Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[EsxPaul]

@EsxPaul
Its quite clear when you go to order the t.racks DSP what it comes with, (which you highlighted).
Yes it will ship with Euro PSU and UK adapter.

Much fussing over nothing.

Thanks for the confirmation. I did read that description but second guessed myself after reading reviews with some conflicting information. Just trying to plan ahead for contingencies and over fussing which is normal for me I'm still glad I've ordered a UK spec PSU for it as I'd rather not be using Euro plugs and adapters. I want to try and keep things as neat as I can which is the fussy part of me kicking in again!

On a side note, I've just managed to buy 2 BK concerts. Had to pay a bit more than I had intended to but it's another few things ticked off the list. I've now got about 10 different items that should be arriving over the next 4-5 days and can hopefully start setting some of it up

 

[EsxPaul]

Greetings to all the readers and researchers,

Considering the 4 ch amp that has been talked about in this forum, could this option be a good choice, since it comes from an european shop and the other one comes from china and in Portugal there is a considerable chance of being taxed...

https://www.thomann.de/pt/behringer_epq_304_europower.htm

best regards, and thanks for replying...

That amp is one that's highly regarded for powering exiters, although it wouldn't give you the extra control that you'll get from the Douk M4 & DSP combination, more recently recommended by @Mr Latte

The EPQ304 is good enough amp for 4 exciters but for people wanting more control of them we can consider an external DSP solution

 

[Mr Latte]

EPQ304 amp has noisy coil whine, its fans are best replaced in my personal opinion.
Though it is a nice and rack-mountable amp with 75W per channel. This means it is too limited on wattage to constantly power BK Mini units but has additional headroom than needed for 40-50w transducers.

Important:
The Douk M4 I have recommended for powering the "Thruster Exciters" which should be mounted close proximity to seat/pedals. So I doubt the user will need to apply the amps full 40W output to feel good.

Corner Installations & Various Transducers
Some people are still going to buy all kinds of budget tactile transducers and will install to corners or the rigs mainframe.
Those people will be more likely to crank the volume to try and make up for the lost energy that placing in corners/mainframe rather than using close proximity and more controlled volumes.

Reliability?
We will have to see how well the M4 holds up if people are running it at the highest volume levels.
In some cases, the EQP304 amp is maybe more suited with its increased wattage capability as it means the amp will not be continuously running at max output.

I can see people buying the M4 and cranking the crap out of its 40W amps as they won't heed the recommendations. So I'm making it clear now rather than someone later criticize as its never a good thing to have to run an amp at or close to its max capacity.

 

[sn4il]

Is it ok to mount two (2) M4 amps on the motion rig (SFX)? Or its better to keep it off the rig and run longer cables (8'-12')?
I have 8 exciters, all mounted on the seat.
Thank you.
sn4il

 

[Valvestart]

Hello,
I'm new at tactile immersion and I'm trying to build my system. I read about the advantages of having DSP control but I'm finding difficulties to buy a 2nd hand inuke nu1000DSP while is much easier for just a NU1000. Considering that I will end up with 6 channels setup could be a good choice to buy 3 amps and add a Behringer Ultradrive dcx2496 for DSP? Can avoid to buy a 2nd sound card since the Ultradrive can take the signal directly from pc?
Thanks in advance

 

[McClusky]

A BIG thanks to Mr Latte for starting this thread and for sharing his vast knowledge and thanks to the valuable contributors!​

Listed below are tactile items I found in this thread. It may help people that are looking for tactile equipment. They are listed in no particular order and it’s not an all-inclusive list.

If the experienced tactile users would like the list to be arranged differently (like ‘best to worst’ or a ‘recommended’ list) I can do that. Also, let me know if I should add or delete items. (send me a PM to keep this thread clean )

***NOTE*** Just because an item is listed below it does not mean it is the best option so search this thread to see what was said about the item you are interested in.​

Bass Shakers Aura AST-2B-4 Pro Pearl THMP-1 Throne Thump Clark Synthesis TST209 Clark Synthesis TST229 Silver Clark Synthesis TST239 Silver Clark Synthesis TST329 Gold Clark Synthesis TST429 Platinum Reckhorn BS200i ButtKicker Mini LFE ButtKicker LFE ButtKicker Mini Concert ButtKicker Concert ButtKicker Advance ButtKicker Gamer 2 (BK-GR2) ADX Maximus Dayton Audio TT25-8 (pucks) Dayton Audio TT25-16 (pucks) Earthquake - Q10B Powersoft Mover Sinustec ST-BS 250 Sonic Immersion iBeam VT200 Sonic immersion iBeam VT300 BST-1 High Power Pro	Amplifiers Douk Audio M4 t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Fosi Audio BT20A Nobsound NS-15G PRO Nobsound NS 20G Behringer NX4 6000 t.amp E-400 t.amp E4-130 SMSL SA-98E 2x160W Behringer NU1000DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP Behringer NX3000D with DSP Behringer EPQ304 Europower Behringer NX1000D with DSP Behringer NX4-6000 Adcom GFA 2535 Dayton Audio APA150 Dayton Audio SPA250DSP 250W Amplifier with DSP
Exciters Dayton Audio HDN-8 Dayton Audio DAEX32U-4 Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Dayton Audio DAEX32QMB-4	Mixers/Pre Amps Behringer Powerplay HA6000 Behringer Ultralink MS8000 Art Splitmix4 Behringer PowerPlay models
Software to control transducers SimVibe SimHub Sim Commander SimShakerWheels (SSW)	Useful Links Cable & Connectors Guide Tactile Perspective / Audio Terminology Glossary Do You Have This Combo? Behringer Inuke DSP Amplifier & Buttkicker? Simvibe : Comparing EM Vs CM Installations

 

[Squared Circle]

@McClusky
I'd like to add the shakers I'm using:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1245/bst-1-high-power-pro-tactile-bass-shaker-50-watts
and the amp t.amp E4-130
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tamp_...iLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0=
which is basically the 4-channel variant of the E-400 already listed.

Thanks for the work of putting everything in one place!

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello,
I'm new at tactile immersion and I'm trying to build my system. I read about the advantages of having DSP control but I'm finding difficulties to buy a 2nd hand inuke nu1000DSP while is much easier for just a NU1000. Considering that I will end up with 6 channels setup could be a good choice to buy 3 amps and add a Behringer Ultradrive dcx2496 for DSP? Can avoid to buy a 2nd sound card since the Ultradrive can take the signal directly from pc?
Thanks in advance

The Ultradrive only supports 2 input channels.
It may have 6 channel outputs but that's to allow a user to distribute specifically controlled frequencies (from the source) individually for example to a Subwoofer, Main Driver & Tweeter.

You pay typically £50-£60 more for the DSP in the Behringer models over the standard amp versions. This will add up with each amp of course. Some DSP hardware like that of Mini DSP brand also has some excellent options but you can easily spend several hundred to achieve a unit that supports 6 or more inputs. So they while very nice, seem crazy when 2x t.racks units would offer much of the same control and to that extent, you find the Behringer DSP isn't that badly priced at all and doesn't require additional cables as well as offer digital volume limiter.

Best DSP & Control?
By my own journey or experience I'd say using iPad and AUM with audio interface. Or the interface connected to a PC/iMac DAW is what will bring the best control when used with professional audio plugins. This then, doesn't limit you to the fixed hardware functionality of say a single device. It opens the door to professional audio tools and lets you visually see the audios frequency operation. With AUM you can easily attach or use multiple plugins on any or all channels you desire. I will showcase this in my own build with supported functionality using an iPad controlled via Korg Bluetooth Midi Controller and Magic Trackpad for instant viewing or control of 18 Simhub channels.

 

[Valvestart]

Thanks for your reply, this world is new and very interesting to me. I look forward to see your showcase to take it as reference for building my rig. Could you suggest a convenient audio interface?

 

[Valvestart]

Thanks to McKlusky for the useful list

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for your reply, this world is new and very interesting to me. I look forward to see your showcase to take it as reference for building my rig. Could you suggest a convenient audio interface?

What I am doing is overkill, no question about that but in some ways its been pretty cool over the last few years, to look into many options or try different things. It helped me learn a lot just by self-exploration and understanding more from research about how audio tones and harmonics work. I still have plenty more to learn or improve on.

As for interfaces, what to recommend depends on how many channels you want to control/use. More channels will mean more expensive. 2 channel units can let you visualize/compare stereo effects and come in around £100 or more. Obviously a 4 channel unit lets you monitor effects to each wheel/suspension if desired. A 6 channel will let you also see that but with RPM or SPEED and 8 channels can be used for all that but then also longitudinal G for acceleration/deceleration and braking. Its all pretty cool but more towards an enthusiast level.

4 channel - 8 channel units will vary from about £150 - £300 and can go way much higher.
It depends on brand/model preferred. You also need to route cables from soundcard to interface and then to amp.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

For anyone looking to take a similar route in securing and covering the wires going to the shakers on their seat. I sell 3M 2080 car wrapping vinyl and have built up quite a lot of offcuts that I can offer for free (to people in the UK due to postage). The gloss black option has worked great for me. It's a close finish to my SimLab Speed 1 seat and I'm sure it would match many others with a gloss black finish. It's a very thin material, so wraps nicely against the wires and can easily be removed at a later date without causing any damage. I've only so many offcuts, but if you think they'll help you, drop me a DM and I'll get some sent out for you.

 

[Valvestart]

What I am doing is overkill, no question about that but in some ways its been pretty cool over the last few years, to look into many options or try different things. It helped me learn a lot just by self-exploration and understanding more from research about how audio tones and harmonics work. I still have plenty more to learn or improve on.

As for interfaces, what to recommend depends on how many channels you want to control/use. More channels will mean more expensive. 2 channel units can let you visualize/compare stereo effects and come in around £100 or more. Obviously a 4 channel unit lets you monitor effects to each wheel/suspension if desired. A 6 channel will let you also see that but with RPM or SPEED and 8 channels can be used for all that but then also longitudinal G for acceleration/deceleration and braking. Its all pretty cool but more towards an enthusiast level.

4 channel - 8 channel units will vary from about £150 - £300 and can go way much higher.
It depends on brand/model preferred. You also need to route cables from soundcard to interface and then to amp.

Behringer does good products at lower prices but seems it doesn't cover 6 channels audio interface, from 4 next would be 18/20 channels. In these days from internet I figured out that 5/6 channels is a setup that gives the most at a reasonable cost for my pockets. I'm thinking to use Simvibe with four mini LFE in chassis mode and and in extension mode one Advance and one Clark both fed with the same signals. I belive I can include the 'longitudinal G for acceleration/deceleration and braking' in the EM or maybe not?
Thinking that there is a lot to loose with 4 channels in place of 6 the best Audio interface I found would be a Native instruments, any suggestion for alternatives are welcome.
Maybe using a 2nd pc I have with an internal 6 ch sound card to buy would do the job at cheaper cost?

 

[Mr Latte]

Behringer does good products at lower prices but seems it doesn't cover 6 channels audio interface, from 4 next would be 18/20 channels. In these days from internet I figured out that 5/6 channels is a setup that gives the most at a reasonable cost for my pockets. I'm thinking to use Simvibe with four mini LFE in chassis mode and and in extension mode one Advance and one Clark both fed with the same signals. I belive I can include the 'longitudinal G for acceleration/deceleration and braking' in the EM or maybe not?
Thinking that there is a lot to loose with 4 channels in place of 6 the best Audio interface I found would be a Native instruments, any suggestion for alternatives are welcome.
Maybe using a 2nd pc I have with an internal 6 ch sound card to buy would do the job at cheaper cost?

Seriously, If you're considering to still use Simvibe then you cant of read much of this thread.
Simvibe does not support (not used in about 18 months) G-Force based effects for tactile and to be honest much has happened since it first released in 2012. In fairness with no major improvements, its old hat now compared to what Simhub offers and does better which can be had for a small donation to the developer.

Dont take my word for it, ask others.

Yes the Behringer UMC 1820 model is cheaper than some other brands for 4,6 or 8 channels. Although it does seem to be getting excellent user reports and reviews. I just sold one of my first units (Focustrite 18i8) last week and it was a nice model.
Its now onto its 3rd generation and they did 6 and 8 input versions. Steinberg is another but more costly.

 

[Valvestart]

Seriously, If you're considering to still use Simvibe then you cant of read much of this thread.
Simvibe does not support (not used in about 18 months) G-Force based effects for tactile and to be honest much has happened since it first released in 2012. In fairness with no major improvements, its old hat now compared to what Simhub offers and does better which can be had for a small donation to the developer.

Dont take my word for it, ask others.

That means I made a big mistake, I've just bought few days ago Simvibe. I supposed it was the best but I understand I read too old posts.

 

[EsxPaul]

Would anyone who has a large BK be able to give me a couple of dimensions if possible? I'd like to make sure I have the correct nuts, bolts and washers for them

1) The diameter of the 4x mounting holes
2) The thickness of the feet where those mounting holes are

 

[Mr Latte]

I think its M6 that will fit but the proper bolts from BK are carriage bolts in that they have a square peg.
If you bought 2nd hand then you may be able to get spare bolts from the nice chaps at ShakerCenter.

See official webpage for specs

 

[EsxPaul]

I think its M6 that will fit but the proper bolts from BK are carriage bolts in that they have a square peg.
If you bought 2nd hand then you may be able to get spare bolts from the nice chaps at ShakerCenter.

See official webpage for specs

Thanks. I did notice square holes for carriage bolts on some of the accessory mounting brackets but not on the BKs themselves. Could be that the ones I have coming are slightly older, although they do have the banana connectors so hopefully they won't be ancient.

 

[Chrhun]

Is there a solution add shakers to a bucket seat with strong adhesive or Velcro tms? The bottom of the seat is smooth, and I wouldn't like to make holes. I'm thinking the AuraSound AST-2B-4

How much do I lose with an setup like this compares to just drilling holes and hard mounting?

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks. I did notice square holes for carriage bolts on some of the accessory mounting brackets but not on the BKs themselves. Could be that the ones I have coming are slightly older, although they do have the banana connectors so hopefully they won't be ancient.

I think Im the one getting mixed up as its the BK plates that have the square holes and carriage bolts.
Nearly certain its M6 size bolts will fit the holes in the feet for LFE / Concert