Sim racers are an easy target

[Rob Every]

Now bear with me here, this is going to wind a few of you up.

I just added up the RRP of everything for this game on Steam, no offers, and it adds up to £85.

I am guessing most of you think that is good value, but I beg to differ.

It is only good value because a lot of you maybe compare it to other games or Iracing, but in general terms let's compare it to other games.

I am currently playing God of War, that has no DLC, and retail sets you back about 40 quid. Full game, no addons, Some games I imagine cost far more or are similar price wise.

Sim comparison F1 2020 say, all content 64 quid. Automobilista season pass is 80 quid. I cant work out DR 2.0 but I think if you bought everything from release full price it was over 100. The basics games gives you a few cars and tracks for 40 odd quid, now that is a total rip off if you ask me and its because the game was about a third of a game on release.

Why is it that sim racers are so easy to exploit? I know we are not alone here, most games do it now, but with Dirt Rally 2.0 really showed what exploiting a tiny population can rake in if you di it. Literally selling old content as new. You are so easy to manipulate, new physics, tyres, Oh yes we'll pay 40 quid for 8 tracks and about 10 cars! Bless.

Fair enough this game is new, it feels new, and the content is good and you can get it on sale as you can now for cheaper.

But the fact remains sim developers really do exploit sim gamers, and why? Because on the whole most of you are desperate or dumb enough to just forget what games ought to cost. And pay whatever they want you to pay. Just like SKY, Amazon, Disney, Netflix etc.

Now that's a harsh comment I know, but take a look here, if you always do it, guess what happens, that cost keeps on rising, more DLC keeps coming and they market it as unmissable and you MUST have it, but really is it such a good idea? Eventually a game with all content will be 200 quid plus and you are making companies vast profits who in the past would have to work harder for their money, you make it easier and easier for them to exploit you.

Kunos announced recently they had made 100 million recently, couldn't they just release a bit more with the game from new instead of basically releasing half a game? Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

[guidofoc]

Now bear with me here, this is going to wind a few of you up.

I just added up the RRP of everything for this game on Steam, no offers, and it adds up to £85.

I am guessing most of you think that is good value, but I beg to differ.

It is only good value because a lot of you maybe compare it to other games or Iracing, but in general terms let's compare it to other games.

I am currently playing God of War, that has no DLC, and retail sets you back about 40 quid. Full game, no addons, Some games I imagine cost far more or are similar price wise.

Sim comparison F1 2020 say, all content 64 quid. Automobilista season pass is 80 quid. I cant work out DR 2.0 but I think if you bought everything from release full price it was over 100. The basics games gives you a few cars and tracks for 40 odd quid, now that is a total rip off if you ask me and its because the game was about a third of a game on release.

Why is it that sim racers are so easy to exploit? I know we are not alone here, most games do it now, but with Dirt Rally 2.0 really showed what exploiting a tiny population can rake in if you di it. Literally selling old content as new. You are so easy to manipulate, new physics, tyres, Oh yes we'll pay 40 quid for 8 tracks and about 10 cars! Bless.

Fair enough this game is new, it feels new, and the content is good and you can get it on sale as you can now for cheaper.

But the fact remains sim developers really do exploit sim gamers, and why? Because on the whole most of you are desperate or dumb enough to just forget what games ought to cost. And pay whatever they want you to pay. Just like SKY, Amazon, Disney, Netflix etc.

Now that's a harsh comment I know, but take a look here, if you always do it, guess what happens, that cost keeps on rising, more DLC keeps coming and they market it as unmissable and you MUST have it, but really is it such a good idea? Eventually a game with all content will be 200 quid plus and you are making companies vast profits who in the past would have to work harder for their money, you make it easier and easier for them to exploit you.

Kunos announced recently they had made 100 million recently, couldn't they just release a bit more with the game from new instead of basically releasing half a game? Wouldn't that be refreshing?

I have 305 hours in ACC. And I only play on weekends. Also, ACC is good, has been improved constantly during these years and people love it. I have no reason not to support the game and hope it develops further.

 

[Rob Every]

Lol, it really isn't, they released a perfectly good game years ago, this is still immensely popular and I doubt that made that much money in comparison!

I have no issue with the game, or the pricing, what I have issue with is how it is priced, there is a roadmap for profit now in EVERY damn game, and it is simply a way for developers to make more and more money out of gamers.

And the stupid thing is, you are so gullible you fall for it.

What would happen for instance if say books or albums suddenly got to the point where you paid a tenner for them online, but only got half the content. Do you not wonder why this has not been done? I wonder...

Go the the cinema, they tell you to leave halfway through the film and come back next week for the same price again.

This is what is happening in gaming, yet like lemmings you all fall over yourself to hand them money.

I agree the product is good, but you don't suddenly pay 35 grand for a 20 grand car do you, what's the matter with you lol!

I know it's the way you have been TOLD to play now, but you do have a choice and a voice, but sadly your choice is to pay, pay pay. Is it any wonder things are so crazy now.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Getting a creepy troll vibe off you now. I'm off...

 

[GeekyDeaks]

What would happen for instance if say books or albums suddenly got to the point where you paid a tenner for them online, but only got half the content. Do you not wonder why this has not been done? I wonder...

This already does happen in literature. Take Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones or Harry Potter... all are a huge story arc told over multiple books.

 

[guidofoc]

EDIT: i removed my post because we can debate forever about this stuff. I hope everything cost less one day and there is sim racing for all!

 

[Deleted member 379375]

If Kunos are making a decent profit on the back of producing a quality simulator , not game I.e real cars, tracks and data then good on them. With games you are free to code whatever you want however you want with no regard to accuracy . Sims take research, laser scanning, data from manufacturers etc and have an extremely discerning customer base. Just be happy they are successful and look forward to their next quality offering. I don't see the point of knocking success. People would soon whinge if companies like this went under.

 

[Slapped]

My money, my choice. I can pass if I find it too expensive, and honestly in comparison to flight sims where a single aircraft is €60 or more, most driving sims are an absolute bargain (iRacing excluded)

You also have to consider that driving sims are a niche, one that's becoming more popular admittedly, but are far from having the sales of AAA titles like God of War, meaning that the Devs/publishers of GoW are making way more money selling it for £40 than Kunos/505 games are for selling the complete ACC for £80.

In truth for all the enjoyment ACC has given me, and all for less than a hundred Euros all in, then I consider it an absolute bargain.

 

[Rob Every]

Again missing the point a bit.

That point is not the actual price, more the pricing structure and the way the game is released as a base game then with loads of DLC priced to achieve a higher profit.

Kunos are doing nothing new, I am just disappointed to see it in a game based around such a narrow form of racing.

 

[Serge.M]

Guy is clearly just trolling now, and in that sense sim racers are an easy target as here we are replying to this... haha

 

[Kenny Paton]

Guy is clearly just trolling now, and in that sense sim racers are an easy target as here we are replying to this... haha

Not at all, he started a thread to give a point of view, and I'm sure he won't be the only member on here with the same one.
I wish more members did that rather than posting off topic in other threads as it allows for a better discussion.

 

[Gevatter]

Not at all, he started a thread to give a point of view, and I'm sure he won't be the only member on here with the same one.

His point of view seems to boil down to "I don't like X, therefore noone should like X."

That point is not the actual price, more the pricing structure and the way the game is released as a base game then with loads of DLC priced to achieve a higher profit.

I see it more as a base game released at a certain point in time, with ongoing development that is financed by releasing additional content every few months that you can buy or skip and still reap the rewards of patches and hotfixes that improve your base game.

Depends on the perspective of course. If you buy in late, of course it going to be a comparatively large investment all at once, but if you go along with it, after the base game it basically 5-10 euros every few months.

 

[Serge.M]

Not at all, he started a thread to give a point of view, and I'm sure he won't be the only member on here with the same one.
I wish more members did that rather than posting off topic in other threads as it allows for a better discussion.

For his point of view to be valid he needs to be willing to accept other people’s point of views as valid also. I don’t see that happening here, in fact he is calling out people with a different point of view as gullible by claiming that they are “easy to exploit”

 

[Rob Every]

I do accept other peoples points of view, if I have not that was not my intention.

But the fact remains, if people continue to pay over the odds in money terms for games, the practice will only get worse.
And what then is the situation in 5 years when it's 150 quid, 200 for all content?

And forgive me but yes I do think a lot of gamers are gullible. it was not that long ago when games were released as they were and everything after was free, patches, etc, it is a fairly recent trend, as is paying to play consoles online, but if you do NOT do that now, you are perhaps in a 1% minority.

And whose decision was this to do these things? It was gamers, not companies, they just hung it out there, you all bit, swallowed the bait and they kept pushing, loot boxes etc and now look where you are.

Now it's your money, you can do what you want with it obviously, but maybe just now and then think about the precedent you are setting for gamers worldwide.

 

[Serge.M]

I do accept other peoples points of view, if I have not that was not my intention.

But the fact remains, if people continue to pay over the odds in money terms for games, the practice will only get worse.
And what then is the situation in 5 years when it's 150 quid, 200 for all content?

And forgive me but yes I do think a lot of gamers are gullible. it was not that long ago when games were released as they were and everything after was free, patches, etc, it is a fairly recent trend, as is paying to play consoles online, but if you do NOT do that now, you are perhaps in a 1% minority.

And whose decision was this to do these things? It was gamers, not companies, they just hung it out there, you all bit, swallowed the bait and they kept pushing, loot boxes etc and now look where you are.

Now it's your money, you can do what you want with it obviously, but maybe just now and then think about the precedent you are setting for gamers worldwide.

I very much don’t agree with loot boxes you buy in games, they do just add to profits but each to their own.

With sims though everything needs to be licensed, Audi releases a new car then the studio needs to negotiate and pay for a license to use it, adding a track means paying the track owner for the license to do so. Even adding a livery means paying a license to the owners of the livery. None of this could ever be added for free, in rare cases it is and that’s a bonus from the studio to its player base but there is a cost to them in labour and what can be very expensive licenses.
Creative games like God of War, Last of Us, etc don’t have to license anything

 

[GeekyDeaks]

And forgive me but yes I do think a lot of gamers are gullible

My problem with your argument is that you started it well enough discussing the questionable pricing models used in the industry, but then proceeded to attack the people buying it (lemmings, gullible etc.)

 

[GeekyDeaks]

And whose decision was this to do these things? It was gamers, not companies, they just hung it out there, you all bit, swallowed the bait and they kept pushing, loot boxes etc and now look where you are.

Loot boxes are a terrible thing, but to put the blame on the victims is unfair. There is a part of the industry that appears to know no shame when it comes to exploiting human weakness, hell they even make videos showing how they do it

For what it's worth, while the sim scene is expensive, they are at least up front about what you get, so people can have a chance of assessing the value it represents to them. Still bugs me when they know they can release it for 1/2 price a few weeks down the road, but then I'm happy to wait

 

[Deleted member 379375]

But the fact remains, if people continue to pay over the odds in money terms for games, the practice will only get worse.
And what then is the situation in 5 years when it's 150 quid, 200 for all content?

You may think people pay over the odds, that doesn't make it a fact. I suspect most people consider most sims to be a bargain.
There is a discussion here in RD which notes that when you look at what it costs to get a sim rig up and running , the cost of the sim itself, dlc or not, is minuscule. If you think people are gullible than that's fine you are entitled to think what you want just as people have a opinion of you based on your premise in this thread.

 

[Gevatter]

And what then is the situation in 5 years when it's 150 quid, 200 for all content?

There is a certain cut-off point where enough people are no longer able or willing to buy your product for the price you ask, and you will feel that in your revenue. That is especially true for luxury items.

Going by the constant complaining about rF2's DLC prices for example it seems like €5 for a single car is somewhat of an upper margin of the acceptable price range for most people.

 

[Majuh]

The replies in this thread are the very definition of "Stockholm syndrome".

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Going by the constant complaining about rF2's DLC prices for example it seems like €5 for a single car is somewhat of an upper margin of the acceptable price range for most people.

Yeah, that is my sentiment on that product too. I bought the base game on sale to mess around with, but I doubt I would play it enough to get my monies worth out of the additional DLC, so I have decided to pass.

This is really the point I was trying to make. There seems to be a conflation of price and value in this thread. One is objective, but the other is not.