AC Round 2 of 23 Formula Agile 2023 Thu, March 16th 2023

[Boukâh]

PS.
I am at present with help from Rasmus trying to find a solution to this.
Watch this space.
It will involve a physical change to the setup or euthanasia for me.

Haha, but please stick to physical change to the setup Ernie. Let dr. Rasmus do his magic and you’ll fly like a youngster again!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Maybe the only set up requirement is a 30 year old and not a 76 year old.

Well. I don´t fit that requirement either, had my license test in the 80ties.

What help me (little) is that I´ve been playing around with this stuff irl for close to thirty years.
Still doesn´t make me a talent, but experience and practise helps.

As I´ve seen otherwise you have a pretty slick sim setup, does it by any chance contain tactile feedback?

That is what gave me another edge, feeling the wheels slip AND see the viewing angle change lets me ract a bit quicker. I don´t work with the FFB there, the other clues are quicker.


MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

PS.
I am at present with help from Rasmus trying to find a solution to this.
Watch this space.
It will involve a physical change to the setup or euthanasia for me.

I veto the second option in a clear and strongly worded refusal.
You won´t get away that easy

MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

And because I´m "in the mood" I checked some replays and I think I´ve identified the mechanism behind our "T1 cluster****s (TM)":

It can´t be a problem of situational awareness because a driver has to know/feel/hear/sense that he is a gaggle of 21 other drivers.

So how is it possible that we still try to drive our fastest line through T1 and rearend or sideswipe people who have been there from the beginning?

Is it really required to tell experienced simracers to watch out in T1, brake earlier than on a Quali lap and hold their line until crew Chief stops "singing out"? (or there´s no more red on HeliCorsa?)

As the old racers wisdom goes:

"you can´t win a race in T1, but you can **** it up for a whole lot of your former friends!!"

MFG Carsten

 

[Boukâh]

And because I´m "in the mood" I checked some replays and I think I´ve identified the mechanism behind our "T1 cluster****s (TM)":

It can´t be a problem of situational awareness because a driver has to know/feel/hear/sense that he is a gaggle of 21 other drivers.

So how is it possible that we still try to drive our fastest line through T1 and rearend or sideswipe people who have been there from the beginning?

Is it really required to tell experienced simracers to watch out in T1, brake earlier than on a Quali lap and hold their line until crew Chief stops "singing out"? (or there´s no more red on HeliCorsa?)

As the old racers wisdom goes:

"you can´t win a race in T1, but you can **** it up for a whole lot of your former frinds!!"

MFG Carsten

Well, since I was the one who caused the chain reaction of car racing hell in the first start, I can only say: you’re completely right on all points. I don’t have the replay of the first start, but from my perspective it felt like this:

“Hm, qualified 5th, that’s cool and… that sucks.” (I literally told that to my wife yesterday). Being still quite new to (sim)racing with real people, makes me quite nervous at race starts. Especially on tracks with quite impossible T1’s and especially when I’m somewhat up front. My digital sight is still quite limited on a 24” single screen, can’t see anything next to me visually, so I strongly focus and have to rely on all the tools you mentioned and which I have all in focus position on my screen and ears. And besides that, I tell myself: be cautious and sharp first corner, first lap and ahead.

And then: lights on countdown, heartbeat going up, aware of all cars and real people around me, trying to get a good reaction time at the start, with the least amount of spinning the tyres to keep control of the car leaving the line, shifting to third, full focus on car ahead, no sight of any braking point or whatsoever, only to find out two or three seconds later that the car ahead braked just a tad earlier and I rear ended someone, he spun, I spun, lots of drivers behind crashed, people freaking out on discord…

I can tell you, I felt quite stupid and ashamed, mad at myself for everything you mentioned in your post Carsten. All is running, me being as sharp as fck, so I thought. Still not sharp enough as it still became a horror start in T1.

The last start, I tried to be way more on the slow approach, braking way earlier, staying on my line, only to find out someone from behind found some space between me and the car on the inside, me turning in on raceline and got touched from the left, sliding off right. Next thing: 20-something cars stuck in T1. So, again lots if people on unwanted positions, and an hour ahead to set things straight.

I’ve been thinking about the starts yesterday and I can only conclude one thing for my first start: rookie error, not sharp enough while not being relaxed enough. Just a short sprint to the braking zone, too much to do and watch for and braking too late. In a tricky first corner with people who are seemingly better at this. Simple as that. Stupid as that. Learning the hard way. Again.

Just take my word that I felt like the stupid guy, fcking up again. This is stored in my system, making me even more cautious next time, hoping not to fck up races for others…

 

[eN1xes]

T1 openwheels its always a good combination :') .

 

[Kek700]

Making progress,

I am now comfortably in the 1-47's when I have some feedback from Rasmus I will post with more detail, still, some niggles to sort out.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I purposely spoke of it as " group effort" as I´ve been there, done that, got the T shirt

So, speaking to noone in particular ( don´t raise your hands please) that we must get better at this.

The conditions won´t get better than this, we know each other, hell, some of the guys even like each other and there´s no money and no chicks at stake, only internet points.

So it´s on us to reign it in again and clear up our mess.


MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

Making progress,

I am now comfortably in the 1-47's when I have some feedback from Rasmus I will post with more detail, still, some niggles to sort out.

View attachment 647915

Now you´re scaring me

 

[Boukâh]

I purposely spoke of it as " group effort" as I´ve been there, done that, got the T shirt

So, speaking to noone in particular ( don´t raise your hands please) that we must get better at this.

The conditions won´t get better than this, we know each other, hell, some of the guys even like each other and there´s no money and no chicks at stake, only internet points.

So it´s on us to reign it in again and clear up our mess.


MFG Carsten

I know, just wanted to show the perspective from the fck up side

 

[Kek700]

@Boukâh

I just focus on the car in front, never try an overtake, unless something really and rarely happens, keep about one cars length and just follow.
I know exactly what you mean about nerves, taken me ages to sit on the start line and not be affected by it all. The above now helps me to get it all in perspective.
Now that does not mean things are not going to go wrong, I ended up at the back in T1, but I knew none of it was my fault. Because I do not actually do any thing but carefully follow my fellow racer in front.
I understand the screen thing, but if you just follow the car in front you do not actually need to see anything else.

 

[Boukâh]

@Boukâh

I just focus on the car in front, never try an overtake, unless something really and rarely happens, keep about one cars length and just follow.
I know exactly what you mean about nerves, taken me ages to sit on the start line and not be affected by it all. The above now helps me to get it all in perspective.
Now that does not mean things are not going to go wrong, I ended up at the back in T1, but I knew none of it was my fault. Because I do not actually do any thing but carefully follow my fellow racer in front.
I understand the screen thing, but if you just follow the car in front you do not actually need to see anything else.

Thanks Ernie! Yeah, I tried something like that, but I think I hit the brakes too hard, loosing grip (no aero yet), locked the wheels and out of control. It’s what I recall from memory, no replay of that start unfortunately.

But I’ll keep your advice on the top of my mind for the next start. And I’ll go for lots of AI starts, although they get predictable. Guess I need you guys for target practicing

 

[KFMaster]

This is a very difficult car for most, Carsten and I were virtually in podiums position from a mid field start in a few laps, until the fast train caught up, says it all really.
Must have been a nightmare if it was your introduction to these forum races, it is rarely so chaotic.

I guess ignorance is blessing I had only driven a few cars, so this car feels pretty good. Especially once I get up to speed, I feel like I can do anything with the aero grip. It is a bit tricky at low speed though. In contrast, I tried the Merc GT3 -- even though powerful, it just feel ponder some, not too fun to drive. That was when I next spend most of my time in Miata MX5 on Laguna Seca. I also drove the Abarth 500 AC quit a bit on the Highland short circuit when I just got my PC setup before my steer wheel and peddles showed up. Everything happened slow enough that I could drive with keyboard

The pile up at the start was kinda exciting I see those in F1 races and now I am in one

Dai

 

[KFMaster]

These cars are also very sensitive on the tyres, much more than the Abarth/Mazda. You really have to manage the temperature during the race because the grip falls off quite fast.

It's a characteristic of this car which I like very much like because it resembles F1 cars a bit in that aspect.

You mean at the start, right Han? It seems to stay in good zone pretty well as long as one keeps going after up to temp from what I have noticed so far. During the race or even practice I couldn't spare much attention looking at the gauges, but from a few glances they seemed to have stayed green. I will try pay some attention to this going forward.

 

[KFMaster]

Most questions would be placed better in the text thread here at RaceDepartment as our life shedules differ slightly (as you are on the other side of the world, we all live on european time)

What I ment was that you could fix a date with someone on the thread to "meet" on the practice server and get everything to work with Discord and Co.

MFG Carsten

Thanks Carsten for the suggestion. Discord was my biggest problem now. I think I have figured out the pitstop problem from what you and Han said. Before next race I will ping here to arrange some help to test out Discord.

Dai

 

[gearwhine]

I do not think anyone should feel responsible for the start problems at Jedda. It was just a bad combination of poor grip surface, a car who's tyres MUST warm up before pushing on and probably the most evil first corner we are going to get at any track. It was never going to be easy to get away unless maybe at the front of the grid. Dani was understandably peed off due to the restart for the same reason me and a some others were in previous races with this car when we lose our setup. When the car was decided for the championship i was not sure it was the best choice but speaking for myself i find the car stable and predictable. All my mistakes are due to a heavy right foot and from the desire to match other drivers pace that from my experience usually are facing backwards after a few laps just like myself . Car is fine, it just demands a little more respect out of the faster turns i believe. Looking forward to the next race. I must disagree with the two race format though, instead of sixty mins of intense attension we will have twenty five mins of driving a short headless chicken kinda race with the obvious spinning out all over the place. Just my humble opinion'

Damn, that was the most serious i have been for a while, glad to get that out of my system

 

[Kek700]

I am trying to get a setup that is quick and stable to share with everyone.
The details will be up to the individual.
I have a very quick setup so far. ( relative, I know ) I just need to sort the power oversteer and a couple of other niggles. So everyone can hopefully have a fun race with this car.
I would be very tempted to. Introduce TC for the car, but I know that the purists would bitterly complain.
But it would, maybe, save Rasmus and I a lot of problems.

At present with the car reasonably straight and a 100 mph & 4th gear ( so plenty of DF compared with the cars weight ) it will instantly light up the rear wheels.
I thought I was in part throttle, seems my feet and brain are not in sync

PS if no one is interested, just humour me.

 

[Twoddle]

What rear wing setting are you using to have wheelspin in 4th gear while straight? or am i misunderstanding something?

 

[Boukâh]

I am trying to get a setup that is quick and stable to share with everyone.
The details will be up to the individual.
I have a very quick setup so far. ( relative, I know ) I just need to sort the power oversteer and a couple of other niggles. So everyone can hopefully have a fun race with this car.
I would be very tempted to. Introduce TC for the car, but I know that the purists would bitterly complain.
But it would, maybe, save Rasmus and I a lot of problems.

At present with the car reasonably straight and a 100 mph & 4th gear ( so plenty of DF compared with the cars weight ) it will instantly light up the rear wheels.
I thought I was in part throttle, seems my feet and brain are not in sync

PS if no one is interested, just humour me.

Yes, yes! Keep going, keep going!

 

[Kek700]

What rear wing setting are you using to have wheelspin in 4th gear while straight? or am i misunderstanding something?

Quite right Jason, I was running low wing. Mainly because of the straights at Jeddah.
So what you suggest is quite right, but, maybe, it would have helped for the incident I mentioned. I have a sneaking feeling it would not.
Test I have done still suggests power oversteer is a problem even with a lot of wing, even at high speeds.