-ching$

 

[avatariogaruda]

Funny that every time Fanatec is mentioned, link to their site is automatically added.
$Ka-ching$

Someone should hack the sites code and update the auto-link to make it redirect to the frequent/latest horror story/ies of people trying to get support from them.

Don't get me wrong I love my DD wheel, but I'm SOOOO glad there is competition now, hopefully it gets them to step up as they loose marketshare.

 

[feraligators]

I’ve got a couple aurasounds to use on my seat.

Would it be better to have both under the seat in a L/R configuration or one in the back and one on the bottom?

 

[Hoernle]

I didn’t notice the dual spinners until I revisited their site due to this thread. That has to be a huge improvement over the Xbox motors I use. I might even try to track down new motors like that.

I build such a pedal rumble kit myself but also with these small Xbox rumble motors. I tried to track down the motors used in the sim3d kit but couldn't find them. Let me know if you find it.

 

[Moonland]

Some questions for the guys here with experience with the Clark Synthesis TST's and using them in combination with Buttkickers.

To my understanding the recommendation is to isolate the seat and pedals, and use a set of a buttkicker for the lowest frequencies in conjunction with a TST for higher frequencies.
This seems logical to me and I plan to go this route.

My initial goal is to get more immersion when racing. To try extend the feedback I'm feeling in my arms from my DD1, to feeling something believable in my body and feet also.

I don't really have a strict budget to work with, but I tend to go for solutions that are the most bang for the buck, or to avoid spending excess money for diminishing returns.

I am thinking of first buying TST's since they seem to provide the most accuracy and frequency range to play with. Then I would maybe get buttkickers if the TST's feel lacking.

The problem is, is that I have no reference point in understanding what performance I would get with any type or number of TST's and how their choice would affect the need of using buttkickers with them.

In Europe for the same price (~700€) I could get:

• 1 x 690€ TST329
• 2 x 360€ TST239
• 4 x 170€ TST209

My questions:

• Is the TST209 a waste of time? Is the TST329 overkill?
• Are the higher end TST's worth the 2x or 4x price?
• Should I prioritize the number of channels with lower end TST's or the higher performance of a fewer number of higher end TST's?
• Would using higher end TST's eliminate the need for using buttkickers with them?

My initial plan (leaving two channels available for upgrading additional TST/Buttkicker):

• Seat:
  • 1 x TST239
• Pedals:
  • 1 x TST209
• Soundcard:
  • StarTech.com 7.1 USB Sound Card
• Amplifier:
  • 1 x EPQ304

What would you recommend to start with to get tactile for my bucket seat and pedals?

 

[anton_Chez]

I have only used the 239 and the 429's. I probably would not bother with the 209's, I think for our use case the 239 is the bare minimum to make it worth your while. Not sure where you're getting your pricing from but that seems a little excessive compared to what I have seen. From what I have head the 209's are almost comparable to a BST-1 unit, which is much cheaper and much easier to source.

I also think the EPQ-304 is not powerful enough to power these units. You want at least 100W per channel for a TST. Something like an NX1000 would power two of them easily, no matter which variety you went for.

 

[Moonland]

I have only used the 239 and the 429's. I probably would not bother with the 209's, I think for our use case the 239 is the bare minimum to make it worth your while. Not sure where you're getting your pricing from but that seems a little excessive compared to what I have seen. From what I have head the 209's are almost comparable to a BST-1 unit, which is much cheaper and much easier to source.

I also think the EPQ-304 is not powerful enough to power these units. You want at least 100W per channel for a TST. Something like an NX1000 would power two of them easily, no matter which variety you went for.

Thanks for the reply, I am looking at the prices from audiophonics.fr. Does not seem like there is a lot of other options in the EU delivering to Finland. Where are they cheaper?

I thought about going with the 239 for the seat, which I assume would benefit from more powerful components. Then use the 209 for the pedals, which probably needs less.

I would surely straight go for the stronger units like the 329 or 429 if the prices were a bit more reasonable, or if there was some good comparison data demonstrating their worth.

You are probably right about the amp.

 

[anton_Chez]

You don't need 429's. I have 3 but I would never have had them if I didn't find them used for a great deal. I do think that 239 is the minimum to bother with. The pedals needing less is a bit of a misnomer, since you can feel the seat units A LOT more than the pedal mounted unit, at least the way I have it. So if you can find a pair of 239's ( I am selling one but I am in Australia so it might not work out very well for overseas buyers) and then combine those with a couple of large BK units, you'll be set.

Planning ahead, I'd go for an NX1000 for the TST's and an NX3000 for a pair of BK's. You don't need the DSP versions, that would save you some money as well.

The prices I normally quote from for brand new units is Parts Express. They normally have 429's for $699 USD which is the most expensive unit (that's useful for us).

 

[ssherwood]

Hi all - I'm new to Tactile Immersion and have spent quite some time trying to gather as much knowledge from this thread as possible before putting a post in here in hope to avoid wasting too much of your time.

My rig setup -
Pro SimRig PSR1 (similar to P1-X) w Sparco bucket
SC2 base
Fanatec V3's

So my general understanding of tactile immersion at the 'higher' end is, invest in quality equipment, avoid the 4x corner setup, and isolate your seat and pedals.
With quality equipment being units that provide frequency ranges that can meet your needs of individual effects, or, multiple units to cover multiple frequency ranges for a single effect - I believe this is referred to as build up of layers?

With that being said, my original plan was to isolate my seat and install 2x BST-1 positioned underneath in a L/R configuration. These would be ideally bolted to the seat as local as possible, if not directly to the seat.
I would use the Nobsound 100w amps to power these, as the BST-1 units are only 50w each.
Followed up with 2x Dayton DAEX32EP-4 up front, 1 on the Brake pedal and 1 on the Throttle pedal.
These would also be powered by a 2ch Nobsound amp, as these exciters are only 40w.

Now I have been reading the recent posts regarding Sim3d Pedal Rumble Kit. I currently have the V3's with motors on which are inadequate for my needs.
My question here is, would 2x Dayton exciters do a better job than this Sim3d Rumble Kit? Anyone with experience in both setups?

As I write this I have now changed my spec to 2x BK Mini LFE for the seat - unsure on what confiuration is best for these? 1 underneath 1 behind / 1 left side 1 right side / 2 underneath L/R.
I will have to invest in a better amp of course, and may look into exciters installed in the seat in the future, but for now my limiation will be cash flow.
I'm still thinking 2x exciters bolted/stuck directly to both pedals, rather than a larger unit bolted underneath.

Cash flow being the ultimate decider in what I purchase and in what order, I don't want to be spending more than £500 as my initial outlay to start my tactile immersion journey.

Any thoughts of advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[ssherwood]

The rig in question ^^

 

[stigs2cousin]

The exciters work well on the pedals but are prone to damage, especially by the Simhub test tone.

As you have to fabricate a mount anyway consider using a "grown up" bassshaker like a BST-2. This type works well on my HSV Sprints, not shure if the Fanatecs are spaced wide enough for them.

For amps, have you considered (vintage) AV amps with 5.1 ext.in input?
I use one for game audio and one for tactile, quite cheap because of their age and till now reliable (which I now probably have jinxed)

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

prone to damage, especially by the Simhub test tone.

IMO, that is an indication of excessive amplifier gain and low effects gains.
If peak effects signals are less than Simhub test tone, dynamic range is being forfeited.

Otherwise, I agree about BST-2 and old surround receivers.
Folks seemingly underappreciate that the U.S. FTC established stringent rating rules
for consumer audio power 45 years ago that do not apply to
"commercial" units (e.g. Behringer) and modules with separate power supplies.
Consequently, a 100W/channel AV amp likely delivers more real power
than products weirdly claiming output greater than their power supplies' ratings.

 

[ssherwood]

@stigs2cousin
No probably don't have the width available for BST-2 - believe they are over 100mm in diameter.
I'm actually now looking at Calvin's Rumble Kit which are basically more powerful V3's rumble motors.
Seems to be only great things said about them, plus they are a fraction of the weight and size of something like you suggest.
Still researching my options here though.

Regarding the amp, yes I am actually exploring vintage amps right now so may have a few questions on these too.

1) 7.1 - does this mean I can run u channels or 8 at RMS power?

2) I'm looking at a Onkyo TX-SR605 which says as per the picture, Rated Output 7x 140w at 6 ohms.
If the speakers used are 4 ohms, does this change the RMS output at all? And would the amp still provide enough power?
Also, if say only 4 speakers were connected, could it provide more power than 140w, or is each channel limited to that?

3) any recommendations for good vintage amps that can be had for a bargain, ie. Under £100?

 

[ssherwood]

Another question -

If the amp is putting out say 140w per channel, would there be volume settings for each channel on the amp?
If I have different size shakers, then I will need to adjust the output power on the amp to suit each shaker right?

 

[stigs2cousin]

The BST2 has apr 130 mm Overall actually.

The .1 channel is a passthrough for the aktive subwoofer, so you cozld use 7 amplified channels on a 7.1 amp.

Be carefull to look for a diskrete 7.1 input!

About the powerquestions ask someone more knowledgeable, I've been winging that part.

MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

Separate channel setting can be found on highend receivers like my Yamaha RX-V 1900 that I use for home cinema.

But you don't need them as all this setting are done in Simhub.
That's the (not only) tactile software most of us use here.

MFG Carsten