Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Deleted member 1066209]

View attachment 602994View attachment 602995

What kind of connector is that, sitting in the middle? I've never seen it before.

 

[Mr Latte]

What kind of connector is that, sitting in the middle? I've never seen it before.

Its used on pro audio.
SpeakON connectors.

Available with support for multiple channels referred to as (poles) for each connector. 2/4/8 pole connectors are available. We need 2 poles +/- for each channel, so an 8 pole connector is 4x channels. Ive wanted someone to make one of these for a while and Mark as always kindly obliged and brings excellent design ideas.

The purpose is twofold:
1. Make cabling for multi-exciter and tactile installations more professional.
2. Make it simple to disconnect a seat or replace units.

My own continued development with effects will bring a new approach, not used before in how effects can be built and operate applying upto 8 EXC units on the back of a seat.

This idea will form part of a future tutorial as my own installation guide for affordable multichannel tactile immersion.

 

[Procrastinator1]

How many exciters are you planning to use?

This is currently set up to support 8 and would have a detachable backplate that could be double sided taped or high strength velcro'd to the back of the seat.

The next iteration will have the connectors coming in from the bottom.

I'll likely cut down variants for 4 and 6 channels.

I have 8 to mount. I just swapped in my new seat, so was looking for ways to wire everything cleanly. I originally was going to use molex style connectors, but that junction box looks ten times better.

Are you planning on running an NL8 cable with bare ends on one side for connecting to amp?

 

[Procrastinator1]

Sounds interesting and the answer is, yes indeed...
I can relate....

Below is not as a boast but what is my own journey. A long one, towards my own learning, vision and ideas. Discovering from creative and pioneering persuits what is possible with tactile and with a unique rig build.

For the ultimate in control and with it the ability to also visually monitor any effect or group of effect layers in Simhub. Including any audio source such as 7.1 Game Audio is doing.

Multichannel audio interfaces let you use professional audio plugins via DAW with low latency ASIO drivers. General rule here is that, more channels brings more costs.

The Behringer/Midas products also work beautifully via their own software without a DAW. Importantly these, also can be controlled and connect with upto 10 wifi devices at any time.
Thats what appealed to me with them.

For a DAW, personally I opted for Cubase Pro as it has some of its own very good audio analysis tools. However, as a tactile hobbyist with an interest in effects creation. I also purchased several of the best audio monitoring/metering/visualisation plugins available.

Different ways to address our unique multichannel usage case. Its possible to output each indvidual effect from Simhub on its own channels. Then apply the desired mix, not within Simhubs options but via the mixer console. This brings some extra possibilities beyond what Simhub makes possible.

Currently in my own rack, for my own crazy rig build requirements. I have provision for upto 24 Simhub channels and 7.1 Game Audio channels. These are routed into the additional S32 that converts the 32 analog inputs into digital sending them via network cable to the x32. I then can control this via the X-Touch midi controller with motorised sliders. Alternatively I can control it wirelesly from a tablet or ipad. The tablet is easily multifunctional, it can be used for Simhub control, but also for monitoring the audio metering/visualisation plugins or in stream deck roles too. For me the S8 Ultra is easily, the current best tablet and works at 120Hz via "Super Display" at very high res with full touch capability as an additional wireless PC monitor. A cool addition but not typical for most sim users requirements.

I have amplification in place for upto 24 channels but the limitations of the x32 rack I believe are 16 Mixbus outputs (any mix you want on each bus). Then 12 (6 stereo) AUX outputs and finally a stereo monitor out.

It is possible to have effects frequencies destined for a BK/TST combo contained within a single output and then split these frequencies on a DSP amp via the crossover to determine what the BK and TST uses.

However in my own extreme usage scenario I may just opt to use the 16 Mixbuses for my primary BK/TST/Earthquake units (Currently 14-16) to be installed on my own unique purpose made self-build. These can all have their own indvidual DSP or audio processing via the DAW to calibrate/tune each units performance.

I will control my 8x EXC via the HA6000 and will showcase in time how to implement one of these perfectly also brining with it, game audio tactile mixing/routing for upto 12 channels. Note that HA6000 uses (stereo inputs/outputs) and lets us apply individual bass/treb as well as mix a (game audio stereo source) with any or all its additional source inputs.

Basically with the hardware you enquire about you can route anything to go anywhere and apply whatever DSP or audio tools you want.

Very few would consider such or need such but hope I have helped with this overview.

Here is an example of one REALLY COOL plugin that I use with my rigs tactile/hardware setup.

Appreciate all the info! I figured sky was the limit with a mixer, but wanted to be sure there wasn’t any issues integrating it into my setup.

I played around with the x32 app tonight, and it might be a big learning curve for a novice like myself. My buddy is letting me borrow his x32 for a week or two, so hopefully will get a better feel for it when I have it in hand. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have 8 to mount. I just swapped in my new seat, so was looking for ways to wire everything cleanly. I originally was going to use molex style connectors, but that junction box looks ten times better.

Are you planning on running an NL8 cable with bare ends on one side for connecting to amp?

The 8 way cables are avail in two sizes.
8x4mm and 8x2.5mm. For larger units perhaps we might consider the 4mm but you can build up your own or have cables made to suit the amp connections you require.

 

[andreifrz]

Hi all, i need to admit that this subject maybe was already discussed but i need a bit of help, if someone here will be willing to give a small advice.
Currently i use the motion platform on my rig, but so far no transducers and i really miss the feeling of RPM, road texture and curbs.
My plan is to add 4xDayton DAEX32EP-4 Exciter directly sticked at the back of my seat, as mentioned by @Mr Latte (2 around shoulder area and 2 around middle back are).
I will use an external USB sound card which i will configure in SimHub specially for the transducer.
Now my confusion comes when i speak about amplifier. I was planning to use the Nobsound NS 15G which has 2 channels. Below is the link:
https://amzn.eu/d/5hEScSI

My question is, since i will use 4 Daytons can i pair 2+2 for each channel, and in Simhub to use them as stereo L+R?
I really do not want to add a second amp to my rig.
And if below scheme is okay for pairing the exciters.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi all, i need to admit that this subject maybe was already discussed but i need a bit of help, if someone here will be willing to give a small advice.
Currently i use the motion platform on my rig, but so far no transducers and i really miss the feeling of RPM, road texture and curbs.
My plan is to add 4xDayton DAEX32EP-4 Exciter directly sticked at the back of my seat, as mentioned by @Mr Latte (2 around shoulder area and 2 around middle back are).
I will use an external USB sound card which i will configure in SimHub specially for the transducer.
Now my confusion comes when i speak about amplifier. I was planning to use the Nobsound NS 15G which has 2 channels. Below is the link:
https://amzn.eu/d/5hEScSI

My question is, since i will use 4 Daytons can i pair 2+2 for each channel, and in Simhub to use them as stereo L+R?
I really do not want to add a second amp to my rig.
And if below scheme is okay for pairing the exciters.

I would advise that you wait or spend more on an EPQ304 amplifier and consider changing its fan. This is the amp many people use for powering the EXC units.

If you are restricted by budget then consider this one instead of the NS 15G

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bluetooth-Digital-Amplifier-Stereo-Channel/dp/B087FWWVB6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=17X08U6WJD000&keywords=nobsound+4+kanal+verst%C3%A4rker&qid=1664738608&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjAzIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=nobsound+4+channel+amp%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-4

We cannot achieve the same results when you combine channels via a single amp. It's best to maintain individual channel control for each unit. Also when building effects, we may want/need different frequencies applied to certain units to create the complete sensation. You cant do this if you duplicate channels.

 

[andreifrz]

I would advise that you wait or spend more on an EPQ304 amplifier and consider changing its fan. This is the amp many people use for powering the EXC units.

If you are restricted by budget then consider this one instead of the NS 15G

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bluetooth-Digital-Amplifier-Stereo-Channel/dp/B087FWWVB6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=17X08U6WJD000&keywords=nobsound+4+kanal+verst%C3%A4rker&qid=1664738608&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjAzIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=nobsound+4+channel+amp%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-4

We cannot achieve the same results when you combine channels via a single amp. It's best to maintain individual channel control for each unit. Also when building effects, we may want/need different frequencies applied to certain units to create the complete sensation. You cant do this if you duplicate channels.

i totally agree with what you say with the effects i cannot get using a 2 channel.
just to better understand if i will use the amp with 4 channels it means that i also need a soundcard with 4 channel, right? the actual sound card i plan to use with simhub it s a 2 channel(stereo) usb sound card.

 

[Mr Latte]

i totally agree with what you say with the effects i cannot get using a 2 channel.
just to better understand if i will use the amp with 4 channels it means that i also need a soundcard with 4 channel, right? the actual sound card i plan to use with simhub it s a 2 channel(stereo) usb sound card.

Yes, but you would soon want more than 2 channels anyways.

Here is an affordable 8-channel card that performs quite well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002LM0U2S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[andreifrz]

Yes, but you would soon want more than 2 channels anyways.

Here is an affordable 8-channel card that performs quite well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002LM0U2S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have ordered exactly as you mentioned. Can you please give me some advices for the settings to start from in order to "protect" the exciters? i have heard many people complaining that after a short time they "burned" this model of exciters.
Here i am interested in Simhub volume, Simhub correct Frequency, volume of the soundcard and volume in the amp. If anything else needs to be mentioned i am more than happy to take it into consideration.
i will use them specifically for RPM, Road texture and maybe Curbs
Rest of the efrects are quite good replicated by the motion platform

 

[Mr Latte]

I have ordered exactly as you mentioned. Can you please give me some advices for the settings to start from in order to "protect" the exciters? i have heard many people complaining that after a short time they "burned" this model of exciters.
Here i am interested in Simhub volume, Simhub correct Frequency, volume of the soundcard and volume in the amp. If anything else needs to be mentioned i am more than happy to take it into consideration.
i will use them specifically for RPM, Road texture and maybe Curbs
Rest of the efrects are quite good replicated by the motion platform

Which amplifier are you for using?
For the Behringer EPQ304 we have settings that we can recommend but different amps will need the user to find suitable volumes.

 

[andreifrz]

Which amplifier are you for using?
For the Behringer EPQ304 we have settings that we can recommend but different amps will need the user to find suitable volumes.

No actually i ordered the Nobsound 4 channel. i really do not have anymore place for the Behringer. i wanted something as small as possible.
i will definitely play with volumes based on the feelings i will get.
but i don t know what restrictions to make from the begining to avoid overheating them and burning them.
thanks

 

[John Bruno]

No actually i ordered the Nobsound 4 channel. i really do not have anymore place for the Behringer. i wanted something as small as possible.
i will definitely play with volumes based on the feelings i will get.
but i don t know what restrictions to make from the begining to avoid overheating them and burning them.
thanks

FWIW, I had a Nobsound before getting the EPQ304, I wouldn't go past a third of the way on the dial. They're powerful little amps given there size, i've blown a few exciters learning the hard way.

 

[Mr Latte]

With the exciters and Simhub, I generally prefer to keep the soundcard at 50%. This way a user with DSP can apply their DSP to increase the output but do so with specific EQ to different frequencies.

The EXC do not necessarily need DSP to still work well with a budget amp. However if not using any DSP as we are keeping the soundcard lower (50%) then you may need some extra amplification from the amp. Nothing to fret about as these are quite easy to power and just because they are 40w units does not mean we need to crank them to their limits.

The EXC output will be strongest in the 40-45Hz range. I find a good way to determine your amp volume is to apply a setting that you dont need to change but enables us to get a good but comfortable output level.

If we apply a 40-45Hz based rpm layer to use to test, then we can set this effects gain all the way upto 100 but keeping the card at 50. When you have this (strongest frequency) at the max gain level from the effects settings. We can use this via gradual small increases to determine what is the ideal volume level setting on the amp.

Be cautious, some people have a tendency of cranking the amp volume too high early on and using the Simhub (channel test) feature that also outputs a 40Hz . It's an easy way to maybe damage the units not knowing if you had the amp volume dial too high. Starting low and working up is the best approach.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I´m back to ACC after a several weeks hiatus, also took the time to rewire cheap amps and shakers/exciters.
Two big units in the back and lumbar seat area, for RPMs and gear shift.
Two small dayton exciters to the pedal plate, for engine reverberation.
Two small dayotn exciters to the base of the seat, for road vibration, kerbs, rumble. Set to mono, no left/right.

And had a great time grinding LFM servers, fantastic feelings. What a great weekend, as usual thank you everyone on this post, for sharing your knowledge so others have a great time.

 

[arekieh]

Hey all,

Beginner here setting up first sim rig with shakers. I'm having a weird issue and looking for some input please.

I have 2x Dayton BST-1 with 2x TPA3116 Amp's, 24V x 10A power supply, and a USB sound card.

My issue is, i cant run a gain higher than 8% in simhub. Anything over 8% and the shakers have a consistent thud thud thud output.
0-8% i can feel the change in output, change in frequency etc. Anything over 8% doesnt matter what the settings are it sounds the same, does this mean its being over driven?

Is this working fine just relative to how much power the power supply is outputing? I have the amp volumes maxed out.

Thanks

 

[arekieh]

Figured it out!

Turned out my power supply was underpowered, even though it said 24v x 10A, it wasnt outputting anywhere near 10A.

Tried a laptop charger that outputs 19v x 4.5A and its running 2x BST-1's without issue now

Thanks

 

[Jallisey]

Diving back into the tactile game!
I had a Buttkicker Gamer 2 setup bolted straight to one of my seat brackets. Loved this simple setup but never got around to setting it up again once I built my new rig and knew there was much more to offer.

I bought 6 of the little (dayton?) exciters and got as far as mounting them on my seat but the wiring is too much and the 3 nob sound amps I bought to drive them not elegant enough for my liking so they are currently sitting unused.

Decided that I want to do it right this time and have ordered a BK LFE and NX3000D and have a couple of hopefully simple questions for the experts in here. I have a fibreglass shell seat that I'm happy to drill into, can I just mount the LFE straight to the bottom of the seat without much concern of structural rigidity? I would then look at isolating my seat from the rig but would need to figure out how to do this without adding much height.

I bought the NX3000D instead of the NX1000D as I'd eventually like to add another LFE to my pedal heel rest, but for now I assume I can just run my surplus BK Gamer shaker down there off the NX3000D?

There was a recommended Behringer amplifier for the exciters, I can't remember if it was the EPQ304 or the HA8000? Although HA looks more like a headphone amp now that I look at it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The epq 304 is generally recommended for the exciters.

 

[Procrastinator1]

Sounds interesting and the answer is, yes indeed...
I can relate....

Below is not as a boast but what is my own journey. A long one, towards my own learning, vision and ideas. Discovering from creative and pioneering persuits what is possible with tactile and with a unique rig build.

For the ultimate in control and with it the ability to also visually monitor any effect or group of effect layers in Simhub. Including any audio source such as 7.1 Game Audio is doing.

Multichannel audio interfaces let you use professional audio plugins via DAW with low latency ASIO drivers. General rule here is that, more channels brings more costs.

The Behringer/Midas products also work beautifully via their own software without a DAW. Importantly these, also can be controlled and connect with upto 10 wifi devices at any time.
Thats what appealed to me with them.

For a DAW, personally I opted for Cubase Pro as it has some of its own very good audio analysis tools. However, as a tactile hobbyist with an interest in effects creation. I also purchased several of the best audio monitoring/metering/visualisation plugins available.

Different ways to address our unique multichannel usage case. Its possible to output each indvidual effect from Simhub on its own channels. Then apply the desired mix, not within Simhubs options but via the mixer console. This brings some extra possibilities beyond what Simhub makes possible.

Currently in my own rack, for my own crazy rig build requirements. I have provision for upto 24 Simhub channels and 7.1 Game Audio channels. These are routed into the additional S32 that converts the 32 analog inputs into digital sending them via network cable to the x32. I then can control this via the X-Touch midi controller with motorised sliders. Alternatively I can control it wirelesly from a tablet or ipad. The tablet is easily multifunctional, it can be used for Simhub control, but also for monitoring the audio metering/visualisation plugins or in stream deck roles too. For me the S8 Ultra is easily, the current best tablet and works at 120Hz via "Super Display" at very high res with full touch capability as an additional wireless PC monitor. A cool addition but not typical for most sim users requirements.

I have amplification in place for upto 24 channels but the limitations of the x32 rack I believe are 16 Mixbus outputs (any mix you want on each bus). Then 12 (6 stereo) AUX outputs and finally a stereo monitor out.

It is possible to have effects frequencies destined for a BK/TST combo contained within a single output and then split these frequencies on a DSP amp via the crossover to determine what the BK and TST uses.

However in my own extreme usage scenario I may just opt to use the 16 Mixbuses for my primary BK/TST/Earthquake units (Currently 14-16) to be installed on my own unique purpose made self-build. These can all have their own indvidual DSP or audio processing via the DAW to calibrate/tune each units performance.

I will control my 8x EXC via the HA6000 and will showcase in time how to implement one of these perfectly also brining with it, game audio tactile mixing/routing for upto 12 channels. Note that HA6000 uses (stereo inputs/outputs) and lets us apply individual bass/treb as well as mix a (game audio stereo source) with any or all its additional source inputs.

Basically with the hardware you enquire about you can route anything to go anywhere and apply whatever DSP or audio tools you want.

Very few would consider such or need such but hope I have helped with this overview.

Here is an example of one REALLY COOL plugin that I use with my rigs tactile/hardware setup.

Thanks again for posting your setup. I finally was able to spend some time on a x32 and it wasn’t as confusing as I thought it would be.

I still have some questions if you wouldn’t mind. I also understand your setup isn’t a typical use case and things can be done for less money. However, the appeal of clean cable management and full control of the audio is massively appealing to me.

1. Are you running the s32 because of the 16 balanced outputs? For cabling I assume you’re running a balanced XLR to bare wire (then installing your choice of connector).

2. Do you have a preference on connectors for the exciters and the BK’s? I picked up some gold plated female spade and banana plug connectors, but wasn’t sure if there was a better option.

3. With all the motion cabling and possible interference, I’m assuming running balanced cables throughout would be the safe choice?

4. I’m assuming I don’t need to use the DSP function in the amps and that would be setup in the mixer?

5. For the exciters, are you using the x32 aux sends to the ha6000, or are you solely controlling it from the ha6000?

I feel like I’ve learned a lot the last month about audio components, but still have barely scratched the surface. I’ve acquired everything except for the mixer, as I couldn’t get a deal on a x32 rack like I thought. I was offered the Yamaha tf-rack or the A&H Qu-Pac for less money than the x32 rack which was a steal. I heard the TF is intuitive and great for beginners, and the Qu-pac has 12 balanced outs which is all I need. Spec wise they seem perfect, but not sure how they stack up for my use compared to the x32.

Any help you can give me would be much appreciated!