So you think you know about force feedback?

[Cote Dazur]

I recommend watching this video many times, as with each new watching it helps clarifying what is really demonstrated.
I am now coming to the realization that judging the quality of the physic trough what the force feedback is communicating is misguided. I have been guilty of that in the past, thinking FFB comes from the physic. When listening carefully on what Neil’s says and demonstrate, it is obviously not the case. You could tweak the FFB to get a believable driving feeling even if the physic is very basic and the opposite can happen as well.
FFB communicates a combination of basic forces, FFB settings will alter how we feel those forces in the wheel. Realistic physic has not much to do with what we end up getting trough the wheel.
I wish that we get more enlightened information from developers and better conversation from other community members. The more we understand the better our experience will be.
As it is now, the content in most post and thread is more like people exchanging about superstitions. After all this time, most of us, including me, can only express what we like best, not really understanding why and in the worst case just spreading lies, thinking we are honest, when trying to explain what we think we have understood when that ever happens.

 

[Metla]

Come on, everyone (well, Legit sim-racers) knows FFB was perfected on Richard Burns Rally back in 2004.

Everything since has just been developers demonstrating how little they know (compared to legit sim-racers)

 

[mantasisg]

I recommend watching this video many times, as with each new watching it helps clarifying what is really demonstrated.
I am now coming to the realization that judging the quality of the physic trough what the force feedback is communicating is misguided. I have been guilty of that in the past, thinking FFB comes from the physic. When listening carefully on what Neil’s says and demonstrate, it is obviously not the case. You could tweak the FFB to get a believable driving feeling even if the physic is very basic and the opposite can happen as well.
FFB communicates a combination of basic forces, FFB settings will alter how we feel those forces in the wheel. Realistic physic has not much to do with what we end up getting trough the wheel.
I wish that we get more enlightened information from developers and better conversation from other community members. The more we understand the better our experience will be.
As it is now, the content in most post and thread is more like people exchanging about superstitions. After all this time, most of us, including me, can only express what we like best, not really understanding why and in the worst case just spreading lies, thinking we are honest, when trying to explain what we think we have understood when that ever happens.

WTF

I too recomend you watching the video many times.

 

[Cote Dazur]

WTF

I too recomend you watching the video many times.

Always a good idea, but what are you saying?

Are you saying we cannot tell what good physic is without FFB?
Or are you saying that the depth of physic, like better tyre calculations, will be felt differently in the FFB?

It seems to me that their is a few forces that we get feedback on, those forces are present in any SIM and how they are transmitted is more relevant to what we feel than the depth of calculations and/or interpretations from developers based on the original car physic.

There is probably only so much the FFB is able to communicate and we have also probably gone beyond that threshold in all the SIM we like a long time ago. We are getting better and better physic, but FFB has been the same for a long time. Same can be said for the hardware we are using to get the feedback from.

In that regards, trying to evaluate the validity of simulation trough the forces applied to the wheel via FFB is neither accurate or relevant, therefore most dithyrambic comments about how great a SIM physic is because we particularly like how the FFB speak to us are mostly delusional at best in trying to evaluate the physic underlaying that SIM..

So in conclusion, bad FFB does not always equate bad Physic and the reverse could also be true, but in the second case the car behavior in the game, with or without FFB is probably going to be suspicious.

 

[Durge Driven]

FFB affected by real time physics vs canned effects ?
No two I have exhibit the same behavior ?
However real life when you drive precise and steady with low lateral force you feel very little.
There lies one problem, how many here flog cars through corners ?
The huge majority on the road have never done as much as a handbrake turn.
How would they have any idea what forces feel like in real life.