RD Le Mans Series Season 7 (rFactor 2)

[Stefan Kanitz]

For us, or rather the DX11 user, I see one problem coming up. It is almost impossible to drive behind an other car with the Enduracer mod. Frames get down to 30 FPS. On cloudy conditions thought. Nothing you can do, apart from clear sky conditions, or we can do, apart from going back to DX9. Are you in touch with the Modder for an update, at least I know they are planning to update it to DX11.

 

[Joseph Wright]

For us, or rather the DX11 user, I see one problem coming up. It is almost impossible to drive behind an other car with the Enduracer mod. Frames get down to 30 FPS. On cloudy conditions thought. Nothing you can do, apart from clear sky conditions, or we can do, apart from going back to DX9. Are you in touch with the Modder for an update, at least I know they are planning to update it to DX11.

A message from Enduracers on Facebook:

The team is aware of the situation. We are currently discussing the best way to go internally. We were not supposed to release any new builds soon, but we can not let you use the mod with graphic lacks without enjoying the benefits of the DX11 move. We will keep you informed when our decision is made.

This is whats been said Stefan. The only choice people have at the current stage is people going back to DX9. Its unfair for those running DX9 if we don't get weather purely because of a select few drivers. We need British weather! The only time I'm ever going to say that It most likely will be fixed for Round 3, but with Silverstone only 1 week away, we don't really have much other choice.

 

[Stefan Kanitz]

This is whats been said Stefan. The only choice people have at the current stage is people going back to DX9. Its unfair for those running DX9 if we don't get weather purely because of a select few drivers. We need British weather! The only time I'm ever going to say that It most likely will be fixed for Round 3, but with Silverstone only 1 week away, we don't really have much other choice.

Indeed. We are running out of time for that Come to Germany, it's like British weather current but a bit warmer than 9 degrees

 

[Daiman Patel]

Why are prototypes allowed to leave the pits at halfway point during the switch over period (32.5 minutes after session start)?
This way they would get basically 2.5 minutes extra to complete laps, since they could supposedly open a lap sooner than the GTs can, as we are only allowed to leave the pits when the session countdown starts.

Does a minute or two extra, to set a time in the qualifying session, really make that much of a difference in endurance racing, especially when you have already had 30 minutes to set a timed lap and determine your grid position?

Anyway, contrary to what you have said, the time that each class has to qualify should be roughly the same. The GT class may even have a little bit more time compared to the Prototype class because GT cars will have more time at the end of their 30 minute session to complete a flying lap (5 minutes) compared to the Prototype cars (2 minutes). As a GT driver, if you get the timing right then you'll be able to make use of the 5 minute switch-over period to complete a timed lap. To account for the fact that Prototype teams only have 2 minutes to complete flying laps at the end of the session, before it automatically progresses, drivers will be allowed to leave the pits at around the midway point through the switch-over period to begin their out-laps. Please note that the regulations state "approximately", and not "exactly"; the time at which the Prototype cars are released can change depending on the track length, so at Silverstone it will actually be a bit later while at Le Mans it will be sooner. This is to try and ensure that the two classes have an equal amount of time on track. However, assuming the Prototype drivers do begin their out-laps at the midway point during the switch-over period they will actually have a maximum of 34.5 minutes on the track, while a GT car could potentially be out on track for up to 35 minutes (certainly on a longer track such as Le Mans). We shall do our best to ensure that the qualifying session times for each class are even.

 

[Daiman Patel]

Another Enduracers screw up here. All other content works maxed out above 60 fps, while with Enduracers cars I never get anything above 20.

In spite of the fact that there are obvious problems with the Endurance Series mod, I don't think that it is fair to blame EnduRacers. I appreciate that they could have responded sooner - the same also applies to a number of other mod developers - but at least they had a plan (even though this has now changed, and we might see an update sooner than initially expected). Also this is not the only mod that is exhibiting problems, there are plenty of others that seem (or at least seemed, before the latest patch released) to be causing poor performance and have graphical issues as a result of the effects introduced by DX11. And finally how were EnduRacers to know that DX11 would cause these problems when their mod was being developed and released? If there is something that would have allowed them to determine this then I stand corrected, but maybe they believed it would be something that could be fixed at a later time.

Also, if the skins could be updated on all teams (including TDR ones here) to Albedo rules it would be great. As the car basically becomes a light source with over saturated colors. Not that it matters much now as Enduracers content is completely incompatible with DX11.

This is not something that we can do, as far as I am aware; EnduRacers shall have to apply the missing albedo maps themselves because I would not know where to start and also the MAS files are encrypted. If somebody could please correct me if I'm wrong that would be appreciated, but my understanding is that the albedo map applies to the underlying texture (i.e. the model / body), not the skin itself.

However, skins may also be a problem - if any of the RGB colour channels have a value greater than 210 then a bloom effect will be seen in DX11. Teams will be notified to amend their skins, to prevent the excessive bloom effect / diffuse reflectivity, if / when we decide to officially adopt and support DX11 later on in the season (this will not be an enforced requirement), though they are more than welcome to submit "corrected" skin files for Round 3. The correction is not something that I intend to do myself since I only have access to .dds files (I would require the original .psd files), and also given that processing all of the skin files would be a significant amount of work; updating all of the files for 40+ teams / cars would be an incredibly time consuming and arduous task. In case you have not seen it already, Studio 397 have produced some useful information and fairly simple instructions for updating skins to prevent the bloom effect from occurring - specifically look at the section about "How to quickly update car skins / color maps": https://www.studio-397.com/guidelines-for-artists/.

 

[Max Melamed]

EnduRacers Modding Team


Dear community,

We would like the confirm you that we will be releasing in the upcoming weeks a new build update of our MODs, Endurance Series rF2 and Flat6 Series rF2, linked to the release of the rFactor2 DX11 first build and the fact that our shaders are not working correctly on DX11. The new builds will include the following changes :

* Graphics : Updated bodywork shader.
* Graphics : Updated dashboard display devices shader.
* Physics : Correction of cars inertia values.

 

[Daiman Patel]

Are you planning to update the upcoming tracks to DX11 standards? I guess it is to much work for Gijs, if he would do it, but worth a question

Yes, The RDLMS Silverstone is Post FX ready.
DX11 standard means: Controle the Post Effect bloom with the albedo median. But this was also needed for DX9 to avoid "overexposure" (aka washout colors). Basically nothing changed.

As Gijs has said, the custom version of Silverstone for the RDLMS is already DX11-ready. However we do not intend to make any of the other tracks, to be used for this season of the RDLMS, compatible with DX11 ourselves. If a track has already been updated to DX11 by the original modder (or somebody who has been given permission) then we shall consider using it, provided it is also backwards compatible with DX9 for the time being as some participants may not want / be able to upgrade. If there is no DX11 update for a track then we will simply use the latest available version, and let the developer make updates in their own time. Though it may seem helpful, it would be unfair and maybe slightly insulting (not to mention that some modders / modding teams would almost certainly not be happy) if we were to begin making changes to their work. In addition it may take a while to do the work; given the tight deadlines for getting work done and tracks released it might not be possible to make updates (and more importantly optimisations) in the time that we have available. And finally, we may not know what exactly needs to be updated and / or fixed to make a track compatible with DX11 (as well as DX9).

Having said all of this, Gijs might actually think that it is possible, in which case we shall discuss the matter and assess the feasibility of doing this for each track. If a track developer confirms that they are working on a DX11 update in the meantime then we shall definitely not make any changes of our own, but if there are no plans to bring a certain track up to the latest standards then we may consider doing ourselves. However it is currently too early to commit to this.

 

[Matheus Machado]

Does a minute or two extra, to set a time in the qualifying session, really make that much of a difference in endurance racing, especially when you have already had 30 minutes to set a timed lap and determine your grid position?

Anyway, contrary to what you have said, the time that each class has to qualify should be roughly the same. The GT class may even have a little bit more time compared to the Prototype class because GT cars will have more time at the end of their 30 minute session to complete a flying lap (5 minutes) compared to the Prototype cars (2 minutes). As a GT driver, if you get the timing right then you'll be able to make use of the 5 minute switch-over period to complete a timed lap. To account for the fact that Prototype teams only have 2 minutes to complete flying laps at the end of the session, before it automatically progresses, drivers will be allowed to leave the pits at around the midway point through the switch-over period to begin their out-laps. Please note that the regulations state "approximately", and not "exactly"; the time at which the Prototype cars are released can change depending on the track length, so at Silverstone it will actually be a bit later while at Le Mans it will be sooner. This is to try and ensure that the two classes have an equal amount of time on track. However, assuming the Prototype drivers do begin their out-laps at the midway point during the switch-over period they will actually have a maximum of 34.5 minutes on the track, while a GT car could potentially be out on track for up to 35 minutes (certainly on a longer track such as Le Mans). We shall do our best to ensure that the qualifying session times for each class are even.

Initially reading the text I assumed I was only able to open a lap before the timer hit 35 minutes left. As it is otherwise, I agree both classes have the same amount of time. Although the way it is probably there will be prototypes and GTs on the track at the same time.

 

[Daiman Patel]

@Matheus Machado Guess every team itself have to update their skins. Not much what Daiman or staff can do about it. Decrease Post Effects to medium or lower. Marcel said Post Effects above medium are only necessary for broadcasts or Screenshots.

The EnduroRacers mods makes use of a few custom shaders which they need to update.
At the moment the car body will only show the T1 diffuse stage in DX11. No Sun Reflections/specular and no environment reflection to tame the diffuse reflectance.
Technical ==> This creates a high diffuse reflectance which result in the "glow" effect you see.

I recommend to stay and create your skins with the normal DX9 build for "official" events, until DX11 and EnduRacers is ready.

You can always opt in "DX11-open-beta" and check it out. To revert back: select: "None - opt out of all betas"

I'm just asking that some kind of control is set up for glow skins. Just to not blindfold other cars by using 255 colors.

Aren't the overglow means it isn't DX11 ready? The higher I set the Post Effects the more glow the white parts in sunshine. If I set it to medium it is not that overglowing. I will stay at the DX11 build. The more informations we get the better it is for the development

@Stefan Kanitz that is correct, each team may have to update their skins in order to prevent the bloom effect from occurring due to a colour channel value being over 210. There is unfortunately nothing that we can really do about it right now, before Round 2. And, as I have said to Matheus, I shall not be applying the "fix" and updating the skin files myself as I only have access to .dds files, not to mention that it would be a significant amount of work that would take a fairly considerable amount of time. Reducing the level of the post effects definitely sounds like a sensible idea in an attempt to reduce not only the bloom effect but also a number of other (side-)effects caused by incompatibilities between the mod and DX11.

As @Gijs van Elderen has kindly explained (and @Stefan Kanitz has corroborated), the current version of the Endurance Series mod is simply not (fully) compatible with DX11 - it is not ready to be used with the upgraded version of rFactor 2. For example, the current shaders being used by the mod will not work with DX11, and will be partly at fault for some of poor effects and graphical issues that have been reported. In addition, missing albedo layers from texture maps such as the custom skins result in the bright glow / sun-like light that emanates from the cars.

Thankfully, as @Max Melamed has informed us, following a post on Facebook from the EnduRacers team in the past couple of hours, there shall be an update to correct a number of (not only graphical, but also physical) issues in the next few weeks. Hopefully this will be available in time for Round 3, so that we can begin to consider also supporting DX11.

@Matheus Machado what control would you like us to set up exactly? The bloom effect is a result of colour channel values being too high by teams when they design and create their skins. The base templates can be updated for new skins being created from afresh, either by new or existing teams. However there is nothing that we, the RDLMS staff, can do so soon before Round 2 to restrict the colour values to a maximum value of 210 for submitted skins. The only practical solution would be for teams to submit updated, corrected skins, but 1 week is not sufficient time for to resolve the matter before the next race. As has been suggested, try selecting a lower post effects level (maybe even set it to "None") in an attempt to reduce the diffuse reflection from the cars.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

@Matheus Machado:

Try:
In the configDX11.ini:
EPostProcessingSettings=0 ==> post fx OFF
EPostProcessingSettings=1 ==> post fx NONE

The OFF option isn't avaible in the setup.
But it turns any post fx off, just like it is in DX9.
Cars, tracks: not optimised for DX11 will be the same as in DX9.

This might be a workaround for tracks not optimised for Post FX (and HDR).

Cars and tracks might need some adjustments for Post FX, Not for DX11.

However custom shader won't work in DX11.

 

[Matheus Machado]

what control would you like us to set up exactly? The

I agree completely one week is not sufficient for all teams and organization to adapt.
For round 3 I would propose that all teams have to supply (if they haven't met the requirements already) skins that doesn't glow when put in game. If it glows the skin can be simply rejected and to race the team must provide something respecting albedo rules.

 

[Matheus Machado]

@Matheus Machado:

Try:
In the configDX11.ini:
EPostProcessingSettings=0 ==> post fx OFF
EPostProcessingSettings=1 ==> post fx NONE

The OFF option isn't avaible in the setup.
But it turns any post fx off, just like it is in DX9.
Cars, tracks: not optimised for DX11 will be the same as in DX9.

This might be a workaround for tracks not optimised for Post FX (and HDR).

Cars and tracks might need some adjustments for Post FX, Not for DX11.

However custom shader won't work in DX11.

Just tried this setting and as with other PP settings it didn't change performance at all. Only ultra gives a really small hit here.

 

[Max Melamed]

Just some info. With the latest hotfixes for rF2 DX11 the performance of the Endumod went from 8 FPS to 40+ for me and I am using way higher settings atm. Basically everything maxed out, PP on low and shadows on low and shadow smooting off. It is coming along

 

[Stefan Kanitz]

Sure Max but definitely not usable for this round. Even after the last changes racing in a pack with this mod doesn't work. For me at the start 14 fps in a 42 AI Field. I will use DX9 for the race, everything else is to dangerous with this amount of Frames.

 

[Daryl Russell]

dx9 still looks just as good for now. I did some laps on the server last night and I swear I saw some effects like in dx11. Heat haze for one I noticed which looked good. Never paid attention to it before.

 

[Daiman Patel]

Initially reading the text I assumed I was only able to open a lap before the timer hit 35 minutes left. As it is otherwise, I agree both classes have the same amount of time. Although the way it is probably there will be prototypes and GTs on the track at the same time.

I appear to have created further confusion... please let me clarify. GT cars can only open a lap before the end of their 30 minute qualifying window, and laps can be completed during the switch-over period which lasts for a total of 5 minutes. If a GT car commences a flying lap just before the start of the switch-over period then it will have up to 5 minutes to complete the lap. To account for the fact that Prototype cars only have 2 minutes at the end of their session to complete laps (before the in-game session automatically progresses) they will be allowed to leave the pits at a specified time (announced by Race Control) during the switch-over period to commence their out-laps; GT cars may still be completing timed laps, but there should be a sufficient gap between the classes. (Note that once the end of the session has been reached Prototype cars will not be able to start another timed lap either, so this is no different to the end of the session that shall be enforced by Race Control for the GT class.)

I shall present you with two examples to help explain what I mean:

1. At Silverstone, we would expect all GT cars to have completed timed laps by the end of the 3rd minute in the switch-over period (33 minutes into the session). Prototype cars will be given the same amount of time, and shall therefore be allowed to leave the pits approximately 1 minute before the end of the switch-over period (34 minutes into the session). Therefore there will be a >1 minute gap between the two classes as GT drivers return to the pits (assuming they have not pressed ESC) and Prototype drivers begin their out-lap, so theoretically they should not get in the way of one another (at least not on a timed lap).
2. At Le Mans, as the track is longer, GT cars might take until the end of the 4th (and might even go into the 5th) minute to complete their timed laps. And once again, to give Prototype cars an equal amount of time they will be allowed to leave the pits approximately 2 - 2.5 minutes (depending on lap times) before the end of the switch-over period. In this case there will be a 2.5 - 3 minute gap between the last GT car on a timed lap and the Prototype cars on their out-lap, which should be more than enough to prevent the cars from each class getting in the way of one another (at least on a timed lap).

I hope this makes sense. Apologies for any uncertainty that I may have caused.

 

[Daiman Patel]

I would like to begin with an apology for the mistake that I made on Friday - "albedo map applies to the underlying texture (i.e. the model / body), not the skin itself" - due to my lack of understanding. I initially presumed the albedo map was something that only EnduRacers could (and would need to) apply to their textures. I completely failed to connect the two and realise that, since the custom skins are also texture maps, the albedo median must be used to reduce the diffuse reflectivity of these textures on the cars. Therefore an albedo map will actually need to be applied to the custom skins by each of the teams in order to prevent the excessive bloom effect. I am sorry for my ill-informed responses the other day @Matheus Machado; I have now updated and corrected the posts.

Has anyone been able to get Enduracers to work with DX11?
On lowest settings, frames drop outrageously when other cars are being rendered. Other content and mods have been working slightly worse or even better than on DX9.

Feedbacks from any sort of system specs are welcome, specially ones equipped with GTX 970s or similar.

Yeah my frames drop to between 26 and 30 with multi class enduracers on silverstone. With the updated usf2000 I get around 80 with the same settings.

My specs are I7 2600k, gtx 970, 16gb ram and I use triples. This is with post effects on low and level 1 aliasing with mostly medium to low graphical settings. I haven't tried with the effects off yet.

A message from Enduracers on Facebook:

The team is aware of the situation. We are currently discussing the best way to go internally. We were not supposed to release any new builds soon, but we can not let you use the mod with graphic lacks without enjoying the benefits of the DX11 move. We will keep you informed when our decision is made.

There are known issues with the Endurance Series mod when running the game using DX11, and EnduRacers have not shied away from this fact; they have even responded to the situation by announcing that updates shall be released soon (hopefully before the next round) which is incredibly promising. However, I am not sure if both the graphical and performance issues necessarily have the same cause; the underlying meshes that form the car could (also) possibly be at fault for the low frame-rates, due to a potential difference in the rendering mechanism between DX9 and DX11. I am merely speculating though - I might be completely wrong, and maybe the models have nothing to do with any of the performance problems, which would explain why these are not being looked at to the best of my knowledge. EnduRacers obviously know more than me, so the poor performance and graphical issues are probably related to some degree. The problem could be due to the shaders currently used by the mod, and / or the incredibly bright reflections from cars without an albedo map (to produce the effect, though it may be unintentional and unwanted, might be a lot of work for the graphics engine).

So given the current overall state of affairs, I believe DX9 shall be the best option at least for Round 2 of the championship. This may change for future races, as Studio 397 continue to work on and release hot-fixes and updates for the DX11 upgrade, and also as mod developers update their content for compatibility; more information will be provided closer to the time based on the situation with the required resources for future rounds, as well as the performance and stability of the game.

I've seen that message, but I want to find out if someone was able to sort it out.

Given that EnduRacers themselves have said there are problems with the mod, not to mention the fact that we know skin files now need to include an albedo map, how exactly do you expect someone else to be able to "sort it out" without any updates? Maybe the effect of the problem can be reduced, by changing settings or by means of a workaround, but it certainly cannot be fully rectified before custom skin files have been amended and an updated version of the component has been released. There is not going to be a magic solution that is suddenly going to make it work as expected, because the cars are ultimately broken in DX11 - they are not fully compatible with the upgraded game while both remain in their current state. Apologies if that sounds harsh but it is the stark reality of the situation. I appreciate that it is unfortunate but so was the timing of the DX11 upgrade (for us anyway), and there is ultimately nothing that we can do about it right now. We shall do our best to rectify as many issues (of the ones within our control) as possible before Round 3.

 

[Dan Long]

DX9 is still utterly excellent in rF2, I see no issues with continuing to run it until the DX11 build is completely solid and the Enduracers mod is up to scratch with DX11

 

[Daiman Patel]

For us, or rather the DX11 user, I see one problem coming up. It is almost impossible to drive behind an other car with the Enduracer mod. Frames get down to 30 FPS. On cloudy conditions thought. Nothing you can do, apart from clear sky conditions, or we can do, apart from going back to DX9. Are you in touch with the Modder for an update, at least I know they are planning to update it to DX11.

This is whats been said Stefan. The only choice people have at the current stage is people going back to DX9. Its unfair for those running DX9 if we don't get weather purely because of a select few drivers. We need British weather! The only time I'm ever going to say that It most likely will be fixed for Round 3, but with Silverstone only 1 week away, we don't really have much other choice.

I appreciate that what you have raised is indeed a problem, however it shall be of your own making if you choose to run the game using DX11 as this is very much at the early stages of adoption, and still a public beta test with ongoing updates to rectify and refine issues as they are identified. DX11, in its current state, is still effectively an experiment and a moving target - there may be significant, potentially detrimental changes from one update to the next - hence its use for the RDLMS is not recommended for the time being. DX9 is still perfectly stable, and does not exhibit the issues that have been seen with the Endurance Series mod running under DX11. I understand that many people are excited about using the latest upgrade, but a league race is not the best time to use what is effectively bleeding-edge technology for rFactor 2 (even if you are on the "stable" branch), because there are still problems with the resources being used, and there has not been sufficient testing to determine how the game will behave during and after a prolonged session.

We are not in direct contact with EnduRacers (or any other modders) since they have already acknowledged and responded to the fact that there are issues with the Endurance Series mod. Therefore there is nothing to gain from pestering them even more regarding issues about which they are already aware, and for which they shall be releasing and update in the coming weeks. If they had not reacted then we probably would have been in touch, but it's clear that they are looking into rectifying the problem as soon as possible.

In addition, the RDLMS shall continue to utilise the live weather plugin for Round 2 - it shall not be disabled simply for the benefit of those select few participants who have decided that they now want to / must use DX11 in spite of our recommendations. As @Joseph Wright has rightly said, turning off the plugin would not be fair for those who have chosen to continue running the game using DX9 because of its known stability and reliability. At least we are aware of the issues with and limitations of rFactor 2 when it is run using DX9, and we can also potentially find (temporary) workarounds for these problems. However, the DX11 version of rFactor 2 is very much an unknown at the moment. Going back to the point about live weather, the forecast for next week is looking rather mixed and this will make the race very interesting indeed; in fact, live weather is one of a number of aspects that makes endurance racing in rFactor 2 fascinating and unique, and it would be a shame to disable it. Thus it appears as though the option will be to continue / revert to using DX9.

Also, as Joseph and I have both said, we shall do the best we can to rectify as many issues (of the ones within our control) as possible before Round 3.

 

[Daiman Patel]

@Matheus Machado:

Try:
In the configDX11.ini:
EPostProcessingSettings=0 ==> post fx OFF
EPostProcessingSettings=1 ==> post fx NONE

The OFF option isn't avaible in the setup.
But it turns any post fx off, just like it is in DX9.
Cars, tracks: not optimised for DX11 will be the same as in DX9.

This might be a workaround for tracks not optimised for Post FX (and HDR).

Cars and tracks might need some adjustments for Post FX, Not for DX11.

However custom shader won't work in DX11.

I shall have to give those settings a go, but not before Round 2. Even though I intend to keep a backup of my original install (just in case it all goes horribly wrong - you can never be too careful, and my luck is not great), I don't want to accidentally screw anything up only a week before the next race... that would be a disaster! Thanks for the information Gijs!

However, one thing has slightly confused me - would you mind clarifying what you mean by the following:

Cars and tracks might need some adjustments for Post FX, Not for DX11.

Excluding the incompatible custom shaders, are you saying that cars and tracks actually need to be updated primarily for the post effects, and not because of the switch to DX11?

PP effects didn't change a single frame. Setting everything to low doubled the frames from 17 to 34. Also max frames reached 90 when alone in the track.

Just tried this setting and as with other PP settings it didn't change performance at all. Only ultra gives a really small hit here.

You keep mentioning that your performance does not improve when you change the post effects level, however the suggestions that have been made are to help you reduce the effect of graphical problems (primarily the diffuse reflectivity of the Endurance Series cars) and not necessarily to rectify your performance issues (though this may also be improved as a result or side-effect). Do you see any change in the size or intensity of the bloom effect if you adjust the post effects level, or do the cars still appear excessively / unnaturally bright? Could you maybe provide some screen shots to show how a car appears when you are using different post effect levels?