Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[F1Aussie]

I don't own any Behringer amps, so I can't speak on any internal settings to limit the power. What I would do is use a multimeter and a formula to determine the gain settings. To do that you need to know the RMS power output of the amp. Unfortunately Behringer doesn't post the RMS numbers, only Peak. You might be able to guesstimate the power output. Here's a video to illustrate the point, and maybe help you deduce the RMS output power:

For setting the gains you can check out this next video. It's aimed at car audio, but the methodology is the same.

Thanks for that, will check it out

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Ill reinforce this by saying ive lost 2 exciters to impatience so please take your time, use heat and never pull the housing. Those little metal fingers are not repairable

I lost two units, during the removal process as well

 

[calvas]

Hi everyone, I'm newbie in the Race Department but I need some of your advice on setting up my tactile basic system for now in my rig!
I have a GTomega classic with the rear seat Frame and a rs9 seat and thrust master T3PA pedals. For now I just have 2 Dayton Audio 25 Puck and a nobsound amp. I will plan to upgrade in the future but for now is what I have!
So based on that... Where's the best place to mount this 2 shakers?

Thank you all!

 

[stigs2cousin]

From a "driving feedback perspective" I´d say one exciter to the brake, one to the accelerator for wheel lock/ wheelspin.

Also possible would be the second exciter onto/into the seat, an example here:

This video was the starting point for me.

MFG Carsten

 

[Beano iRacing]

Finally drafted a small layout diagram of the system I am busy with. Still need to purchase the 2x EPQ304’s, but they won’t slow me down much. Have all the other hardware, and things are in progress. Will update more later.

I know Clarkes are better than the Advances, but I had these 4 sitting here in their boxes for a few years, so will get a couple of TST329’s later.

 

[Mr Latte]

Oh, I know a thing or two about tactile in boxes, lol.
Something that might interest you....

Regards a multi-exciter configuration for the back of a seat.

Recently, I have been gathering up several different products I wanted to compare to determine what to use for my own tutorial and installation guide...

Most items have arrived but my aim will be focused on offering a nice detailed report and showcasing how to achieve a pro-looking installation with some ideas I wanted to apply to my own seat but have not seen done by others.

This guide will highlight an excellent way for a newbie to start with only 2 exciters but also offer in-depth instructions on how to expand that up to the same I will do for my own seat. This will be 8 exciter units (but all on the back of the seat).

3x Stereo Pairs Of Exciters (High/Mid/Low) seat positions
2x Mono (centrally) positioned
2x Behringer EPQ304 amplifiers

As a combination, this gives excellent potential on how/where we determine specific effects output. Bringing better ways to separate specific effects to a user's desired body regions. Also, helping in providing more options with improved detailing for a scenario of feeling multiple effects operating at once.

In the guide, I will also cover the ways of incorporating HA 6000 and why it has got some benefits in using that over using a DSP unit with exciters.

 

[Beano iRacing]

@Mr Latte yep, my first inclination is to have 3 stereo pairs h/m/L and 2x mono units located 1/3 and 2/3 heights in the spine area, as that will most likely give better feedback on these small devices, and we anyway have the large units underneath.

I was just mucking around with the schematic to see if I have missed anything. Will update my final version at some point and share here.

 

[calvas]

Well I got another exciter. Now I have um Dayton bst-2 under the seat and thinking now, what’s best for the pucks? Two pucks on pedal tray? One on pedal tray and other on brake? Two on brake/throttle? I want to use also in flight sim… so I think at least on in pedal tray is an option when I change to rudder pedals right? There is a better option?

 

[metalnwood]

From my experience with mini lfes on the pedal tray I think you will be dissapointed if you put the much smaller pucks there.

If it were me I would decide which provided the most benefit, tactile in racing or in flight and put them on the pedals, racing or rudder.

I think they provide much more in racing than flight.

 

[Mr Latte]

I think I have now come up with an ideal solution for effects creation that enables me to build a range of effects for budget transducers including a single pair of affordable exciters.

The approach I wanted.....
First, needed to be scalable, so that effects made for the most basic tactile hardware units can be utilised. Then built upon to also be expandable with increased potential and immersion when additional units or more accomplished tactile are then installed.

What I am devising is an improved solution based on previous work with effects and incorporating the extra benefits Simhub allows us to achieve with:

(a) additional channels
(b) specifically targeted body regions
(c) low, mid, and high bass frequency extension
(d) musically matched tones via octaves, and harmonics

Many of you are aware of my own approach of incorporating BK/TST/EXC as the hardware that can best achieve these goals. That has not changed but what has changed is expanding the EXC from 4-8 units. Used in the proper way, this will enable us to achieve an even wider/-fuller-bodied arrangement of sensations for effects and also improvements for scenarios of multiple effects being deployed.

These 8 EXC will operate in the following at the back of a seat:

Pair 1 (P1) Shoulders
Pair 2 (P2) Mid Seat/Sides
Pair 3 (P3) Low Seat
Mono 1 (M1) Upper Center
Mono 2(M2) Lower Center

The potential possible, both with the new approach I have discovered in effects creation and giving people the ability to start with 2 and expand up to 8 exciter units on the back of a seat. I am confident, that this will form an immersion in effects that is not possible with any other configuration on the market.

Each unit can be incorporated with the others, using a musical approach to deliver more potential in sensations with frequencies. It also gives us many more options in how we place or what effects we group or separate to each unit. This lets us go beyond the common limitations a single unit trying to produce an arrangement of multiple effects has. Effects no longer need to be limited to a single units operation or a single units point of installation that typical single unit or 4x corner installation approaches have.

I will seek to build new effects, that will be made which can accommodate from 2/4/6/8 EXC with this new scalable approach. Users will also be able to apply specific effects layers that are designed to be used with a TST or BK.

So a user can have 2/4/6/8 EXC units and pair any combination with either or both a TST and BK. The user simply would apply the effects layers to each/any effect used for the different units/devices.

To help accommodate this new EXC installation I am reaching out to people in the community interested in helping to design/make a custom enclosure to bring much more professional-looking wiring/connection for multi-exciter installations.

3D printed enclosure box that can be mounted to the back of a seat and enables 2-8 EXC to be connected. Only 2 cables would extend from the seat (dual 8 core) that then go to the amplifiers.



Who wants to get creative?

 

[drvrn]

I have mounted small transducers on brake and throttle pedal:

Dayton Audio - TT25-8 PUCK Tactile Transducer Mini Bass Shaker

TT25-8 PUCK Tactile Transducer Mini Bass Shaker

www.daytonaudio.com

Result is good but it take space above pedals.

I have now ordered the Pedal Rumble Kit from Sim 3D with vibration motor. Hoping for stronger vibrations than with transducer.
Waiting is very long (1 to 2 months people say in Discord).

Pedal Rumble Motor Kit | Sim 3D

Now Includes the V2 Rumble Motors as standardA rumble motor kit to add a new dimension to your sim racing experience. Using seperate software like Simhub you can completely customize and tune the pedal vibration to suit your driving style & required experience.Having the ability to feel when the...

www.sim-3d.co.uk

 

[themautrix]

First of all, thanks to everybody in this amazing thread..

I'm lurking for some time and about page 60 only but would like to ask this in case it hasn't being mention yet, sorry if it already has been answered.

Can a dsp board like these https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dsp-...dsp-module-adau1701-sigma-studio-p-14837.html be used with Sigma Studio and an S.M.S.L. SA-98E or similar amps to kind of replicating what a Behringer iNuke do? I think it could also be used to duplicate sound for telemetry/audio tactile as it has 2 outputs and you can let one like the input if you want.

 

[Mr Latte]

First of all, thanks to everybody in this amazing thread..

I'm lurking for some time and about page 60 only but would like to ask this in case it hasn't being mention yet, sorry if it already has been answered.

Can a dsp board like these https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dsp-...dsp-module-adau1701-sigma-studio-p-14837.html be used with Sigma Studio and an S.M.S.L. SA-98E or similar amps to kind of replicating what a Behringer iNuke do? I think it could also be used to duplicate sound for telemetry/audio tactile as it has 2 outputs and you can let one like the input if you want.

I saw some new mini DSP amp boards a while back on Parts Express and briefly looked into the Sigma Studio.

Looks like it has potential but most people seem to want a simple solution that's reliable, proven and isn't in itself a project to try to learn/configure and apply like how some PC software EQ options can be as well.

It's hard to find an affordable multichannel amp with DSP that is suitable for budget tactile options. The t.racks solution available in both individual DSP or combined amp options appears to have USB issues with some people's systems.

For budget tactile, as it is much more restricted in what it can output regards its best-felt frequencies, the DSP will offer fewer advantages.

My recommendation would be to consider trying an HA6000 (with proper TRS cables) that lets you add bass/treble to each channel independently but with the ability to also (if you want) mix two sources (how you want).

From memory, IIRC the bass control increases the dB by about 3dB for all frequencies under @80Hz and the treble for those above @80Hz. It can help boost the lower range, so more of it is felt a bit better, and then balance effects using stronger frequencies on the unit with maintaining their own effect layer gain settings within Simhub. Ideally, it gives you some additional control over the output for different units.


Perhaps, let's see how Beano gets on with his

 

[themautrix]

BTW I'm stuck waiting for my cockpit (TRAKRACER TRX) until January if lucky..but I already bought 6 x reckhorn bs200i, 3 x smsl-98e and 1 NU6000DSP. I also bought 3 of those tiny dsp boards and 1 usb programmer to try experiment and have a "tinynuke smsl". Im curious if with the help of an oscilloscope would be easier to finetune all that. Not sure if I will even be able to mount the bodyshakers until I have the cockpit, given it changes positions, and no idea how much space under pedals or seat. Thanks for all your time and knowledge, Mr. Latte.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Working on a little project for Mr. Latte.
Initial Prototype is printing.

 

[Procrastinator1]

Working on a little project for Mr. Latte.
Initial Prototype is printing.
View attachment 601079View attachment 601078

That looks great. I was just figuring out some way to wire my exciters, but was struggling because I switch out the seat when people come over and need a disconnect. If you guys want to sell one, I would be interested in purchasing.

For the exciters, I was going to pick up a HA6000 like others in the thread, but have a good connection for lightly used Behringer gear. I was tempted to grab a X32 rack since the price is hard to beat, but it seems like overkill for my 12 piece tactile setup. Anyone running an x32 or the x18 air line of mixers? My main concern was the latency in some of the specs ive read, but maybe I’m reading it incorrectly. Am I correct in assuming that if I ran a mixer, I could use the internal DSP function of the mixer to tune all my outputs at once, instead of setting different profiles for each Behringer amp (3ea)?

 

[RCHeliguy]

That looks great. I was just figuring out some way to wire my exciters, but was struggling because I switch out the seat when people come over and need a disconnect. If you guys want to sell one, I would be interested in purchasing

It will be a freely available file to have 3D printed and you are correct about the purpose of this.

There are other iterations in the works.

 

[Procrastinator1]

It will be a freely available file to have 3D printed and you are correct about the purpose of this.

There are other iterations in the works.
View attachment 602994View attachment 602995

Nice work, that thing looks great. Really clean looking solution…way better than the automotive connector I was going to use. Thanks for sharing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Nice work, that thing looks great. Really clean looking solution…way better than the automotive connector I was going to use. Thanks for sharing.

How many exciters are you planning to use?

This is currently set up to support 8 and would have a detachable backplate that could be double sided taped or high strength velcro'd to the back of the seat.

The next iteration will have the connectors coming in from the bottom.

I'll likely cut down variants for 4 and 6 channels.

 

[Mr Latte]

That looks great. I was just figuring out some way to wire my exciters, but was struggling because I switch out the seat when people come over and need a disconnect. If you guys want to sell one, I would be interested in purchasing.

For the exciters, I was going to pick up a HA6000 like others in the thread, but have a good connection for lightly used Behringer gear. I was tempted to grab a X32 rack since the price is hard to beat, but it seems like overkill for my 12 piece tactile setup. Anyone running an x32 or the x18 air line of mixers? My main concern was the latency in some of the specs ive read, but maybe I’m reading it incorrectly. Am I correct in assuming that if I ran a mixer, I could use the internal DSP function of the mixer to tune all my outputs at once, instead of setting different profiles for each Behringer amp (3ea)?

Sounds interesting and the answer is, yes indeed...
I can relate....

Below is not as a boast but what is my own journey. A long one, towards my own learning, vision and ideas. Discovering from creative and pioneering persuits what is possible with tactile and with a unique rig build.

For the ultimate in control and with it the ability to also visually monitor any effect or group of effect layers in Simhub. Including any audio source such as 7.1 Game Audio is doing.

Multichannel audio interfaces let you use professional audio plugins via DAW with low latency ASIO drivers. General rule here is that, more channels brings more costs.

The Behringer/Midas products also work beautifully via their own software without a DAW. Importantly these, also can be controlled and connect with upto 10 wifi devices at any time.
Thats what appealed to me with them.

For a DAW, personally I opted for Cubase Pro as it has some of its own very good audio analysis tools. However, as a tactile hobbyist with an interest in effects creation. I also purchased several of the best audio monitoring/metering/visualisation plugins available.

Different ways to address our unique multichannel usage case. Its possible to output each indvidual effect from Simhub on its own channels. Then apply the desired mix, not within Simhubs options but via the mixer console. This brings some extra possibilities beyond what Simhub makes possible.

Currently in my own rack, for my own crazy rig build requirements. I have provision for upto 24 Simhub channels and 7.1 Game Audio channels. These are routed into the additional S32 that converts the 32 analog inputs into digital sending them via network cable to the x32. I then can control this via the X-Touch midi controller with motorised sliders. Alternatively I can control it wirelesly from a tablet or ipad. The tablet is easily multifunctional, it can be used for Simhub control, but also for monitoring the audio metering/visualisation plugins or in stream deck roles too. For me the S8 Ultra is easily, the current best tablet and works at 120Hz via "Super Display" at very high res with full touch capability as an additional wireless PC monitor. A cool addition but not typical for most sim users requirements.

I have amplification in place for upto 24 channels but the limitations of the x32 rack I believe are 16 Mixbus outputs (any mix you want on each bus). Then 12 (6 stereo) AUX outputs and finally a stereo monitor out.

It is possible to have effects frequencies destined for a BK/TST combo contained within a single output and then split these frequencies on a DSP amp via the crossover to determine what the BK and TST uses.

However in my own extreme usage scenario I may just opt to use the 16 Mixbuses for my primary BK/TST/Earthquake units (Currently 14-16) to be installed on my own unique purpose made self-build. These can all have their own indvidual DSP or audio processing via the DAW to calibrate/tune each units performance.

I will control my 8x EXC via the HA6000 and will showcase in time how to implement one of these perfectly also brining with it, game audio tactile mixing/routing for upto 12 channels. Note that HA6000 uses (stereo inputs/outputs) and lets us apply individual bass/treb as well as mix a (game audio stereo source) with any or all its additional source inputs.

Basically with the hardware you enquire about you can route anything to go anywhere and apply whatever DSP or audio tools you want.

Very few would consider such or need such but hope I have helped with this overview.

Here is an example of one REALLY COOL plugin that I use with my rigs tactile/hardware setup.