AC Round 2 of 23 Formula Agile 2023 Thu, March 16th 2023

[abecede]

its amazing wish there was more hp on those cars to fully feel the flow of this track :'D

Note to self: Give Fulvio a massive restrictor plate next time ;-)

 

[stigs2cousin]

its amazing wish there was more hp on those cars to fully feel the flow of this track :'D

Well, maybe if we gift you an F1 2023 voucher you will stop harrassing (embarassing) us from the back??

Note to self: Give Fulvio a massive restrictor plate next time ;-)

No need, just have him tow a caravan

Han can hook you up.

( and if he still beats us I´ll just shut up and go into my room to cry )

But your right, in "real motorsports" someone had pulled strings/changed rules or
" made a Masi" a long time ago

 

[Boukâh]

Watched the replay from the last start (don't have the first, unfortunately), weird again. After screwing up the first start (sorry everyone) I took the slow approach from 5th, 1st corner, got hit from the left by late braking car, slid to the side, ending up in a car nightmare, again. Trying to get out on the left, Han was flying by and we danced in a circle. Waited for most to get past and moved on. Grumpy, but destined to get some good laps in, knowing most would crash at least once .

Could find some pace here and there, alternating good laps with fck-ups and some gravel. But in the last laps I finally got to a better understanding of me. this car, on this track. I like the track and the car. Slowly getting to know the Agile. Now slowly improving on myself and skills.

Had fun, but weird race...

Congrats to the podium and thanks Markus and Han!

 

[Twoddle]

Me and fast cars don't get along very well, My best lap was decent but my consistency is awful. this week i managed to set the car up in a way i really liked.

Found out while following Axel on lap 3 that you lose front aero following to closely and touched the ice gravel dropping me into 5th after that i think i just spent the race over driving the car. somehow came 2nd, it looks like other also had issues.

 

[Boukâh]

Me and fast cars don't get along very well, My best lap was decent but my consistency is awful. this week i managed to set the car up in a way i really liked.

Found out while following Axel on lap 3 that you lose front aero following to closely and touched the ice gravel dropping me into 5th after that i think i just spent the race over driving the car. somehow came 2nd, it looks like other also had issues.

I’ll give your setup a try next practice for next race, thanks again! I think you’re quick in all cars Jason .

 

[Twoddle]

I think i suffer the same problem most do with getting on throttle too early on corner exit. I'm slowly improving every week though.

 

[Twoddle]

I’ll give your setup a try next practice for next race

depending on the next track for the setup tyre pressures will need altering. feel free to ask me for my setup anytime and for any car we are in, I'm always happy to try and help.

 

[HF2000]

Next week on Wednesday:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/multiclass-abarth500-mazdamx5-fuji-wed-22nd-march-2023.256554/

 

[Kek700]

I did enjoy this race, sort of, had some great fights with all those who were on my bit of track, when I was on the track.
But I just cannot get to grips with the sudden over steer, and I do mean sudden, I find the group C Mercedes C9 much easier car to drive. Even the Mercedes has a small lag that you can live within , only when you do something silly you then get terminal oversteer, even then you know why.
Someone comes off in a bend, I just distracted momentarily, I suddenly get oversteer, no warning , just wham bam immediate oversteer.
Left alone, not to bad, as soon as I for a fraction of time I get caught up in variable traffic, off.
i just do not get this car, it seems to have an instant transition from grip to an instant lift of oversteer.
Any idea anyone. It has me beat.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Ernie,

part of the problem is setup a big part is "the traction circle" and a big torquy turbo engine.

Will post more to traction circle tomorrow, I'm on my Phone now.

 

[KFMaster]

For me a brand newbie, that was an exciting race (Thanks again to Han for helping me to get all set up for the race) -- I was close to some crashes, many I am sure were not cause by me but a couple I may have contributed. Although I tried to hold my line when people were behind me, my perspective may be different in the cockpit than from at 3rd perspective. I will have to look at the replay to see if I did anything stupid (the race happens at 12 noon in my time zone, so I had hopped right back to work before checking out the replays now). If I caused any of you grieve, please accept my apology, I really tried to not do that.

I had two big problems. One was that I didn't have the Discord setup correctly as I didn't heard a word during the race. Especially for the restarts, after getting past the first corner pile up, I was wondering why everyone was going slowly. Since I didn't see a red flag, I just kept going and figure it will take you guys a while to catch back up to me even if I am 5 seconds a lap slower Just then I got sent back to the start grid, twice!

Then I got disqualified right after the pit window closed for not pitting. But I did. After a while I realized I made a mistake. During the practice, when I came to the pit, nothing happens and I had to hit esc and do back to pit. I assumed I need to do the same during the race. But that probably rest my race and counted my pit stop as the start. Then I remembered what Han told me about pitting, which didn't include anything about me having to do ANYTHING. Next time I will know better.

Those first corner pile ups were pretty crazy. Does it always happen like that?

And I think both the car and the track were great. I had only tired a few cars in AC and spent most time in the Miata MX5. In the default setup, the F Agile actually feel easier to drive even though things happen much faster. The track has a nice flowy feel to it, if only I can get it right. And the way everything looks under the light is just really cool.

When is next race

 

[stigs2cousin]

Welcome Dai (which I hope is the right name to adress you?)

No, it's not always THAT crashy with us

I apollogize for punting you out in practice we had slightly different ideas of cornering speed.

About pitstops, you have to set them up beforehand ( best practice) or you can change settings while driving (bad idea)
The latter with the arrow Keys of your keyboard or the 7way switch/ D-Pad on your steering wheel.
It only works in race mode, so practice in an AI race

If you ask in the thread someone will help you set things up and check whether Discord is working. With that I've been struggeling myself lately.

And about Mazdas, we do a Multiclass every Wednesday with the Mixercup and some other "thing" some weirdos here seem to like

 

[KFMaster]

Hi Carsten,

Yes, Dai is my first name.

I apollogize for punting you out in practice we had slightly different ideas of cornering speed.

No worries, now I have confirmation I was indeed going too slow there

It only works in race mode, so practice in an AI race

I was doing exactly what I practiced in an AI race last night. And now it explains the peculiarity I observed during that practice pitstop: I had configured for 10L refueling but came out with 23L (the nominal start fuel level) I had too many things to get ready for so didn't investigate. Now it all makes sense.

If you ask in the thread someone will help you set things up and check whether Discord is working. With that I've been struggeling myself lately.

You mean in the Discord thread during the race, ah, practice portion of the race day, right?

Yeah, I know about the Multiclass races. But with the race happening in the meddle of my work day, it's a bit tough. I actually misread the timing for this class and thought it is in the evenings. Otherwise, I would not have done the race. But once I signed up, I didn't want to quite. Now that I have done one and seeing how much fun it is, I am going to keep going. I think I can swing it everyone other week or so for this series, but every week is going to be hard. And I really do enjoy driving the Formula Agile than the Miata MX5.

Dai

 

[Kek700]

This is a very difficult car for most, Carsten and I were virtually in podiums position from a mid field start in a few laps, until the fast train caught up, says it all really.
Must have been a nightmare if it was your introduction to these forum races, it is rarely so chaotic.

 

[HF2000]

it is rarely so chaotic.

These cars are also very sensitive on the tyres, much more than the Abarth/Mazda. You really have to manage the temperature during the race because the grip falls off quite fast.

It's a characteristic of this car which I like very much like because it resembles F1 cars a bit in that aspect.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Most questions would be placed better in the text thread here at RaceDepartment as our life shedules differ slightly (as you are on the other side of the world, we all live on european time)

What I ment was that you could fix a date with someone on the thread to "meet" on the practice server and get everything to work with Discord and Co.

MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

As promised yesternight (what was I thinking )
here a little background on vehicular dynamics:

Firstly brush up on your highschool physics with this short explanation off the traction circle by VRS:

https://virtualracingschool.com/academy/iracing-career-guide/second-season/the-traction-circle/

BUT:

this is only the beginning

they all neglect to tell you how the size of the traction circle (i.e. the "amount of grip") is defined.

Here "dynamic load transfer" and aero loads come into play.

Dynamic load transfer:

The size of the circle(amount of grip) depends on the load of the tyre, i.e. the force it is pressed into the tarmac with.
Normally this is the wheight of the car per wheel, except you start to move the vehicle.

When accelerating load moves to the rear tyres, so more grip in the rear, less grip in the front.
Try to steer (to much) and the unloaded fronts will slip (annoying understeer)
Too much gas to quickly you spin the rear tyres, deadly snap oversteer (PICNIC)
Downshift too early or too much rear brake bias, presto snap oversteer again.(PICNIC)

Lifting off or braking will load the front tyres, good for steering (until you steer to much/to quickly or with too much brake pressure and the car starts sliding again)

When cornering the load on the tyres is transfered in part to the outer tyres, that´s why trailbraking (too much or with the wrong brake bias) usually locks only one (the inner) wheel.

Driving tipps:

We need to determin how much/how fast our car transfers load, so we can judge how quickly/strongly to stomp on the pedals.

E.g. the Mixercup needs a squeezing brake administration as it transfers a lot of load over a long time ( comparatively soft suspension) ABS can make things easier but its better not to engage to often because of tyre wear (and brakes overheating, not modelled in AC)

Mixercup is low on power, but does power on oversteer if you mash the accelerator.
Squeeze on the gas!! allowing to load the rears first!!

It also needs slow and gentle steering inputs, allow for load transfer!

The formula Agile is a can be driven like that when "Aero kicked in, Yoh":

Exiting the first hairpin in Jedda in 3rd gear I thouroughly enjoyed the power oversteer when squeezing it out onto the "isn´t straight"

A little before that in "wiggly bits" ( I hate it that AC didn´t give the corner names here) I had to manage understeer by modulating the accelerator, lift to tug the front in, power on to slide lightly over all four wheels.
That´s where I love the car.

In the death trap chicane at pit exit powering out in 2nd gear there was no aero help whatsoever, so squeezing had to be reduced to carressing the gas until the car straightened up again and reaching 3rd gear WOT was possible again because of aero.
This was especially excruciating as this exit done well made up a huge chunk of laptime.

The torque graph of the FA shows why we have to feather the gas until "aero kicks in":

Without aero it can spin the wheels at pretty much the whole rev range

I personally have set my accelerator for high force (stiff spring) and the longest possible travel to help with modulation.
Some pedals allow for a curve to dampen throttle response at low RPM, but i can´t be bothered to change everything every time I change cars:

When braking for the second hairpin (T last) aero is in play again:

At 6th WOT you can stomp the brake pedal, with the aero load the friction circle is huge.
As speed decreases also aero loads decereases so we need to know when to gently release brake pressure to avoid lockup. This is not made easier by the slight curvature of the braking zone.
(Tielke again, I presume)

MFG Carsten

 

[Kek700]

Thank you Carsten, I lost this car on a number of occasions, once following you In fourth gear on 3/4 throttle slowly going to full, on that difficult large chicane exit with enough speed to assume a lot of down force.
Second one I lifted in a fast left hander in 5th gear, only partially, car gone in an instant.
I have no problems with 2nd and 3rd gear corner exits, I soon learnt to deal with that.
The rest, of which there were many, we're derivatives of the above, always situations that involved some sort of correction.
As I said I have no problem with the very difficult Mercedes C9 with no assists and 800+ hp. Because it tells me what is going on, if I wish for some reason to ignore the information, then I accept the consequence. I don't ask why.
This car I find very difficult, maybe a setup glitch that for some reason I have over looked,
The power curve, especially the torque curve, which I don't deny. but it drives as though there is no resolution in the curve, just a jump in torque that is not realistic.
This is not about theory, it is about a sudden transition that catches this old git out, perhaps I just do not have the youthful dexterity to deal with this car,
Maybe the only set up requirement is a 30 year old and not a 76 year old.

 

[Kek700]

PS.
I am at present with help from Rasmus trying to find a solution to this.
Watch this space.
It will involve a physical change to the setup or euthanasia for me.

 

[maxilogan]

I think i suffer the same problem most do with getting on throttle too early on corner exit. I'm slowly improving every week though.

Turn 2 and 13 were very hard in this regards