Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[Wmacky]

Never mind

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Simagic M10 GT4 Kit Caution: The Alpha is a stronger motor but has no GT4 wheel kit, it's a stepper motor and Simagic might release a servo motor version soon. It's only 10 Nm and most people say 15-20 is the sweet spot.

Alpha is servo, 15nm. I saw some videos of it in use already, perhaps beta testers.

And overall view of the new model with GT wheel.

 

[Moonmachine]

I am a bit new to the party regarding this change. Am I right in thinking that there will be an online subscription introduced for true drive?
Personally having invested quite heavily in to Simucube this will come as quite a shock.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If anyone missed fresh SRG review of SIMAGIC as it's burried in another thread.
Quite impressive value for the money, great wheel with wheel plate like this alone is probably $500+ easily.

 

[Rolfi]

You guys will have to understand that @Andrew_WOT has been a pretty vocal advocate for Granite and the Simucube platform. His comments are the reason I bought my SC2 Pro (As much as me and him "disagreed" on things). The way GD's developers treated him on their community page, shut down the poll and censored the "grumpy old men", and started leaking out the future of True Drive being "online" with social media integration, it's understandable he might be feeling a bit betrayed and will recommend people go another direction. I personally am not a big fan of Andrew and I honestly felt really bad for him the way they responded to his comments on GD community page...

The ball is in GD's court on how they'll handle this... Although if as they say, their "old grumpy men forum members" are really a minority, it's possible they won't care in the slightest how we feel, and maybe I'll also have to sell my SC2 Pro on FB marketplace. lol. That would suck considering I promised my wife I wouldn't change my wheel base for "years" after how many I went through this year before buying the SC2.



Which wheel base should I buy?
IMO, SC2 Pro is still "the best", but SC2 owners are nervous about the future and what it holds. Apparently GD developers have nerfed the maximum power draw of the SC2 Pro because the single PSU SC2 Pro (R2) they just released can draw less sustained power than the R1 2x Meanwell PSU version. They won't specifically state how much power has been reduced and keep telling us "you won't notice the difference". Combined with their all online platform, I would say wait on an SC2 until they release the new software and us "grumpy old men" will tell you what we think. I'm personally a 37 year old "grumpy old man" who's also a software engineer, with 300+ subscribers on my YT channel and I will be reviewing the new software when it drops, but I'm sure other more detailed/knowledgeable YT'ers will also review the new software.

My recommendation WRT Simucube 2 is "still good, but proceed with caution". In other words, it's good now, but if you buy it and something happens you don't like in the next few months, consider that I did warn you that it could get weird, software wise.
My rankings:

1. Simucube Caution: Might have controversy around the software in the coming months, can be quite expensive to get started. Wireless solution is limited to 28 inputs and no analog axis (for now).
2. VRS DirectForce Pro Caution: They are still on a queue based system, whether you can buy or not will depend on where you live
3. Accuforce V2 Complete Caution: If you live in Europe, the customs/shipping might make this horribly expensive, also it's quite a few years old and it's possible SimExperience might update the hardware
4. Simagic M10 GT4 Kit Caution: The Alpha is a stronger motor but has no GT4 wheel kit, it's a stepper motor and Simagic might release a servo motor version soon. It's only 10 Nm and most people say 15-20 is the sweet spot.
5. Simplicity SW20 V3 Caution: This is a one man operation and he used to sell Simucube kits. People have no idea how long he can support the business, if he's profitable, whether his software is just a reproduction of SC/MMOS.
6. Leo Bodnar SimSteering 2 Caution: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
7. Fanatec Podium PS4 Caution: Fanatec...

If you want to spend €2500, I recommend an aluminum profile cockpit €400, an SC2 Sport €1000, the BB Ultra wheel from Tomo at SRB €360, a cheap D shaped wheel €60, some Recaro clone seat €100, Sprint Pedals €580. But given all the controversy right now, it might be good for you to hold off on buying any DD wheel and wait to see how things turn out over the next month or so...

Since you said you want to upgrade pedals too, and we're in a weird place regarding SC2's software, I would recommend just buying the Sprint Pedals and a Sim-Lab cockpit first. Those are two huge upgrades and nothing in the next month or two will change our recommendation of those.

If you really want a wheel base right now, my best recommendation that has the least amount of controversy around it is VRS DirectForce Pro. Even Barry from SRG said he wouldn't mind using it as his main wheel if he didn't have a Leo Bodnar SS2. That's a compliment he didn't use for any other DD wheel he reviewed.

Ok also thank you for going into this detail with the actual wheel bases.

I ordered the cockpit and I can drive it with my logitech setup. I also waiting for the "black friday" from fanatec and see what new products they have in store.

Whould love to have some wheels like the Cubecontrols Formula Pro or the CSX2 when it should be SC. Do you have any recomodations for other wheels in this price range?

If Fanatec comes out with some new Pedals and a new Formula Wheel with a GT3 Style - then, ufff this whould be so nice.

I whould at least have everything for the christmas holidays - thats the time where I have the most freetime. Hope you get the infos about the software till then.

 

[Squared Circle]

Sorry guys, I need to come back to the SC2 forced-online-profiles-topic as I might still struggle understanding it. As far as I understand, the facts are (please correct where I am wrong):
- A profile is a set of parameters governing how the wheelbase's built-in software (=firmware) is doing things
- The profiles are now stored in flash memory inside the wheelbase, a backup is stored on my local drive
- The current firmware is considered legacy code and needs a complete rewrite
- In the course of the rewrite the development goal is to not store the profiles inside the wheelbase anymore
- The goal is to store it "somewhere on the internet"
- If I want to load a profile then, it "passes through" my PC on the way from this place on the internet to the wheelbase
- It will be possible to create/edit profiles locally without internet connection. This is "fallback mode". It will not be possible to sync the profiles (or the changes done "locally" to them) back to "the internet".

If that everything would be true, the solution for those of us who consider storing driver parameters in the cloud as being a little bit overkill would be: Create a dummy-account, cut the connection to it permanently (e.g. firewall etc.) and live life in "fallback mode" for the centuries to come.

 

[DirkW]

If I read Mika's post I understand it like this:

The new profile manager / driver software is programmed as an app that works within a web-browser, be it offline or online. It can download different profiles from a server and store them on your PC for you to use and edit them if you like.

And apparently, they also think about ways how users could upload their own profiles for others to use.

Why would any of that be a problem? I like the idea, to me it also appears being a good modern way, using a web-browser based app with options to download and/or share profiles.

 

[TedBrosby-]

If anyone missed fresh SRG review of SIMAGIC as it's burried in another thread.
Quite impressive value for the money, great wheel with wheel plate like this alone is probably $500+ easily.

Not even probably, it’s just $500+ factually. Lol

Sim-Motion - the new way of motion - Simracing Hardware

Sim-Motion simracing hardware and motion solutions for everyone. actuators and platforms. Simagic PT-Actuator MOZA Racing Asetek VNM Actoracer

www.sim-motion.com

I think the GT4 bundle is better personally but I think the Alpha will be better if they bundle it with wheels.

 

[Squared Circle]

If I read Mika's post I understand it like this:

The new profile manager / driver software is programmed as an app that works within a web-browser, be it offline or online. It can download different profiles from a server and store them on your PC for you to use and edit them if you like.

And apparently, they also think about ways how users could upload their own profiles for others to use.

Why would any of that be a problem? I like the idea, to me it also appears being a good modern way, using a web-browser based app with options to download and/or share profiles.

Thanks - yes, I read this similarily so there should be some way or another to be able to use the device in a normal way.
BTW: Of course making things unnecessarily complicated is a problem. The more complex a system is, the more bugs it will have.
Would it really be a "good modern way" to be forced to start a webbrowser in order to be able to load a GPU profile or the settings of your printer? Both could be interesting for different users as well but still nobody has had the idea to try to force people to store those settings somewhere else. We are still only talking about parameters of a device driver here...
It's still not clear to me how a "fallback" will work in case there is no online connection. I guess I don't have to install a local webserver and a full-blown database system in order to send parameters to a wheelbase
Anyway, I guess we'll really have to wait and see where all this leads and at least I will have to see a very good practical benefit before I'll migrate from a simply working solution to a complex system.

 

[Rolfi]

Just to be clear - which FFB is actual the best for AC and ACC when comparing Simucube, Fanatec, Simagic?

Simagic are already here in stock in Germany. Does anyone have some real experience with it here against SC and Fanatec?

 

[DirkW]

Thanks - yes, I read this similarily so there should be some way or another to be able to use the device in a normal way.
BTW: Of course making things unnecessarily complicated is a problem. The more complex a system is, the more bugs it will have.
Would it really be a "good modern way" to be forced to start a webbrowser in order to be able to load a GPU profile or the settings of your printer? Both could be interesting for different users as well but still nobody has had the idea to try to force people to store those settings somewhere else. We are still only talking about parameters of a device driver here...
It's still not clear to me how a "fallback" will work in case there is no online connection. I guess I don't have to install a local webserver and a full-blown database system in order to send parameters to a wheelbase
Anyway, I guess we'll really have to wait and see where all this leads and at least I will have to see a very good practical benefit before I'll migrate from a simply working solution to a complex system.

I don't know about the practical benefit either. But I have owned my SC only 2 months and don't of course see the whole picture, I guess GD have checked that there is sufficient demand to offer the option for online profile exchange.

 

[PJ03029174]

Unfortunately I think they’re looking for additional revenue streams hence forcing this update. The good news is the hardware looks solid for years to go. Like others have said, it will be great have the functionality but in no way should it reduce the offline functionality. Hopefully thanks to Andrew and a few other members they might look at improving the offline profile and they rethink any updates to functionality (filters etc) being available to online profile only

 

[DirkW]

Unfortunately I think they’re looking for additional revenue streams hence forcing this update.

Haven't understood it that way in any of Mika's posts.

 

[AccAkut]

Unfortunately I think they’re looking for additional revenue streams hence forcing this update. The good news is the hardware looks solid for years to go. Like others have said, it will be great have the functionality but in no way should it reduce the offline functionality. Hopefully thanks to Andrew and a few other members they might look at improving the offline profile and they rethink any updates to functionality (filters etc) being available to online profile only

... how's a cloud system that requires additional overhead and fees additional revenue?

Regarding industrial background, it's rather common today for suppliers to be able to log into your machine remotely, maybe something like that is in discussion, a system that allows them (or other third parties) to do real time analysis remotely.

 

[TedBrosby-]

... how's a cloud system that requires additional overhead and fees additional revenue?

Regarding industrial background, it's rather common today for suppliers to be able to log into your machine remotely, maybe something like that is in discussion, a system that allows them (or other third parties) to do real time analysis remotely.

There was a comment from Tommi (GD engineer) that mentioned them looking into “premium” subscription based services in the long term. It was deleted afterward and they have not mentioned whether it was true or not. If you think about it... Why would they build a cloud based online profile storing and sharing system that costs them money and just give it away free?

 

[DirkW]

There was a comment from Tommi (GD engineer) that mentioned them looking into “premium” subscription based services in the long term. It was deleted afterward and they have not mentioned whether it was true or not. If you think about it... Why would they build a cloud based online profile storing and sharing system that costs them money and just give it away free?

Should it be premium services that are more than we have now, and we can decide if we want them or not, might be kind of acceptable, despite it would probably harm customer loyalty and good will. I don't think they would really take away functionality and make it pay services: that would harm their business. Anyways it looks like it was only throwing out a not too well considered idea though if so, not?

 

[klh]

Right, there are many other reasons for it being problematic.
No doubt they could and will start it out free. Then later maybe add premium features, just like premium filters are only for the ultimate. Nothing really wrong with it, IF YOU KNOW UP Front, as a buyer, if you will be limited from something otherwise assumed included.

On top comes the whole priority discussion.
We lack:
* Improved filters.
* More filters.
* Adjustable settings by buttons. On podium you can do it on the base.
* Clear understanding from granite if they will work for us all, or keep putting pricing barriers in front of features and if we should expect more of that(it now seems likely).

To me it's simply wrong priority to do the online parts at the cost of the above.

It is annoying as they are now, within the next year, falling further behind on the above, unless things really change in those regards. But then they reveal they have been hard at work for a while on this new thing, that we as users will not realistically have anything but added trouble from for a long while instead.

But let's see if it improves. Mika from Granite has told us they have staffed up, so hopefully it does. Will not mean they win back what some of us perceive as a time loss of almost a year and it does remain to actually be seen happen.
Personally I give then the benefit of the doubt for some more months to see where things are headed, only bc I'm already invested.

 

[LeeHetherington]

Were we promised long term improving software for free? Nothing stopping us from running existing software. I’m not as pessimistic as some here.

Does Fanatec promise non-beta drivers?

 

[mrbean_phillip]

I will take some time to reply later, this whole thing is taken out of context and totally blown out of proportion. I am afraid many want to ill-informed decisions, where the SC2, online/offline filtering is concerned.

Typical interwebz, sigh.

cheers,
beano

 

[TedBrosby-]

All this drama could be resolved if they just assured us that:
They're not going to pay wall us with "online premium services" blocking filters.
They will stop insulting their own users by calling us grumpy old men who know "nothing" about modern UI and software.

For the record, a good portion of SC2's forum using owners are actually software engineers who work with UI and modern design patterns every day. So not only was that insult unwarranted, it was probably false as well.