AC Round 2 of 23 Formula Agile 2023 Thu, March 16th 2023

Twoddle · Mar 18, 2023

I ran a full downforce setup, lap time may have been a little slower but it make the car far easier to drive. there is no point in being fast if you are facing the wrong direction or in the wall.

If you like i can try and share my setup so you can see what i was working with? not sure if it will help you though.

It will be nice to have a decent base setup for everyone as this car is very tricky.

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

I agree, early days, but I am looking at this at the moment, there is a point where the trade-off gets to that point.
slower, more stable
a bit faster, less stable
I do not want to confuse things with another setup. perhaps when I am done, I will ask for your setup.
Yes, this is a very tricky car, I was hoping for an easy fix, not to be.

PS
it is the point between the faster and slower wing configuration that is the problem.
you do half a dozen laps and think that has fixed that, next lap the car is very slightly off line and around you go.

eN1xes · Mar 18, 2023

i used after round 1 for portimao server and jeddah Carsten setup is really good only thing i was missing some top speed on the straights

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

Ernie, Ernie, Ernie,

you complain about not getting the power down, about lethal snap oversteer when lifting and lighting up the rears in 4th gear.

And than you admit (offhandedly) that you drove with little wing because topspeed

Ernie,
Aero can save you, but you have to use it to capitalize from it

So young man,
go to your room, take your racesetup,
frontwing 12
rearwing 7

do ten laps at Jedda and see if it makes a difference.

(I hope it makes a difference for you, in fact I upped aero from the Nürburgring setup so I could attack the corners harder.
Topspeed only comes into play when you´re able to power out of the corner

And we both won´t beat a Fulvio, but the rest of the bunch is prone to killing themselfs
and/or others. So keeping it on the black stuff will net more points than being fast for one lap

)

MFG Carsten

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

gearwhine said:
I do not think anyone should feel responsible for the start problems at Jedda. It was just a bad combination of poor grip surface, a car who's tyres MUST warm up before pushing on and probably the most evil first corner we are going to get at any track. It was never going to be easy to get away unless maybe at the front of the grid.

I agree with you saying that this are very difficult conditions to start a race.

I absolutely disagree that nothing can be done to avoid this "T1 cluster**** (TM)"

How do think the F1 stewards would have judged the crashes and which penalties would have been issued?

I´m absolutely not calling for stewards and sentencing between us (yet)
but I call for better judgement and more consideration for your race partners.
After all we´re fighting not for championship points or millions in price money.

Maybe we could find a gentlemans agreement that no postion change should ocure before T2?

MFG Carsten

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

Carsten, I am at that setting, I am still spinning the wheels up everywhere around the track and I am not so far off the pace.
I did have a low wing, but that only slows my overall lap. even with a wing setting at where you say, I am still spinning the wheels up everywhere except the long straight.
The low wing did not help my many off's, there were a lot of other factors at play, and the low wing was just not helping, not causing.
It is basically spinning the wheels up at 120mph with a rear wing at 6, it even spins the rears up at 130mph.
I am sure that I am not going to solve this, but I am trying to get some stability in the car, yes increasing wing makes the car easier to drive, but a lot of wing is not a complete solution and probably never will be.

Maybe the low grip of Jeddah is causing it, but the car has not exactly been glued to other tracks elsewhere.
There are so many parameters to go through and the car is reasonably sensitive to all adjustments, I am hoping Rasmus will come up with something, this is not for the fast drivers here.
It is to make it better overall for us normal drivers, I know our fast lads handle it very well, but we don't all have that degree of fitness with our throttle control, I certainly do not.

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

Just checked, actually your fast laps were faster than mine by a noticeable margin

So coming in higher was just because of less ****upping

What are your diff settings?

Edith:

forget the question

I went to my room and checked my setup, but the diff settings are stock.
I rembered wrongly to have fiddled with them.

so I´ll take my leave now as I can´t be of help here

Twoddle · Mar 18, 2023

I just had a go with my setup but with zero downforce and i could use full throttle in the top of 2nd gear and up while straight and surprisingly controllable out of the corners.

you should share 1 of your low downforce test setups for us to try.

also do you have the track surface temp and grip set correctly?

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

I did try the diff settings, it just in the end aggravated the wheel spinning up, so instead of one wheel spinning it was two, so you disappeared twice as efficiently into the wall.

So I will almost certainly go for 20% wish I could go lower. I have increased coast, which does help with stability, at 40%, may go higher?

Post your setup Jason, I will give it a go.

Twoddle · Mar 18, 2023

this was my race setup I just took all the downforce of and fuel out for my test.

KFMaster · Mar 18, 2023

Kek700 said:
I am trying to get a setup that is quick and stable to share with everyone.
...
PS if no one is interested, just humour me.

I would love to see setups from others to learn, so please share!

Although I would not do anything with it now. As a newbie, I have made a goal for myself to not mess with setup until I am within 2 seconds of you guys' fastest time or able to drive 5 laps in row within 0.5 second and no longer have ideas how to go faster.

I followed Han's newbie guide and recorded the whole practice, quali, and race. Looking at how you guys drove was very illuminating. From those learnings, I was able to improved my lap time allot more than before. But I think I have picked all the low hanging fruit from just looking at everyone's racing lines. I now have clear idea what line I want to drive, but either going to fast and drift wide or going to slow and not loading up the car. It's to be a bit analytical. That leads me to two questions:

Are you all open to share your telemetry data? I think I can learn allot from that to achieve next level of learning.

And what is a good lap time analysis software? From a bit of research that I did, two packages looked promising: SRT and Z1 Analyzer. What are you all using and recommending?

TIA

Twoddle · Mar 18, 2023

IS markus able to set server 5 back up to make sure we are all testing in the same conditions the races are set in, try to remove some variables for us?

just in case I'm being an idiot.

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

I use MoTeC, most do here too, happy to share my telemetry with you.
You never know, one day you can share your telemetry with me.

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

I´m using Z1 Analizer, only plus is price.

For AC there are very little laps uploaded, you have to do your own track edges for almost every track we drive.
Only one I could download so far was Lagune Seca.
So there are no faster laps to compare yours to with the cars on the tracks we drive.

For me it helps to see my lines on the track and compare acceleration brake points and distances.

The build in analyzer is not helping because way to unspecific.

Will have a look at MOTEC now

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

I like MoTeC, it is free and very comprehensive, and can generate any track.
Down side, bleeding complex, but that can all be mitigated with a lot of support.
Unfortunately we are all isolated in our homes, so it makes it difficult.

Kek700 · Mar 18, 2023

Twoddle said:
IS markus able to set server 5 back up to make sure we are all testing in the same conditions the races are set in, try to remove some variables for us?

just in case I'm being an idiot.

Absolutely correct Jason, I do all my testing at 20deg C track temp 28deg C, mid day.
I either go faster online or slower.

KFMaster · Mar 18, 2023

Kek700 said:
I like MoTeC, it is free and very comprehensive, and can generate any track.
Down side, bleeding complex, but that can all be mitigated with a lot of support.
Unfortunately we are all isolated in our homes, so it makes it difficult.

stigs2cousin:

I´m using Z1 Analizer, only plus is price.

...

The build in analyzer is not helping because way to unspecific.

Will have a look at MOTEC now

Thanks Ernie, Carsten,

Sounds like MoTeC is the way to go.

Talking about bleeding complex, I went to download the app and was presented with a list of what looks like 50 different software! And an extensive list of documentation. Not sure where to even start. @Ernie, could you give a pointer which files I should download and which manual or guide to start with?

TIA!

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

First look at MOTEC not encouraging, a pro (N Naujocks) needed 10m to setup track map with brake and acceleration graph which works ootb in Z1.

Ernie, does MOTEC show an overlay of your line onto the track edges?

As a (very) minor talent I use this to find the best line for me.

stigs2cousin · Mar 18, 2023

Dai,

Z1 has a free version which you have to restart every 15min.

For Jedda at least you´d find prerecorded track edges and a mediocre lap to look at.