Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Smoothchat]

I've had my JetSeat (vibrating seat cover) for a few days now. Initially I didn't much like the provided special effects and simply set the pad to respond to an audio signal. I put on my oculus Rift and redirected the default sound to the headset. This freed up my on board audio to use with the Platform Manager Tactile (audio) output (that comes with the NLMv3). I then fed this to the audio input of the JetSeat.

The JetSeat is essentially a "massage" seat cover with 6 vibrators that are essentially out of balance rotating cylinders . They respond to the audio input and simultaneously spin at varying speeds to simulate vibrations and bumps etc, but I found that I was sometimes aware of their rotation "frequency". eg. a bump is simlulated with a quick acceleration and deceleration of a vibrator, but the bump has it's own "frequency" as the vibrator spins up and then down. The trick is to keep the settings fairly low so that they are descreet, otherwise you could end up with an entire seat that just vibrates like a massage chair.

I have since gotten more used to the seat and now use the Simshaker Wheels software to drive the seat via direct USB. This gives more control over each individual bank of vibrators. Accelerate and you get vibration in your lower back. Decelerate and you get vibration under your thighs as you brake hard. Go round a hard corner and you feel vibrations down one side of your body as the car leans in that direction.

The Jetseat is a fairly cost effective alternative to a full scale buttkicker setup although I intend to fit a Buttkicker gamer2 in anycase, directly to the rear of my Next level gaming chair and hopefully they will compliment each other.

With Motion Platform, JetSeat and Buttkicker I hope to get the most out of my setup. Typically the Jetseat and Buttkicker will be at fairly low levels and effects adjusted so as not to duplicate the platform's effects, but rather "augment" them.. The intention is to fill the vibration and road surface gaps, whilst allowing the platform to deliver the more dynamic bumps and sways.

The Jetseat is also useful for flightsims. Using Simshaker aviator software, I use it with the engine effect on a very low setting to give me a slight "rumble" of the jet engine. I can also "feel" each wheel of the landing gear as they deploy/retract.

I am happy with my purchase.

 

[Mr Latte]

Enjoyed your write up on this, thanks for sharing @Smoothchat.

Bit of a blog post.....

So this week, after months away from messing around with tactile. I went back to do more in SSW as I have been experimenting and learned how to use/create better "WAV" files for those using tactile/transducers with the SSW software.

I am not sure how or if it's possible to convert these to "UMV" files for the JetSeat but have been finding good improvements over the default WAV used in the software for tactile transducers. Curious if possible to convert files, so JetSeat users can also perhaps get an improvement in performance based on custom profile with the contained effects?


Zandvoort
Great track I find to test on in Assetto Corsa

Soooo, made progress with some new, firm and resounding gear change effects.
Have tried several and whilst all a bit different feeling/sensation these I believe are more exciting and enjoyable. (Will do several for people to choose from)

Have also been testing new effects for bumps which give more detail and rebound type sensation, an improvement on past testing I had done. Not just a thump but detail after the initial thud.

Continuing on to improve some of the other effects too.

Will be hoping and looking to find others willing to help test/develop these based on feedback they can give based on the tactile they are using on on their own rigs.

 

[anton_Chez]

Let me know when they are available and i will put some through their paces. Looking forward to that. Still use your initial fxxl settings for all sims to this day. Engines are fantastic, but I really look forward to the refined bumps and such. They are good now, but any improvement is welcome!

 

[Mr Latte]

Sure can mate, one issue may be how well some of the effects I have set will come across on your Aura Pro. Mainly as some effects use, real low frequencies eg 10Hz. They need to as well, to achieve the desired sensation. Although the gain slider in SSW if increased for units will help a user get the best out of them that their tactile can generate.

So yes will welcome your or anyone's feedback.
(See your PM) I will give privately to others or help modify for peoples own tactile as long as they are willing to help configure, return with feedback and experiment.

I put in about 6 hours of configuring for all the effects (except engine & damage), I think with my latest settings, this is possibly better for "stereo kerbs" and G forces representing what the car is doing. Very pleased with this progress made today.

Do kinda feel maybe SSW is losing out on some of the surface/road bump detailing that can be found in Simvibe but does seem better in its own ways too.

Curious if as mentioned recently @=Andre= can do anything more to improve AC in this respect?

 

[Mr Latte]

JULY 31ST
TESTING UPDATE​

So after late night trials, I was quick to get into doing more testing today, tweaking with the audio files generated/used for the various effects. Really getting some excellent tactile immersion now from this simple and affordable software.

Using a good combination of Hz for different effects with rather different "waveforms". This breaks away from the (default settings) that use the same for some effects. The difference is WOW as, this new on-going profile is certainly giving very good defined sensations with each mixing well as the various effects are operational. Yet each now having its own unique feel.

Progress guys.....

Acceleration
Nice feel coming out of slow corners, feel the energy build with the pedal depression/speed. I like this not too overbearing but noticeable, works well with other effects.

Deceleration
Have a superb jelly wobble feeling with real good deep low-end frequencies giving a sense of energy and the car under load. Excellent sensation coming from fast straights into slow corners.

Bumps/Buffets
With the big BK LFE have this effect, now producing one of the best sensations I've felt for kerbs and bumps, even with the gain only at 20% volume. This should work well for those on smaller units and deliver a strong but detailed rebound, not like a single punch tone sensation. Also noticed the car feels great when I assume it is bottoming. Feels superb on the "S" hill section on Zandvoort.

Lateral Acceleration
Have this producing a firm but smooth sense of energy which feels great in high-speed corners.

Gear Shift
I now have these feeling much better than the default or with whats even possible in Simvibe.
You want a short punchy shift? A shift that is really firm with more than single tone/thump detail? A shift that is slower with a clunk feel and suits older manual gears? I have good working samples for these to test on different cars. Yet it is rather surprising how this short/small effect can help with the immersion and the character of the car being driven.

 

[TrailSlide]

Thank you mrlatte ! I'm using your Porsche 911 / FXXL V1.3 setup from the owner's club, I can feel the road texture very well !! amazing stuff, thanks for sharing it with us

one thing I noticed with the FXX setup was that eventho the road texture feel is amazing, i'm losing abit of feel over the curbs, rumble strips, and when a wheel dip in the dirt.
any idea what setting I should use to bump up these feels?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi, you don't mention what tactile hardware your using. I can give you better specific advice if you share what you use? Also you can gain additional tuning if by chance you have iNuke DSP amps?

Effects don't work on a "surface type basis"
Although it is possible to alter the Hz to suit your units for say "Suspension Bumps" or other specific effect. Possibly to use a tone that they perform well with. If you have common units (those typically under $99 / £99) then they do not deliver sufficient energy with some of the lower frequencies due to their design/performance limitation.

Will try my best to help you out when you confirm what your using friend....

Suggest you also try this SSW and I will forward you my current test profile for it to compare to Simvibe in the same car. I really believe in some ways it's better than Simvibe, those who try will find out for themselves if they agree.

It's possible to use "Simvibe" for certain effects and "SSW" for others or also even incorporate "Audio" tactile. Each brings their own advantages and disadvantages. Slowy if discussion picks up regards the whole tactile topic here then its something that can be covered in detail.

 

[Smoothchat]

Hey Mr Latte, please include me on your distribution list.

I have pretty-well maxed out my budget with the NLMv3 and Buttkicker Gamer2, and I'm looking for ways to further tweak the most I can from what I've got.

I'm currently just using the tactile output of the Platform manager software that came with the motion platform, but I'm interested to learn from you regarding the benefits that SSW can provide.

Thanks.

 

[TrailSlide]

Hello MrLatte,

thank you for your kind help.
i'm using sim vibe, assetto corsa, buttkicker mini lfe x 4 in chassis mode, 2 x Dayton APA-150 amps.
chassis is a RSEAT RS1

with the default simvib config auto-tuned, it doesn't feel nearly as smooth or detailed as yours, but it does have a more distinct feel going over kerbs and dropping a wheel.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey Mr Latte, please include me on your distribution list.

I have pretty-well maxed out my budget with the NLMv3 and Buttkicker Gamer2, and I'm looking for ways to further tweak the most I can from what I've got.

I'm currently just using the tactile output of the Platform manager software that came with the motion platform, but I'm interested to learn from you regarding the benefits that SSW can provide.

Thanks.

Hi, I may have to alter the files I have created for SSW and convert them to "Mono" to operate on a single unit. Please note, I am not linked to SSW, this is just for personal interest and forming a friendship with others. Tweaking my own with a small update and will then have yours forwarded to your PM within a day.

Certainly feel the software deserves more attention/exploration and I've not really seen people attempting to discuss or make profiles for it to share with others. My intention is to get feedback, learn from this to help in future. The profiles could then be submitted to be shared by =Andre= if he wants.
So it's good having a wide range of users using 1-6 units and of various types/models.

I still have an issue on my own system trying to get 6 channel mode working but shall wait in hope someone comes along that has it working and willing to do tests also. Then I can also convert the files to 6 Channel mode too.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello MrLatte,

thank you for your kind help.
i'm using sim vibe, assetto corsa, buttkicker mini lfe x 4 in chassis mode, 2 x Dayton APA-150 amps.
chassis is a RSEAT RS1

with the default simvib config auto-tuned, it doesn't feel nearly as smooth or detailed as yours, but it does have a more distinct feel going over kerbs and dropping a wheel.

Nice little system you have there, thanks for replying.
I enjoy these little challenges or trying in helping people improve they're tactile. So let's see if we can make some improvements to suit your own rig.

I can tell you one reason why this is likely happening.

The FXXL profile uses much lower tones for the "Suspension Bumps" effect compared to those used in default. It was created in mind to work well on various tactile models. So a user with a BK Advance would likely not suffer from the issue you are finding as it is capable of outputting more energy with the lower frequencies.

What you may find is that with the Mini LFE we have less workable frequency range in what I refer to as being the "Feels Good Frequencies". It tends to operate pretty good in the 30Hz - 80Hz with the strongest response likely being from @40-60Hz as a guide. So while being quite punchy, it has a rather limited sweet spot compared to its bigger brothers.

One way to go about this, is test the various effects individually and then decide not to use some of them. This will help improve the potential sensation of the effects you do prefer. Sometimes less happening for a unit that is heavily overwhelmed may, for some people, feel better in clarity or definition when using fewer effects.

I have monitored and analysed what happens when multiple effects are layered and especially when they are using similar frequencies. This can cause problems and hence where "Auto Tune" does what it does. However I did find with some tests that "Auto Tune" is much too aggressive. Also, it has no idea of the tactile unit being used, what effects "you prefer" or how well this unit used operates with various frequencies. Basically, manual tuning will ALWAYS beat auto, it's just learning how/what to do for your own hardware and preferences.

(*TIP - In the "View" tab turn on Clipping Notifications)

Duplicate a fresh version of the profile and adjust:
Suspension F & R
Big 40
Sml 65
Dynamic Tone Sen 15

Roadbumps
Big 50
Sml 75
Dynamic Tone Sen (try 30-40)


Let me know how this goes but it should help improve immersion for you.....

 

[Mr Latte]

So, spent time in another 10 hr session over the last 2 days creating and testing new WAV files for SSW.



This time, my efforts were very positive additions, what I like about SSW is how its approach gives more control (via creating files with Audacity software) to what individual effects will feel like. My continued experimentation here has really brought to my own pleasure a big step forward in having multiple effects not only feel good but also better work in harmony. More control basically means more possibilities and that's in comparison the downside to Simvibes tone generation.

I'd say from this latest testing and improvements found that I now have much better immersion than the FXXL profile done on Simvibe. So I now have SSW feeling really alive, with clear differences in the felt sensations of different effects. Also with greater defined gear changes, damage and stereo imaging for curbs much better than what I could manage in Simvibe.

The only drawback now, is the limitations of the SSW engine effect. Here Simvibe still has the lead in what is possible. If @=Andre= can improve what is possible with them and allow different rev ranges to be utilised with individual files then I really would have no real need to use Simvibe and its laborious layers, various output mixers and old fashioned user interface.

Will continue to pursue my own development of tactile profiles as I really enjoy it...

 

[TrailSlide]

Hello Mr. Latte !

Thank you for your help, with this setting the bump are coming through better now.
I actually set my front alittle bit higher, because the mounting location is less ideal than the rear.

Now I feel like it's just missing detail over small curbs, or maybe higher frequency rumble strips.
Should I adjust the sensitivity for that?

Nice little system you have there, thanks for replying.
I enjoy these little challenges or trying in helping people improve they're tactile. So let's see if we can make some improvements to suit your own rig.

I can tell you one reason why this is likely happening.

The FXXL profile uses much lower tones for the "Suspension Bumps" effect compared to those used in default. It was created in mind to work well on various tactile models. So a user with a BK Advance would likely not suffer from the issue you are finding as it is capable of outputting more energy with the lower frequencies.

What you may find is that with the Mini LFE we have less workable frequency range in what I refer to as being the "Feels Good Frequencies". It tends to operate pretty good in the 30Hz - 80Hz with the strongest response likely being from @40-60Hz as a guide. So while being quite punchy, it has a rather limited sweet spot compared to its bigger brothers.

One way to go about this, is test the various effects individually and then decide not to use some of them. This will help improve the potential sensation of the effects you do prefer. Sometimes less happening for a unit that is heavily overwhelmed may, for some people, feel better in clarity or definition when using fewer effects.

I have monitored and analysed what happens when multiple effects are layered and especially when they are using similar frequencies. This can cause problems and hence where "Auto Tune" does what it does. However I did find with some tests that "Auto Tune" is much too aggressive. Also, it has no idea of the tactile unit being used, what effects "you prefer" or how well this unit used operates with various frequencies. Basically, manual tuning will ALWAYS beat auto, it's just learning how/what to do for your own hardware and preferences.

(*TIP - In the "View" tab turn on Clipping Notifications)

Duplicate a fresh version of the profile and adjust:
Suspension F & R
Big 40
Sml 65
Dynamic Tone Sen 15

Roadbumps
Big 50
Sml 75
Dynamic Tone Sen (try 30-40)


Let me know how this goes but it should help improve immersion for you.....

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello Mr. Latte !

Thank you for your help, with this setting the bump are coming through better now.
I actually set my front alittle bit higher, because the mounting location is less ideal than the rear.

Now I feel like it's just missing detail over small curbs, or maybe higher frequency rumble strips.
Should I adjust the sensitivity for that?

Ahhh thats good.....
Thanks for coming back and letting me know you got some benefit.
You may get additional detail from using the Suspension or Vertical Textures.

Textures/Signal Conditioning:
I believe the value of 1000 is representative to 100Hz and 500 is representative to 50Hz.
This may act a bit like a crossover regards the raw data. So worth trying higher values between 700-1000. Really though from settings little can be done with Textures.

You could set Roadbumps to use 55-85Hz and try increasing these a little.

Characteristic of Kickers tend to lean towards offering less detailing to some of the voice coil based transducers but the Kickers do have better punch. Also the users install/build/materials and placement may be factors in transmitting/absorbing various frequencies. We have noticed and played around with iNuke DSP amps and found it is possible with them to accurately boost the amplitude of individual frequencies to gain more detail than the BK units normally produce.

A rather less accurate way to do this on your own amps may be via a software EQ and boosting slightly the 60Hz band (for your Simvibe Soundcard). Do take care here, as it is possible to add too much gain and make a mess but it might help add more buzz to the mid bass frequencies.

I would suggest you try this with only road bumps, suspension bumps and suspension textures on.
That should be enough to let you feel if a slight difference in boost @ 60Hz is making any improvement or not. This will vary on different peoples rigs and the tactile used.

 

[Dennis Johnson]

Hi Mr Latte,
Finally got my rig finished. Here is a link to my facebook post.

https://www.facebook.com/PTBBBassMan/posts/1526278244060502?pnref=story

 

[Mr Latte]

Problem with that link Dennis

 

[anton_Chez]

I've gotten SSW to actually come on in Dirt 4 now. I am not sure what to think of it to be honest. I know that there needs to be tinkering done to set up properly, but on my setup, it was just noise. Didn't really feel what it was trying to portray at all. I am sure it's a combination of gain setting, and my actual hardware, but on tarmac in Dirt 4 it felt like I was going to break my shakers. I had to stop and actually turn the program off. I went over to my regular Simvibe setup (which has many hours work put into it by myself, Mr Latte and others) and it was just smooth, felt everything I expected to feel.

I am not sure I have the time or patience to nut out a whole new program for something I am actually very happy with currently. I hope that it can rival Simvibe as that means more features and easier to use interface will come to it if it has some competition. I am currently testing motion software for Motion Systems, so might have to pass on this one. Happy to give input where I can though.

 

[Mr Latte]

I can't relate to Dirt 4 as don't have it but do know with the files I currently have (set for my own shakers) the performance in AC is absolutely superb, bettering Simvibe in certain ways, without question. I wonder did you enable the compressor?

Sorry to hear you can't be bothered in having the time/patience to get more involved or test files that can be configured to perhaps suit your Aura Pro. I've easily created and tested over 200 files now in SSW, trying to get better understanding to improve the sensations for my own shakers. Its a learning curve and progress is possible and being made with every new test. What is learned from this and feedback from others can then be applied to building suitable files for other tactile units/models or if specific titles need more or less gain etc. I can't say as I really only bother with testing in AC at this time.

It's clear that SimXperience are not interested in properly working with the community in developing profiles. Nor have they in 5 years created any guidelines for effects usage or even their own profiles for the community. You know my own views/position on this.

In Simvibe we showed in making a profile based on yours and others feedback that it is possible to make a successful profile performing well beyond the default settings that can work on various units, even if they need some specific changes or gain settings to tailor to each persons rig. We highlighted what was possible in "engine effects" using from scratch, only manually created tones and not using the other options the software added in recent time with Harmonics/load or Quad Stream. It was a specific test to see what I could do in not relying in other modes the software used. Yet its results showed with learning and testing or better knowledge of the software what was actually possible and still more was possible as we didn't further on from this but I did myself in private.

Yet you are aware Berney Villers clearly said such profiles are not possible, with such wide varations of installations. He gave zero credit or even encouraged the profile made/shared. So those that happily use the FXXL test profile on a wide range of installations with various tactile and enjoy it perhaps are delusional. For clearly over at SimXperience it appeared that Berney cant be wrong on anything it seems. We seen, that having a different or opposing views to his own are not welcomed and mine certainly were ridiculed. I jest but perhaps some truth in the old saying "his way" or "the highway"

Anyways, other things are also happening and on the horizon regards tactile immersion software options....

I will gladly support those that are interested in supporting and listening to the community to help forward tactile immersion. Not just do what seemingly suits their own commercial interests, business model or to solely promote their own products.

 

[Mr Latte]

@AntoN_CheZ

Something came to mind, try 2 Channel mode and with the sound card dedicated to it.
Set the volume to around 20% and then increase it.

 

[Dennis Johnson]

First time uploading images..... My finished rig. Thanks to all who helped me along the way. It's taken about a year to piece it together. Started with T150 mounted on the desktop.nuthin' else.

GT Omega Pro Cockpit, ASUS 1080p 25" monitors, Oculus Rift with touch controls

Fanatec H Shifter and Fanatec Handbrake

Buttkicker Advanced on both sides of seat for chassis mode

Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals with 2 ADX Maximus on left and right of pedal plate for chassis mode. 1 TST239 mounted in center under the plate for extension mode. 1 Buttkicker Gamer connected to Shifter mount for extension mode

PC: Windows 10 64bit , Gigabyte Z170 Gamer 7 mobo, i7-6700 processor, Gigabyte GTX 1080 extreme gamer video card, 2- 250mb NVME ssds, 3- 1 terabyte sata hard drives, On board sound card running extensions mode, 1 ASUS PCI sound card for Chassis mode, UR44 external USB sound card for game sounds / Speakers

Simracingbay OSW 20nm direct drive wheel, Fanatec BMW GT2 wheel, Fanatec F1 rim, Simracingmachine's USB adapter for Fanatec QR hub. DSD OSW button panels both left and right

Behringer inuke 1000 dsp and 3000 dsp amps

Buttkicker LFE under seat for extension mode

Hope ya like it.