Sim racers are an easy target

[Rob Every]

Now bear with me here, this is going to wind a few of you up.

I just added up the RRP of everything for this game on Steam, no offers, and it adds up to £85.

I am guessing most of you think that is good value, but I beg to differ.

It is only good value because a lot of you maybe compare it to other games or Iracing, but in general terms let's compare it to other games.

I am currently playing God of War, that has no DLC, and retail sets you back about 40 quid. Full game, no addons, Some games I imagine cost far more or are similar price wise.

Sim comparison F1 2020 say, all content 64 quid. Automobilista season pass is 80 quid. I cant work out DR 2.0 but I think if you bought everything from release full price it was over 100. The basics games gives you a few cars and tracks for 40 odd quid, now that is a total rip off if you ask me and its because the game was about a third of a game on release.

Why is it that sim racers are so easy to exploit? I know we are not alone here, most games do it now, but with Dirt Rally 2.0 really showed what exploiting a tiny population can rake in if you di it. Literally selling old content as new. You are so easy to manipulate, new physics, tyres, Oh yes we'll pay 40 quid for 8 tracks and about 10 cars! Bless.

Fair enough this game is new, it feels new, and the content is good and you can get it on sale as you can now for cheaper.

But the fact remains sim developers really do exploit sim gamers, and why? Because on the whole most of you are desperate or dumb enough to just forget what games ought to cost. And pay whatever they want you to pay. Just like SKY, Amazon, Disney, Netflix etc.

Now that's a harsh comment I know, but take a look here, if you always do it, guess what happens, that cost keeps on rising, more DLC keeps coming and they market it as unmissable and you MUST have it, but really is it such a good idea? Eventually a game with all content will be 200 quid plus and you are making companies vast profits who in the past would have to work harder for their money, you make it easier and easier for them to exploit you.

Kunos announced recently they had made 100 million recently, couldn't they just release a bit more with the game from new instead of basically releasing half a game? Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

[Gergo Panker]

Sadly the world is all too often full of people hitting "like" and doing nothing else.

And the same world is full of people who see conspiracy and guile everywhere and dedicate a life to untangling rocks.
Vote with your wallet, pay what you wanna pay for, get a refund if you have to, leave a negative review.
This is the purest form of capitalism, whatever is bound to fail, will fail, and you can sit back with a smile of achievement.

 

[guidofoc]

Delete (I went a tad too far).

 

[demetri]

ACC is more of a longer term project, that was released with the barest minimum content with the intention of maximising profit from DLC as much as possible.

What? The content ACC was released with was in no way less than what the last similar game (GTR2) had, but it was made up to the modern day standards of details: all 2018 Blancpain GT tracks and the whole roster of GT3 cars, weather and day/night transitions. 2019 cars were added in a free update a few months later. The only feature missing compared to GTR2 has been the driving school. You can point to a bazillion of bugs that plagued the release version and performance issues and that would be a valid point, but calling it "barest minimum content" is not fair.

As for "maximizing profits" and "business plans", well, this is a business, not a charity. Businesses need revenue and a plans to operate. Those who don't have that usually don't last for long and go bankrupt, which in this case would mean no new games or DLCs. Would that be better?

And Kunos' DLCs prices have been OK so far. What they charge is hardly "maximizing". Just look at how much competitors' content costs.

 

[BabyGotBackmarker]

This has become an old-man-yelling-at-clouds thread. You can complain about anything if you look hard enough, but if your first emotion regarding sim racing isn't joy, there's something wrong with you.

 

[Deleted member 379375]

I don't make posts to be liked by sycophantic people

I am not calling any body names,

Project Cars had a fast turn around as does the F1 franchise.
I'll stick with products with a longer development cycle and DLC thanks.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I got curious, and as I have GTR and GT Legends stored, I went to look if I still had pricetags on them. I did. Granted, GTR was bought after GT Legends in a "Most Wanted" edition - like Playstations platinum games. So I got it way cheaper. Had to look around a bit, and found that GTR was sold for the same price as GT Legends in Norway. 349 NOK. I guess GTR2 was sold for the same (this is 33 EUR or 29 GBP).
ACC is currently 379 NOK on Steam. (So that's 37 EUR or 32 GBP) I do know it was 45 EUR on Steam at one point, so that is 460 NOK.

So, next step is looking at inflation. GTR 1 was released in 2004, GT Legends in 2005 and GTR 2 in 2006. So I'll take the avg. 2005 as a starting point, and look at the price. 349 NOK in 2005 is 484 NOK in 2021. That means, even if we take the highest point of price that ACC have had, if we add inflation, the game was more expensive in 2005 than it is today.

All DLC for ACC is currently 561 NOK, so alltogether this is 940 NOK (92 EUR, 79 GBP) for ACC and all DLC.
If you were to buy GTR1, GT Legends and GTR2 when those were released. That would set you back 1047 NOK over roughly the same period of time as ACC+DLC's has been released (or 1451NOK if you add inflation).

I struggle to see that it's so much more expensive today than it was "back then".

EDIT: Obviously as I live in Norway and use Norwegian prices, I also use Norwegian inflation.

 

[Serge.M]

I got curious, and as I have GTR and GT Legends stored, I went to look if I still had pricetags on them. I did. Granted, GTR was bought after GT Legends in a "Most Wanted" edition - like Playstations platinum games. So I got it way cheaper. Had to look around a bit, and found that GTR was sold for the same price as GT Legends in Norway. 349 NOK. I guess GTR2 was sold for the same (this is 33 EUR or 29 GBP).
ACC is currently 379 NOK on Steam. (So that's 37 EUR or 32 GBP) I do know it was 45 EUR on Steam at one point, so that is 460 NOK.

So, next step is looking at inflation. GTR 1 was released in 2004, GT Legends in 2005 and GTR 2 in 2006. So I'll take the avg. 2005 as a starting point, and look at the price. 349 NOK in 2005 is 484 NOK in 2021. That means, even if we take the highest point of price that ACC have had, if we add inflation, the game was more expensive in 2005 than it is today.

All DLC for ACC is currently 561 NOK, so alltogether this is 940 NOK (92 EUR, 79 GBP) for ACC and all DLC.
If you were to buy GTR1, GT Legends and GTR2 when those were released. That would set you back 1047 NOK over roughly the same period of time as ACC+DLC's has been released (or 1451NOK if you add inflation).

I struggle to see that it's so much more expensive today than it was "back then".

EDIT: Obviously as I live in Norway and use Norwegian prices, I also use Norwegian inflation.

There is no room for logic and sense in this conversation! Haha

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

There is no room for logic and sense in this conversation! Haha

Oh, sorry! Guess I'll just

 

[Majuh]

I got curious, and as I have GTR and GT Legends stored, I went to look if I still had pricetags on them. I did. Granted, GTR was bought after GT Legends in a "Most Wanted" edition - like Playstations platinum games. So I got it way cheaper. Had to look around a bit, and found that GTR was sold for the same price as GT Legends in Norway. 349 NOK. I guess GTR2 was sold for the same (this is 33 EUR or 29 GBP).
ACC is currently 379 NOK on Steam. (So that's 37 EUR or 32 GBP) I do know it was 45 EUR on Steam at one point, so that is 460 NOK.

So, next step is looking at inflation. GTR 1 was released in 2004, GT Legends in 2005 and GTR 2 in 2006. So I'll take the avg. 2005 as a starting point, and look at the price. 349 NOK in 2005 is 484 NOK in 2021. That means, even if we take the highest point of price that ACC have had, if we add inflation, the game was more expensive in 2005 than it is today.

All DLC for ACC is currently 561 NOK, so alltogether this is 940 NOK (92 EUR, 79 GBP) for ACC and all DLC.
If you were to buy GTR1, GT Legends and GTR2 when those were released. That would set you back 1047 NOK over roughly the same period of time as ACC+DLC's has been released (or 1451NOK if you add inflation).

I struggle to see that it's so much more expensive today than it was "back then".

EDIT: Obviously as I live in Norway and use Norwegian prices, I also use Norwegian inflation.

Full games automatically offer better value for money than DLCs, though. Additionally, you were also able to sell games after playing them or buy used games back in the days.

 

[maelstrom]

ACC is more of a longer term project, that was released with the barest minimum content with the intention of maximising profit from DLC as much as possible.

That’s simply not correct! ACC was released complete with every car and track needed to race in what was then the Blancpain (now GT World Challenge) series. You didn’t, and still don’t, need any DLC to race in that series. The DLC just adds extra series’ to the game for those who may want to try something different from what was originally offered.

ACC was (and still is) a complete package with no requirement to add DLC. Once you’ve bought the game, you don’t need to spend a penny more on DLC to play it. Why does that seem to be so difficult for you to accept?

 

[DrRob]

I bought Baldur's Gate in EA. Look at how much this game was selling and you know that ACC is a good value for money. GT4 DLC is not needed to race multiclass with the original game content.
So what @maelstrom said is absolutely bang on.

 

[Rob Every]

I personally dont think that 8 or so tracks and the same amount of cars is worthy of being a full game, regardless of it being a full series.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Full games automatically offer better value for money than DLCs, though. Additionally, you were also able to sell games after playing them or buy used games back in the days.

That's moving the goalposts though. Us being able to sell a game or not, are not really relevant in terms of pricing.

Full games automatically offer better value for money indeed. However, GTR1 was the FIA GT 2003 season. GTR2 was the FIA GT 2003 and 2004 season. Which means, for GTR2, you got the GTR1 content, plus the tracks not used in 2003 ( Valencia, Hockenheim, Imola, Dubai and Zhuhai). You got some bug fixes, some extra features, and a dynamic weather that didn't work as well as in GTR1. You also got a Maserati in the GT class and a couple of extra Spa-cars. Plus the updated liveries etc.

In the Intercontinental GT Pack for ACC you get 4 tracks (one less than GTR2 got in comparison to GTR1), no new cars, but 45 liveries, 30 teams and new game modes. The GT4 pack was 11 new cars with liveries (the price for those two packs are the same as GTR2).
The 2020 GT World pack is essentially what GTR2 was for GTR1, the next season. In that DLC you get the two new cars, the new track, and liveries etc. that are for the new season.
British GT is three new tracks, and the liveries etc. for the British season.

However, opposed to lets say GTR1 and GTR2, you can still play with the ones who only has the original stuff. And the game is constantly getting updated, it's not at its end of life yet.

The differences between GTR1 and GTR2 isn't massive if you look at the differences between ACC when released and ACC now after added features, fixes and DLC's.
Yes, I know they had GTL in there, but even removing GTL and adding inflation.
GTR1 & GTR2 at release cost the equivalent of 970NOK today. ACC with DLC's is 940NOK today.
Seeing how you get more extra cars and extra tracks, and a continuing support for what's essentially the same price, I really don't see the issue.

 

[Rob Every]

I think it is simply the way it is done.

I worked out that over the years of playing several sims, I would be happy to pay 40 or 50 quid for a game that was designed, finished and done. Patches etc over time yes but one cost.

I dont think if you offered AC in its current state of pricing for £85 at release you would get anywhere near as many buyers.

Companies know this which is why they don't do it, a lot of this stuff would have been in development with the game originally, I know most stuff in DR 2.0 was for instance.

I guess ACC falls between a normal yearly game and Iracing in that it will be around for years, not a yearly patch like FIFA or F1 games, You can get away with buying one of those every 5 years and really not find much different.

As people have said a game that is around for years offering content every 6 months or so is fair, but even then it increases the price of the game beyond it's original price, something not EVERY game does. I know we are not comparing like for like, but look at GT sport, yes massive initial sales, but so do games like CoD etc, yet Yamauchi decided against DLC largely, others working in the console market exploited it fully, so it IS a choice.

And I repeat, I have no issue with actual cost, I believe that is fair over time, my issue is with releasing a game with minimal content in full knowledge that more will be issued as DLC, when you could probably wait a while, release the whole thing for say 50-60£. But that does not keep the accountants and shareholders at bay now does it.

 

[miker]

I have 700 hours in ACC, I've spent £70 on it, (early access + all DLC). £0.10 per hour is phenomenal value...I'll be delighted to keep on buying the DLC for as long as Kunos want to keep making them.

if only everything in life was so cheap.

 

[Serge.M]

I worked out that over the years of playing several sims, I would be happy to pay 40 or 50 quid for a game that was designed, finished and done.

I know we are not comparing like for like, but look at GT sport, yes massive initial sales, but so do games like CoD etc, yet Yamauchi decided against DLC largely, others working in the console market exploited it fully, so it IS a choice.

So on these two paragraphs, would you be happy to wait an extra 5 years before you got your hands on the game? AC early access was available in 2013 and it wasn’t complete until 2018, so the only way you could have had it as complete is wait until 2018 instead of having it in 2013, would you be OK with that?

And with GT, remind me, what do you have to have again to race online, and who is Polyphony Digital owned by? So that one is much closer to iRacing then AC, ACC or rFactor, etc...

 

[Gevatter]

I personally dont think that 8 or so tracks and the same amount of cars is worthy of being a full game, regardless of it being a full series.

ACC without DLC has 11 tracks and 17 cars. So I guess GP Legends wasn't a full game then, with its 11 tracks and 7 cars?

What's the content threshold for a game to be complete?

 

[Serge.M]

ACC without DLC has 11 tracks and 17 cars. So I guess GP Legends wasn't a full game then, with its 11 tracks and 7 cars?

What's the content threshold for a game to be complete?

Really the GT Europe series wasn’t a complete racing series because it only included 11 tracks and 17 cars... haha

 

[Rob Every]

Where do you get 17 cars from? Sorry I only count about 11 the rest are Evos, I know you are sticking up for the game, but cmon let's be realistic, or you will be saying 10 as different livery is different car!

 

[Gevatter]

Where do you get 17 cars from? Sorry I only count about 11 the rest are Evos, I know you are sticking up for the game, but cmon let's be realistic, or you will be saying 10 as different livery is different car!

This is the 2018 lineup:

Cars 2018

Competitor car information for the Fanatec GT World Challenge Europe Powered by AWS. GT3 Sports Cars

www.gt-world-challenge-europe.com

I count 17 cars there.

2019 brought the new Aston Martin Vantage V8.

Cars 2019

Competitor car information for the Fanatec GT World Challenge Europe Powered by AWS. GT3 Sports Cars

www.gt-world-challenge-europe.com

So thats 18 cars, sorry for my mistake. At least try to be informed about the things you complain about.

Edit: I forgot the McLaren 720s, which was added to the base game later on for the McLaren Shadow Competition, albeit without any official liveries. So that would be 19 cars then.