Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[metalnwood]

Kydex should give you something in a thickness you want is still stiff but not brittle like the plastic you are using. With Kydex you could probably form the recesses in to it directly as well, its pretty easy to work with like that.

Looks good btw

 

[NetLawMan]

This may seem like a silly question. However, any suggestions on good power strips (surge protectors) to use to connect your setups? I have a CSL DD, Samsung G9, 2 Inuke 1000d's, and Philips Hue lights that would need to be connected to it. At first I was worried about the power draw, but looking at the post a few pages back seems like a power strip would be fine. Maybe still go with one rate for "appliance use"? I live in the US if that's relevant to the suggestions.

Tripp lite isobar with remote switch: Tripp Lite Isobar 8 Outlet Surge Protector Power Strip with Remote Switch, 12ft Cord, Right-Angle Plug, Metal, & $50,000 INSURANCE (ISOBAR8RM) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005122S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_7R46YA20FV1JBST9A4R0

 

[Atak_Kat]

Kydex should give you something in a thickness you want is still stiff but not brittle like the plastic you are using. With Kydex you could probably form the recesses in to it directly as well, its pretty easy to work with like that.

Hmmm. Never heard of it. I will do some research on that to see if I can source something in Europe. Really appreciate the suggestion/hint.

 

[fjskmdl]

Been hesitating more than a year to use tactile because of high price to do it right.
I have a simlab p1x with sparco r100 on seat slider.

Thinking about the following.

1xBehringer nx3000d
1xFischerampss buttkicker lfe
1x racebass plate + 4 racebass isolators
Cabling.

Some questions:
1) Total price would be around 1000euro. Can the above give me good tactile for the price i pay?
2) i know People suggest usig exciters on the seat, but i cannot attach them to sparco r100, and cannot justify replacing the seat. Will ony buttkicker lfe give convincing tactile?
3) @Mr Latte can i Just connect a sparco seat sider to the racebass plate? I would then connec the plate using the racebass isolators to 8020 profile of my rig.
4) does the soundcard need to be 7.1 or 5.1?
5) could someone give me correct cabling to connect the amp to lfe and soundcard?

Thanks

 

[MkUItra]

honestly guys, I can't bring myself to read 275 pages, but would appreciate any input
I'm looking to add 4 units (maybe 5) to a new rig I'm building (P1x).
option 1: 4xDayton Audio BST-1 with one Douk Audio M4 or 2xNS-10G (~$330 after tax)
option 2: 4xButtKicker Mini LFE (~$490) not sure what Amp(s?) to pair with.

tia,

 

[WIL7Y]

Hi, I'm looking for some advice on installing my transducers. I have already completed an installation but I'm finding they shake the chassis more than they shake the seat. This is leading to two undesired effects:

Not enough tactile feel in the seat, unless the volume is turned quite far up;
this then leads to excessive shake of the chassis and in turn vibration in the sub floor.

I currently have a GT Omega Art cockpit and 2x Dayton Audio BST-2 Tactile Bass Shakers are installed to a piece of 9mm MDF which is then bolted in-between the chassis seat frame and the seat runner.

I am now changing my seat to a fibreglass seat (see image below) and wondered if any one had any advice for a different mounting solution. Maybe even directly mounting to the back or underneath of the fibreglass seat? I have researched how to correctly drill fiberglass so I guess this is an option but comes with a risk of damaging the new seat. Unfortunately, I think the transducers are too large to install within cushioning/padding in the seat.

I have also bought some anti-vibration mats (they look like hockey pucks and are 20mm thick). When they arrive I plan on putting these underneath each of the 6 feet my cockpit has. Hopefully they will absorb some of the vibration that the sub-floor is getting.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[blekenbleu]

usig exciters on the seat

Dayton TT25 pucks can be inserted into upholstered seats.

good tactile for the price

Good tactile for any price has transducers closer to you and attached to lower masses.

changing my seat to a fibreglass seat

Exciters attached to that seat,
perhaps with shakers attached to seat brackets
and those brackets isolated from the chassis.

IMO
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/... is an,job or project unnecessarily difficult.

 

[Atak_Kat]

I am now changing my seat to a fibreglass seat (see image below) and wondered if any one had any advice for a different mounting solution. Maybe even directly mounting to the back or underneath of the fibreglass seat? I have researched how to correctly drill fiberglass so I guess this is an option but comes with a risk of damaging the new seat. Unfortunately, I think the transducers are too large to install within cushioning/padding in the seat.

I've experimented with quite a few different things (for sure no where near as much as others, but enough...). It always comes down to a couple things I've learned:
- the more direct you have it really to the seat (or padding) the less isolation you need. Or alternatively, you don't need to have the volume so high, so that everything else is impacted. Same for the pedals. I found it so much easier to just mount the transducer to the heel rest, rather than try to have the entire pedal tray vibrating and then need all sorts of complicated isolation. I'm sure other implementations are 'better' than mine, but I'm quite happy (and I'm sure others are very happy with their approach as well)
- it seems to me that a huge amount of time is spent on isolation and related methods. OK, fine. But I wonder sometimes if there is just better transducer placement to be done first. Especially for more simple setups (then you have the complex rigs you see around here, and yes, that's a different story....) Yes, you may still need/want isolation, but I think it can be far less complicated if you really try to get those transducers more directly mounted to the seat, or closer to our body.

I realize people might prefer not to 'mod' their seat or whatever else. I get it. Drilled holes are permanent. But at some point I think we need to ask why not? Especially if it's underneath where no-one can see it. I mean, there are situations with complicated setups and interferences, where it just cannot work to direct mount. I guess there are also situations where a person might want to preserve the seat in case they want to sell/replace it later. Warranty claim for a rigid/fiberglass seat??

Or, alternatively, I don't know your seat, but perhaps the padding is removable/replacable? Maybe it's possible to just get a set of replacement padding? Someone with very basic sewing skills can likely make a couple replacement cushions (so you don't damage the originals) in about 10 minutes (it's just foam, with a cloth covering...). Heck, foam, some material, and some spray/fabric glue can do a decent job if you know where to put the seams/edges. Even if it's just to 'test' or try something......

A couple other ideas, but both would be aimed at trying to direct mount one/both of your current transducers direct to your seat.
- for $10 or so, get a role of really high strength permanent tape/adhesive (like 3M VHB). It's stronger than I thought. And it is removable so it's not as 'permanent' as the description implies. But you have to apply it properly. That's an easy/cheap test to see if it could withstand the vibration, while enabling a direct mount. BST-2 is what 25 watts? Some people will say yes/no..... just give it a try for yourself and then you know if something more complicated is needed.
- the other option I can think of is to make/fabricate some sort of mount for the seat bottom (maybe 3d printed, or just simple metal work with some alum strip or channel. Then maybe use a high strength epoxy to attach the mount to your seat, then the transducer to the mount. That would be a bit more permanent than the VHB option, but no holes, and at least if you remove it, it's under the seat and can be cleaned up after removal.

 

[Alexi Törnqvist]

I would love some help choosing the best option of the following. My options are a little bit limited as I would like to buy locally, but hopefully they're good anyway. The idea is to have a budget setup, with just some tire slip and perhaps a couple of other effects. I should be fine with mono (mostly do Iracing anyway, and intend to use their LFE). Anyhow...

Option 1: 2x Dayton Audio BST-1 with APA-150 amp. This is sort of as far as I want to stretch the budget. It's 450 Eur on sale right now.

The idea would be to mount one BST-1 under the seat (either on a levered bracket or directly to the seat) and the other under the pedal tray.

Option 2: 1x Dayton BST-1, 4x Dayton TT25-8 and SMSL SA98. ~320 Eur. Not sure if the amp can handle this and the TT25's are out of stock.

I would probably mount this like one BST-1 under the seat, two TT25's under the pedal tray and two around the shoulder area of the seat.

Option 3: Earthquake MQB-1 with SMSL SA98, with the shaker mounted under the seat. This is 470 Eur so stretching the budget.

Option 4: As option 3 but with Clark TST239. This is a bit more expensive.

The BST-1's could also be replaced with Reckhorn BS-200i, in case that's a better option.

What would you recommend, and why?

 

[anton_Chez]

For a budget build, I would go 2 x BST1's and 1 x SMSL amp. Mount both to seat, either both on the back or one on the back and one on the rear. You can always leave this later and build into it with more hardware.

 

[Atak_Kat]

The idea is to have a budget setup, with just some tire slip and perhaps a couple of other effects. I should be fine with mono (mostly do Iracing anyway, and intend to use their LFE).

Considering all the options you listed, and this comment, I would go as simple (but powerful) as possible. In my opinion, you'd be better to have 1x good transducer and an amp to drive it, mounted to the seat. As powerful a combination as possible. That will do the job.

Sorry I don't know all the specific products you list (I mean, I have heard of them, but never tried them, so I have no right to make a specific product recommencation)

Why?
Spreading budget around only results in lots of stuff, but all of it lower power. You risk (like my first purchase) to get it all hooked up and think 'is that it?' One strong transducer/amp mounted well, can give you a good punch. Which is not always necessary, but gives you options in terms of range of effects to use.
In case you get hooked and decide to spend more money later, you have a good base-product to build on.

One suggestion though. If you're looking at basic/budget amps, check if the power supply is actually able to deliver the power needed to achieve the amps 'advertised' output. Example, inexpensive mini-amps (ie. Nobsound, etc) often advertise 100wx2, or something. If you read the documentation, they are reasonably transparent that you need to match a different power supply (compared to the one that it comes with) if you want to get to that level of output.

 

[Alexi Törnqvist]

For a budget build, I would go 2 x BST1's and 1 x SMSL amp. Mount both to seat, either both on the back or one on the back and one on the rear. You can always leave this later and build into it with more hardware.

So, I actually placed an order on just that. Seems like many use the SMSL amp as a budget alternative so I hope it will do the job.

Any tips for mounting the shakers? I assume you would want best possible contact against the seat, but the surface is obviously a bit curved. Perhaps it's a good idea to use something as a gasket for better contact?

Considering all the options you listed, and this comment, I would go as simple (but powerful) as possible. In my opinion, you'd be better to have 1x good transducer and an amp to drive it, mounted to the seat. As powerful a combination as possible. That will do the job.

Sorry I don't know all the specific products you list (I mean, I have heard of them, but never tried them, so I have no right to make a specific product recommencation)

Why?
Spreading budget around only results in lots of stuff, but all of it lower power. You risk (like my first purchase) to get it all hooked up and think 'is that it?' One strong transducer/amp mounted well, can give you a good punch. Which is not always necessary, but gives you options in terms of range of effects to use.
In case you get hooked and decide to spend more money later, you have a good base-product to build on.

One suggestion though. If you're looking at basic/budget amps, check if the power supply is actually able to deliver the power needed to achieve the amps 'advertised' output. Example, inexpensive mini-amps (ie. Nobsound, etc) often advertise 100wx2, or something. If you read the documentation, they are reasonably transparent that you need to match a different power supply (compared to the one that it comes with) if you want to get to that level of output.

I think the MQB-1 would be the most powerful but I think it would also need a more powerful amp. I'm hoping the BST-1's will be powerful enough. It feels like the fibreglass shell on the seat should be easy to vibrate.

Good tip about checking the power supply. On the SMSL it's 36V at 5.6A so it should be able to deliver the rated power of 160W per channel. That number is at 10% distorsion though, so I won't crank it up to max.

 

[anton_Chez]

I had 4 x Aura Pro's back in the day, which are effectively BST-1's, and 2 x SMSL amps, 160 x 2 channel. I did not, however, have them mounted directly to the seat like I do now. I have a Sparco Rev seat, the back is curved but not too badly. I've mounted both my BST-2's to the rear and while they are not 100% hard up with the seat, only the edges really are floating, so to speak, by a few mm. So as long as your seat has not got a really drastic curve to it you should be fine. You can try really strong industrial double sided tape, similar style Velcro or just do what I did and drill straight into the seat and physically fix them with a bolt.

The MQB-1 is basically a BK Mini LFE, or near enough to it. I bought one and was very surprised how small it actually was. I would not be buying a single one of those as a stand alone single unit for tactile. I mean it will probably do a good job mounted to the seat but if you're going for a single unit solution, I will ALWAYS recommend stretching to a BK LFE or Concert, the largest units. The MQB-1 doesn't need as much power, but I think you need something bigger than the SMSL or Nobsound amps for it to get the most out of it. All of a sudden you're looking at Behringer NX1000D territory now, which is what you want for a BK LFE. So if you're already going to have the amp for either one of those, may as well bite the bullet and get the biggest BK there is. A less cost effective solution is also to consider a Clark TST model. At least a Gold if you're using it as a single unit. It has more range than the BK units but there is not a lot of low end.

My 100% recommendation is this:

For entry level budget, "what is this tactile thing people are talking about?" type build: 2 x BST-1 or BST-2, 1 x SMSL 2 x channel amp or a Nobsound equivalent, at least the 100W x 2 models

For medium budget, "I know tactile is going to be awesome but I don't want to mess around forever building it" type build: 1 x BK Concert or BK LFE, 1 x Behringer NX1000D or 3000D. I think 1000D is enough especially if you bridge it but 3000D gives a little more overhead and more potential to run 2 large units when in dual channel mode.

All units mounted either directly to seat, especially the little ones, or on a mount then connected to the seat rails with some form of small isolation pads.

 

[Alexi Törnqvist]

I just got the shakers and amp. Haven't checked under the seat yet but at the back I can get good contact with the center of the shaker, and perhaps an inch away on the sides. Do you think that'll work fine? If it's okay to mount it that way I could also make some hard plastic distances to run the bolts through - might improve the contact a little bit.

Might be a good idea to test with double sided tape first though.

It's going to be interesting to see how this works out. The shakers feel pretty massive. I get the impression they'll be able to rattle the seat pretty good.

Ps. The bottom of the seat turns out to be perfect - nice and flat.

 

[stigs2cousin]

What kind of signals can you get from the LFE channel?
I don´t know Iracing, but AV wise you could get some low frequency vibration as in curb rumble etc.

If you want tyre slip information don´t you have to use the telemetrie?

I use the AC telemetrie via Simhub and find it most usefull for different hints for driving, for example tyre slip differentiated between front and rear and brake lock.

MFG Carsten

 

[EsxPaul]

I could also make some hard plastic distances to run the bolts through - might improve the contact a little bit

You could pick up some nylon spacers for very little money once you have tried a test fit and gotten some measurements. I think that would help a lot with transferring vibrations into your seat

 

[Alexi Törnqvist]

What kind of signals can you get from the LFE channel?
I don´t know Iracing, but AV wise you could get some low frequency vibration as in curb rumble etc.

If you want tyre slip information don´t you have to use the telemetrie?

I use the AC telemetrie via Simhub and find it most usefull for different hints for driving, for example tyre slip differentiated between front and rear and brake lock.

MFG Carsten

I don't know the exact details but Iracings LFE has physics based effects that are not available through telemetry. Tire slip, I believe, is one of them.

You could pick up some nylon spacers for very little money once you have tried a test fit and gotten some measurements. I think that would help a lot with transferring vibrations into your seat

View attachment 550419

Yeah, I was thinking of something like that. If I'm lucky my local hardware store has something suitable - I need to make trip to buy nuts and bolts anyway.

 

[No Depth]

Whelp, I just placed a pre-order for the new BK Gamer Pro(to replace my Gamer 2).

ButtKicker Gamer PRO

ButtKicker® Gamer PRO® is the all new sim racing and gaming haptic hardware that reproduces immersive, accurate and powerful sim racing, flight sim and gaming effects making your lap times faster and your gaming experience better.

thebuttkicker.com

Looks like it will basically be an Advance with a similar mounting clamp to the Ganer 2(minus the arm), and a far superior amp in many ways(crossing fingers).

Always was eying an LFE, but I have no mounting option really with the NLR V3 motion under my seat, so at least this should be able to still use the mounting post on that while adding more power.

Plus, since the amp can act as its own USB sound card, it frees up a slot on my 7.1 card for ANOTHER transducer. My pedal plate could maybe use another?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I have a BK-CT and TST-429 mounted to my seat on an NLRv3.

It's very doable.

I had pretty good tactile simply relying on the transducers being outboard and using the pivot point.

I have a more advanced solution now, but the main point is that the transducers don't have to fit under the seat to work well.

 

[No Depth]

I have a BK-CT and TST-429 mounted to my seat on an NLRv3.

It's very doable.

Heh I’m aware and am a fan of your build thread, but I don’t have access to the machine-filed plate mounts you fashioned to make that possible.