SimXperience GS-5 Seat

[Joe Extraknow]

The g-seat gives tactile cue, not motion cue. Your inner earring will not sense any motion from g-seat tactile. It works because of Newton’s 3rd law.​

 

[Magiashkii]

I don't think its a question of opposition, more opinion on what effects one believes provides the most immersion or translation of Car sensations in a racing simulator. I think everyone would agree each has its merits. Back to the GS-5 more of a question as we await delivery...Does anyone know how much power the seats will draw? how many USB connections etc?

It uses 1 USB port and power I'm not sure, I just plug it into a standard outlet

 

[saxxon66]

The g-seat gives tactile cue, not motion cue. Your inner earring will not sense any motion from g-seat tactile. It works because of Newton’s 3rd law.​

Sure, it is called 3rd law of motion.
It means that pushing on an object causes that object to push back against you.
So these are motion cues too, I call them "Forces".

But what is your point?

 

[RobertR1]

someone with a GS-5 is you have sonoma raceway on iracing, can you please go through T3 and and T3A and share what you feel in the car? I know exactly what those feel like irl so be curious to see what gets translated with the G-Seat.

 

[Joe Extraknow]

Sure, it is called 3rd law of motion.
It means that pushing on an object causes that object to push back against you.
So these are motion cues too, I call them "Forces".

But what is your point?

Nop, you body dose not move. You brain cannot sense moving.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Nop, you body dose not move. You brain cannot sense moving.

There are 2 effects created by G-Seat paddles:

1) Your body actually moves - it pushes you out of the way instead of you being pushed into it
2) You feel the force as pressure on your body

 

[saxxon66]

Nop, you body dose not move. You brain cannot sense moving.

Hm, my brain can sense the pressure going to my body.

Not with my inner ears (vestibular) like acceleration but with my skin.
Did you know, you can even feel acceleration with your skin.

You want us to know that the G-Seat will only put pressure on us?
For the most part I think so, but this is why I asked if it is strong enough to lift the body up for some kind of heave effect.
And if so how does it feel?

 

[Joe Extraknow]

Hm, my brain can sense the pressure going to my body.

Not with my inner ears (vestibular) like acceleration but with my skin.
Did you know, you can even feel acceleration with your skin.

As I said, it is tactile cue.

Btw, On the motion rig. Correct way is 3x config for 3dof motion. The 4x d-box config cannot produce 3dof.

 

[saxxon66]

As I said, it is tactile cue.

Btw, On the motion rig. Correct way is 3x config for 3dof motion. The 4x d-box config cannot produce 3dof.

Seems like you are an expert, haha
I am out

 

[Magiashkii]

Hm, my brain can sense the pressure going to my body.

Not with my inner ears (vestibular) like acceleration but with my skin.
Did you know, you can even feel acceleration with your skin.

You want us to know that the G-Seat will only put pressure on us?
For the most part I think so, but this is why I asked if it is strong enough to lift the body up for some kind of heave effect.
And if so how does it feel?

It will not lift up your body for heave... You need a system like dbox that moves the entire rig

 

[anton_Chez]

It will not lift up your body for heave... You need a system like dbox that moves the entire rig

Yes. 3 x actuators, actually.

.......

 

[BenKay]

As I said, it is tactile cue.

Btw, On the motion rig. Correct way is 3x config for 3dof motion. The 4x d-box config cannot produce 3dof.

How so?

 

[Joe Extraknow]

How so?

1) if your skin senses some thing, then it is tactile.

2) Place 4 actuators on 4 corners cannot produce accurate 3DOF motion if SW is not carefully designed for such special 4x 3dof casea. DOF --- degree of freedom. Such config will not have 4 actuators freely independently move. However, you can reconfigure them to a 4dof motion would be much better imo. Or just using 3 actuators to get a full 3dof. Or just using 2 actuators for 2dof that will be far better than 4x d-box. Check the SRG video on d-box review to see comment section the comments by the guy owns both 2x d-box vs 4x d-box...

Just thought, hope helpful.

 

[BenKay]

I don't understand why 4 actuators cannot do 3DOF?

Do you have a diagram or article that explains that?

 

[anton_Chez]

It's stupid. Pitch, Roll and Heave. 3DOF. It doesn't make any sense what he's saying. I haven't tried a 3 actuator setup so I cannot say how it performs against a 4 actuator build. Even if you had 3 actuators with the rear one being horizontal for traction loss, you still only end up with 3DOF, Pitch, Roll, Yaw. You miss out on Heave because you cannot properly simulate suspension with only 2 actuators. As with a seat mover.

Anyway....

 

[BenKay]

It's stupid. Pitch, Roll and Heave. 3DOF. It doesn't make any sense what he's saying. I haven't tried a 3 actuator setup so I cannot say how it performs against a 4 actuator build. Even if you had 3 actuators with the rear one being horizontal for traction loss, you still only end up with 3DOF, Pitch, Roll, Yaw. You miss out on Heave because you cannot properly simulate suspension with only 2 actuators. As with a seat mover.

Anyway....

Thanks Anton, that's what I thought. glad to have confirmation it's not me with my wires crossed!

 

[Joe Extraknow]

I don't understand why 4 actuators cannot do 3DOF?

Do you have a diagram or article that explains that?

Here maybe help out....the DoF means "degree of freedom". If you are engineering major you will understand what is meaning. Place 4 actuators on 4 corners cannot produce 3 Degree of Freedom motion accurately if not carefully designed. 4x drivers for 3dof restrict the actuators moving independently (freely). They may not be visible to your eye but they struggle while moving. There is no theory or principle base to support such configuration in motion platform design. Let me give you simple example, if you have a turntable (LP player or record player), you will find there is only three legs under the bottom let you move 3dof level the player. You just cannot have 4 legs .... it will not work.

YOu can configure 4 actuators to a 4DoF like this, that 4 actuators will be freely and independent move with full resolution as inputed:

Or use 3 only will do full 3DoF:

 

[BenKay]

OK. I understand what you're saying....but any D-Box or SFX-100 type system I've seen tends to have all actuators solidly mounted to the rig (that is to say any actuator movement has an impact only in the up/down axis)....to do any of the above you've shown, the actuators need to pivot in their mounting.

But the way d-box and similar actuators are typically used, it's wrong to say a 3 actuator system can do more than a 4 actuator system.

 

[Joe Extraknow]

But the way d-box and similar actuators are typically used, it's wrong to say a 3 actuator system can do more than a 4 actuator system.

It comes down very subjective in this regard. I knew the guy who started using 2x D-box about 8-9 years ago, and then he wanted 4x with one on each corner, asked D-box sales to support that. He later got that....he likes.
But others are other way around (said 2x far better than 4x), recently, when the SRG review video came out, I saw the guy comments on. Here are what he said:

"I have a race center with several DBox sims, here are some points I have: - Why are you turning vibration off? It makes a huge difference and makes the experience much better. Even if you have bass shakers, I think you should turn them off and have the vibration from dbox. They are much stronger for sure. - You definitely didn't need the 4400i model, the 4250i is more than enough for your setup - Shockingly, I actually had a 4250i system, and 2250i system, and myself and everyone who tried both, all said the 2250i felt much better. You really need to try it. The 2250i system feels much more composed, predictable and realistic. Might be hard to believe, but it truly is much better. - With that said, a 2250i system is around 5000$. So, you can have the awesome Dbox motion system for a much more reasonable price than the 17k you have."

"With the 4250i, the cockpit feels like itsfloating in the air, and theres too much going on. Regarding heave, the travel is only 1.5inches, so you cant really distinguish between the heave compared to roll and pitch. With the 2250i, there are only 2 actuators, the cockpit feels much more solid, predictable, and more precise in the movement, you can tell exactly whats going on so it relates much better to the visual. Overall, the amount of motion you get is no less than the 4250i at all, you get plenty of motion and vibration from 2 actuators, just much more precise, which as a result, is more enjoyable and feels more realistic. English is not my first language so hopefully I was able to describe it well enough."

 

[BenKay]

Like you said, it seems to be very personal judgement and is about "feel" rather than additional DOF or anything like that.

It would seem to me that mimicking the movements and feelings of a car, which travels on 4 suspension units (one in each corner), is best done with an actuator in each corner. I for one can certainly feel the sensations of heave that you get from 4 actuators on the 4250i system, even with only 1.5" of travel.