Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[D0hne]

The intention I had discovered with the exciters is that the user can apply them in different ways....
Here are examples I have found myself doing with effects creation and development.

1. For their own specific effects roles to reduce the number of effects operating on each unit.
2. Combine with BK/TST to deliver additional tactile sensations
3. Enhance BK/TST effects layers with additional (harmonically matched) frequencies
4. Improve stereo effects felt sensations with (potentially) multiple pairs of stereo units
5. Place a specific effects operation directly to the desired body region

Point (3) is definitely something I would want to experiment with. Why not let them properly complement the larger units for a richer feeling if you have them..

And as I would be mounting them to the back / sides of my seat I'd stick with only stereo effects that one would feel irl in those regions. All I can think of though is some cornering G-force perhaps. I'm not interested in a simple tactile cue of an event, but rather immersion.

Although I wouldn't know what frequencies would work to trick me into accepting it as G-force.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[RCHeliguy]

How do you do the setup for the LFE and the TST? Do you use a Low pass filter or High pass filter on both to separate the used range? I have a NX3000D with 2 LFE and soon getting a TST429 with a NX1000D. As a newbie in terms of audio etc....I never touched these low pass filters or high pass filters etc......

This is my starting point. I may have added gain to the TST that isn't showing in this graph.

Red - BK-CT,
Green - TST 329/429
Yellow - upcoming exciters

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Mr Latte]

I have settled on pretty much recommended.

1 x Buttkicker LFE
1 x Behringer NX3000D

1 x TST (?)
1 x Behringer NX1000D

4 x DAEX32EP-4
1 x Behringer EPQ304
1 x t.racks DSP 4x4 mini

Just scratching my head about the TST model as there is the Buttkicker LFE to provide very low frequency. Unless the higher TST's offer something more than the lower low end Hz? I don't want to get something that ultimately is not fit for purpose, but I am also already feeling the spend as I have been sourcing parts to South Africa for my first proper rig / hardware + SFX100 all in one go.

Will start building in 2 weeks and want to dabble in tactile as well to offload the obvious effects.

The above is for the seat only, of course. Thinking of waiting on the peddles for now to let my bank account take a breather.

The performance regards TST in how we are using these is not that great of a difference between 209/239.

The TST really can shine in performance at the point the BK really starts to lose out and of course the TST can offer much nicer and finer detailing/response in speed. I refer to it being smoother than a BK so any effects that are more constant or generate more harmonics often we will find work great on TST models, (RPM/Wheelslip) as two examples.

TST have more powerful magnets with each model, the 329 is probably the best-suited unit for price/performance. You won't run these at their max wattages, not with direct mounting to seat/plate areas and with good isolation solutions.

If you take on board my RACEBASS concept and in how we combine the BK/TST then the improved output with lower frequencies that say the 429 offers is not so much needed as we achieve even more with the BK for those lower frequencies.

In some effects layers, we can have both the BK/TST operational to not only offer more energy but spread the felt sensation over the seat more than one unit alone would achieve. Results with a T209 and large BK are still impressive as do keep in mind by creating effects with this approach we are not (like the traditional method) relying on the individual transducers to produce an effect.

You need to also think beyond the norm in how effects can be created and deployed over a seat. Simhub made it possible to enable us, to become more creative with effects and have much greater levels of immersion than what people have been doing for the past 15 years with tactile.

 

[cnhoff]

Thanks!

How do achieve this in the NX3000D software?

You set a lowpass filter for the LFE with a corner frequency of around 40 Hz and a lowpass-highpass combination for a band pass characteristic for the TST with around 40 Hz and 180 Hz respectively.

I recommend doing some experiments of your own on the actual frequencies and especially the overlap region.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[cnhoff]

Ok will try that!


BTW, why do we try to avoid any overlapping between the transducers? because it is not necessary or because it extends the life of the transducers or because it is contra productive etc....?

Well at least I don't try to avoid that. Between 40 and 50 Hz both models can be used in my setup.

 

[Mr Latte]

This is my starting point. I may have added gain to the TST that isn't showing in this graph.

Red - BK-CT,
Green - TST 329/429
Yellow - upcoming exciters

View attachment 507777

Thanks for posting...

Some thoughts, not from actual testing.

BK
As we are pushing an aggressive curve you may want to lower the @20-25Hz range a tad via PEQ but this (not confirmed) may feel stronger on LFE than CT models. With increased wattage, it's a scenario on these units, the piston may hit their casing.

The CT as explained in the BK manuals is apparently "tuned" for musical instruments (bass guitar/kick drum) So that 40-50Hz may be a bit stronger on the CT than the LFE? I think the drop coming in at just below 40Hz is a good start and the unit offering 70Hz at 0dB helps some harmonics come through with the 20-30Hz fundamentals.

The curve for the exciters may still be a bit aggressive as they are punchy at 40Hz (even with no DSP) and to help protect them or reduce buzzz/brrr. As beta testers get stock and them installed I am keen to see what we find with users of different seats and nailing down some really good DSP settings for these. I think something in between what you show here and the TST will be on the money. Owners of different seat materials may have to use PEQ for controlling certain frequencies reverberations.


TST
You might be able to push a bit more with the 40-50Hz range but then apply PEQ to lower the 60-80Hz if you find it a bit too much with a higher curve applied?

I do believe we will find settings that suit the different units but also specific seat materials.
The idea is a RaceBass recommended hardware setup would enable the user to load pre-tested settings to compare or if they wanted modify.

One of the benefits of the (NXD) and t.tracks is also being able to see the input & output levels for effects.

So this is handy to get a visual reference of what effects generate with the effects own gain level and the global Simhub volumes. It helps the user see potential effects or scenarios with combined effects on a channel.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Well at least I don't try to avoid that. Between 40 and 50 Hz both models can be used in my setup.

Ok will try that!


BTW, why do we try to avoid any overlapping between the transducers? because it is not necessary or because it extends the life of the transducers or because it is contra productive etc....?

It all depends how many effects are being produced on an individual shaker at any one time. It will make more sense to route an effect in the "overlap Hz range"(30-45Hz) to the shaker that is free if the other shaker in that region is too busy. It's just a balancing act to produce the desired effect with enough strength and seperation. For reference I have 3x TST429's, 2 x Q10B's, BKC & BKG2 paired in front/centre/rear setup

 

[Mr Latte]

The problem is most people will not have a clue what Hz is being used by effects.

You can't just take the perspective of thinking you will set effect (A) to use 10-30Hz and effect (B) to use 35-65Hz and then these effects only generate those frequencies and nothing else.

This is not how audio works.

When we apply multiple effects then the Hz the effect uses can not only vary based on the set range for that effect and how it operates. So when the effect is operational you may have instances of effects using their center values with surrounding frequencies but then also generated harmonics of lower frequencies from even another effect being mixed with these.

Frequency overlap with effects will be common as we have to take into account the full frequencies each effect generates (including its harmonics) and the only way to make more improved effects is having the visual representations to see/understand exactly what is happening.

You can build good effects by feel alone, but we can build better effects with more understanding.

Yes with multiple units we can reduce the overlap or separate effects that are often operational at the same times to different units/channels.

We have to take heed that we avoid too much compounding of certain frequencies in conjunction with the DSP curves we may be applying and the output characteristics of the hardware being used.

These are just things with experience and trial/error we start to better understand and personally I feel still much can be learned and achieved with continued effects development.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[metalnwood]

@TonyMM That is some nice tactile gear you have there.

You are going to like the mix of SFX and tactile, there are some nice effects you can get with the motion platform that will combine with the tactile - like standing engine low rpm. Its can be really nice having the whole rig slighly move in tandem with the low freq of the BK's.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

So yes some help in terms of DSP settings and Simhub effects could certainly help me and many of us and I am really looking forward to seeing your offer with Racebass etc.....

SimHub default profile comes with pretty much all effects set at 44hz.
What would be really helpful for simple guys not looking to invest countless hours into tuning is some kind of spreadsheet with recommended settings of each effect for different types of transducers based on their known operating range.
And (a man can dream, right) if SimHub devs incorporated that into app where you can choose type of transducer for effect with automatically populated baseline recommended values, would have been ideal.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

What would be really helpful for simple guys not looking to invest countless hours into tuning is some kind of spreadsheet with recommended settings of each effect for different types of transducers based on their known operating range.

I think I could put up something like this and hopefully we can all build on it together to help newcomers

 

[D0hne]

@TonyMM That is some nice tactile gear you have there.

You are going to like the mix of SFX and tactile, there are some nice effects you can get with the motion platform that will combine with the tactile - like standing engine low rpm. Its can be really nice having the whole rig slighly move in tandem with the low freq of the BK's.

Do you mean have SFX100 do some of the low RPM idle as well?

 

[metalnwood]

yes, I dont use it to do any engine rpm at higher frequencies, thats strictly the realm of tactile but sitting in pits when you would have the tactile doing the warble kind of thing, it is pretty nice having the rig move a bit. Also, bogging down getting off the line, bunny hop etc. Those meld well with whats happening with the tactile.

I am snug in a bucket seat so you feel the slight movement side to side which I think adds to it nicely.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[metalnwood]

If you are using thanos then SRS will do it and flypt can be made to do it at well. SRS is certainly easier as its just a slider for how much you want.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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