Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[mtakala]

but what's wrong with MFC?

MFC was first introduced in 1992, and while being kept up-to-date, it is heavily dependent on Windows and Windows only (not natively cross platform), is pretty much C++ only (not viable in long term) and also it is not taking advantage of recent popular technologies. Even Qt is better. Our PC software does 100% compile to Linux at the moment. Perhaps even Android if it needs to be. But it is still C++ with is drawbacks....

Drop me a PM in GD forums, and I will be willing to demonstrate (in private Teams conference or such) the beta/initial release fallback option, and a very mockup of the longer term solution with cached online and manually created offline profiles. I think it would be mutually beneficial. And it takes a lot for me to say the previous in public.

 

[mtakala]

@TedBrosby- you have a quite good understanding of what we currently have in mind for the longer term option. Not exactly like that, but close.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

What about all other concerned users in that thread. Do they deserve to know all the details of your the new design?

 

[Rolfi]

Hi all, I have to chip in here couse I need your actual standing about Fanatec and GD. I want to step up from my logitech wheel and jump into the DD Wheel eco system. But I'm now concered that I have read the last 6 pages about the way GD goes.

What whould be your way if you can start new with the knowlege from today? Whould you go Fanatec or Simucube? I only play AC and ACC and for the fun Dirt 2.0 and Wreckfest.

And I also went to other forums watched every video I can find on youtube but I find the people from racedepartment realy techi and give some high hope on your opinions.

Thanks in advanced!

 

[d69morpwr]

Id still go with Simucube its a better DD wheel.

 

[Rolfi]

Does Fanatec is still behind in FFB with the newest beta drivers?

 

[klh]

Hi all, I have to chip in here couse I need your actual standing about Fanatec and GD. I want to step up from my logitech wheel and jump into the DD Wheel eco system. But I'm now concered that I have read the last 6 pages about the way GD goes.

What whould be your way if you can start new with the knowlege from today? Whould you go Fanatec or Simucube? I only play AC and ACC and for the fun Dirt 2.0 and Wreckfest.

And I also went to other forums watched every video I can find on youtube but I find the people from racedepartment realy techi and give some high hope on your opinions.

Thanks in advanced!

It's a hard question to answer right now.
Going SC2 is more expensive when you also want some good wheels for it.
Some people complaint about fanatec quality, some people have not had an issue. The QR might not be as good on the podium, but to some it's just great. It can be upgraded if you need that.

On top you have vrs directforce and the new simagic high end wheel(soon or already here, I'm not sure).

I know "Sim racing paddock" is currently in a more longish period of comparing. I'm sure you're following that.

So the crap answer: I would wait. Just a little longer. There are many answers coming. Will GD really gear up and move on the software AND the FILTERS and NOT dumb it down? We prob. won't know for at least a few more months, maybe even a year.
If you go SC2 you will have bought an expensive wheel too, and it might be the damnest loss if you have to sell soon again. That is what I am considering. I have an expensive wireless wheel with it. And the added issue is now that I don't feel comfortable buying new wheels, even though I really need one more.

With fanatec you buy in to their eco system. But they have shown they are seriously moving on the drivers/software. That was to catch up at first, but if both GD and Fanatec continued as they have in the last year, my belief is that fanatec is the "winner" overall, one more year from now.

So as you can tell, to me its down to the total feel of the ffb, the software possibilities and ease of use.

More complexity:
The software and filters are really important these days, since most Sims are tuned for belt driven wheel bases and they hold pretty low quality direct output. So for a DD to get closer to their potential you need the software and filters.
This might change as Sims improve their ffb for dd's as well. But how fast will that happen?

If ACC is important to you, you might be disappointed. Some people like it on DD, some people, like myself, feels it is completely unconnected/unplanted to/on the road. It felt better on my old ts-pc racer wheel base.

Actually: If you can find a very cheap used accuforce or csw 2.5, that is what I would advice and then sell that and upgrade to a higher end DD in a year or so.
All current sims prob. feel the best on exactly those 2 bases so you would get the best feeling this way. Then in a year you can see how the Sims are adapting or not to the dd bases and also see which dd manufacturers work FOR you, the user, or work their own agenda in a way that you might not like(as for example the "clever" GD marketing).

Btw: IF you decide on SC2, be aware that some filters are deemed Ultimate only. The gamma filter is one of these. That means GD prob. won't make that filter available on the "cheap" sport and "pro" versions. I would honestly avoid SC2 if possible just because of this single issue, since I have NO idea of knowing what next important filters just happens to be "marketing cleverly" deemed Ultimate only. I want to know the manufacturer wants to support my wheel base with every little software development they make, not be at the mercy of crap like that.

But who knows if directions will change. I have now decided to stay on my sc2 pro base and await the next months to see what happens and if things will actually move. So it's why I can only advice the same waiting position really.

Edit: Forgot to mention the on-wheelbase adjustment possibilities of the podiums. None of the other wheelbases have that, currently. I guess some new software could be made by GD to make this possible by assignable buttons directly on the wheel's button-box. We'll see if GD moves on that fast or if it's priority 100 and coming out in 2 years. For some reason online-exchange of settings has been deemed more important... Go figure... I would consider this a critical feature and if I was just buying it would be a big factor in that decision. Hmm... This makes me say that if I HAD to pick one just RIGHT NOW, I would pick the podium, I think. It's just one more feature Podium already has & we have no idea when any of these others might offer something to compete. Running VR it's hugely annoying to have to take it off and step over to the computer/monitor for every little thing I want to adjust - It makes it impossible to fine tune adjustments, As I would have to walk forth and back 100 times.. Even with software-solution from GD I would not be able to SEE the current settings. But then GD could also offer this as an additional, maybe wireless, adjustment box, speaking directly with the base or an upgrade panel for the base, would be nice.... Seems to me Fanatec is in the driver's seat these days & I don't see anything tangible that it's changing.

Summing up the crazy lengthy post, my opinion:
Either:

1) Buy a used csw 2.5 or Accuforce & enjoy prob. the best feeling FFB possible currently, then jump to DD in a year or 2, when sims support those better directly and you clearly see which manufacturer's approach is turning out better.

or

2) If you HAVE TO buy on right now, I would pick the podium between that and the SC2. But I would actually just as well pick the VRS directforce, since it's cheaper, good quality, no-bogus advancements & plenty high quality.

Just imho, I'm sure many people will agree & disagree, since it really comes down to what YOU want from the wheel base & how you feel in reg. to which brand might suit you best 1 year from now.

BIG CAVEAT: I DON'T own a podium & have not tried one either. Some people have jumped from podium bc they deem the smoothness difference a huge factor or they don't like the factory QR on the podium etc. etc... So again, no solution is perfect right now.


Good luck.

 

[RobertR1]

If ACC is important to you, you might be disappointed. Some people like it on DD, some people, like myself, feels it is completely unconnected/unplanted to/on the road. It felt better on my old ts-pc racer wheel base.

Yes, this continues to be the case for me as well. My SC1 is exactly as you describe.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Hi all, I have to chip in here couse I need your actual standing about Fanatec and GD. I want to step up from my logitech wheel and jump into the DD Wheel eco system. But I'm now concered that I have read the last 6 pages about the way GD goes.

What whould be your way if you can start new with the knowlege from today? Whould you go Fanatec or Simucube?

If I were choosing today, I'd probably go with VRS or simplicity, and give a serious look to Simagic when they release servo model.

 

[klh]

If I were choosing today, I'd probably go with VRS or simplicity, and give a serious look to Simplicity when they release servo model.

Agree completely to this. Def. worth considering.

Andrew: I assume you mean "simxperience", not "simplicity" in reg. to awaiting servo, right? I too am looking out for that if that's what you mean. Do you know if anything is happening there?

Just updated my post above with reg. to VRS. It seems to me to be a great option. No-nonsense. No visible world domination thoughts, at least not yet

Edit: Ah, you edited to simagic. Right.

 

[Rostovic]

If I were choosing today, I'd probably go with VRS or simplicity, and give a serious look to Simagic when they release servo model.

 

[Chrhun]

Fanatec seems to be coming up with proper official release drivers at last. I'm not sure if they are anywhere near being the winner of the "driver game", though. It's been quite frustrating getting a beta after a beta. In summer an update disabled the buttons on my unihub.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Agree completely to this. Def. worth considering.

Andrew: I assume you mean "simxperience", not "simplicity" in reg. to awaiting servo, right? I too am looking out for that if that's what you mean. Do you know if anything is happening there?

Just updated my post above with reg. to VRS. It seems to me to be a great option. No-nonsense. No visible world domination thoughts, at least not yet

Edit: Ah, you edited to simagic. Right.

I think on a hardware side Simagic Apha will be the closest to SC2, they have what seems like better wireless solution, and I even played with their software, which I actually liked (you can take a peek at it here).

VRS, is more like gutted down on software side SC1. The app looks remarkably like MMos, not sure if they have any plans on additional development in that area.

 

[klh]

I think on a hardware side Simagic Apha will be the closest to SC2, they have what seems like better wireless solution, and I even played with their software, which I actually liked (you can take a peek at it here).

VRS, is more like gutted down on software side SC1. The app looks remarkably like MMos, not sure if they have any plans on additional development in that area.

Only slight issue I see is the force of the Alpha is rated 15NM, not sure if that's peak or sustained.
But 15 seems to be right on the edge of what I need, so would prob. be just fine.

 

[mtakala]

So contrary to his opinions, Andrew likes simplified / reduced settings and features? I'm confused.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I'm confused.

We all have noticed that already.

 

[Neilski]

So contrary to his opinions, Andrew likes simplified / reduced settings and features? I'm confused.

We all have noticed that already.

OK, let's keep the discussions on topic and respectful please.

 

[Rolfi]

It's a hard question to answer right now.
Going SC2 is more expensive when you also want some good wheels for it.
Some people complaint about fanatec quality, some people have not had an issue. The QR might not be as good on the podium, but to some it's just great. It can be upgraded if you need that.

On top you have vrs directforce and the new simagic high end wheel(soon or already here, I'm not sure).

I know "Sim racing paddock" is currently in a more longish period of comparing. I'm sure you're following that.

So the crap answer: I would wait. Just a little longer. There are many answers coming. Will GD really gear up and move on the software AND the FILTERS and NOT dumb it down? We prob. won't know for at least a few more months, maybe even a year.
If you go SC2 you will have bought an expensive wheel too, and it might be the damnest loss if you have to sell soon again. That is what I am considering. I have an expensive wireless wheel with it. And the added issue is now that I don't feel comfortable buying new wheels, even though I really need one more.

With fanatec you buy in to their eco system. But they have shown they are seriously moving on the drivers/software. That was to catch up at first, but if both GD and Fanatec continued as they have in the last year, my belief is that fanatec is the "winner" overall, one more year from now.

So as you can tell, to me its down to the total feel of the ffb, the software possibilities and ease of use.

More complexity:
The software and filters are really important these days, since most Sims are tuned for belt driven wheel bases and they hold pretty low quality direct output. So for a DD to get closer to their potential you need the software and filters.
This might change as Sims improve their ffb for dd's as well. But how fast will that happen?

If ACC is important to you, you might be disappointed. Some people like it on DD, some people, like myself, feels it is completely unconnected/unplanted to/on the road. It felt better on my old ts-pc racer wheel base.

Actually: If you can find a very cheap used accuforce or csw 2.5, that is what I would advice and then sell that and upgrade to a higher end DD in a year or so.
All current sims prob. feel the best on exactly those 2 bases so you would get the best feeling this way. Then in a year you can see how the Sims are adapting or not to the dd bases and also see which dd manufacturers work FOR you, the user, or work their own agenda in a way that you might not like(as for example the "clever" GD marketing).

Btw: IF you decide on SC2, be aware that some filters are deemed Ultimate only. The gamma filter is one of these. That means GD prob. won't make that filter available on the "cheap" sport and "pro" versions. I would honestly avoid SC2 if possible just because of this single issue, since I have NO idea of knowing what next important filters just happens to be "marketing cleverly" deemed Ultimate only. I want to know the manufacturer wants to support my wheel base with every little software development they make, not be at the mercy of crap like that.

But who knows if directions will change. I have now decided to stay on my sc2 pro base and await the next months to see what happens and if things will actually move. So it's why I can only advice the same waiting position really.

Edit: Forgot to mention the on-wheelbase adjustment possibilities of the podiums. None of the other wheelbases have that, currently. I guess some new software could be made by GD to make this possible by assignable buttons directly on the wheel's button-box. We'll see if GD moves on that fast or if it's priority 100 and coming out in 2 years. For some reason online-exchange of settings has been deemed more important... Go figure... I would consider this a critical feature and if I was just buying it would be a big factor in that decision. Hmm... This makes me say that if I HAD to pick one just RIGHT NOW, I would pick the podium, I think. It's just one more feature Podium already has & we have no idea when any of these others might offer something to compete. Running VR it's hugely annoying to have to take it off and step over to the computer/monitor for every little thing I want to adjust - It makes it impossible to fine tune adjustments, As I would have to walk forth and back 100 times.. Even with software-solution from GD I would not be able to SEE the current settings. But then GD could also offer this as an additional, maybe wireless, adjustment box, speaking directly with the base or an upgrade panel for the base, would be nice.... Seems to me Fanatec is in the driver's seat these days & I don't see anything tangible that it's changing.

Summing up the crazy lengthy post, my opinion:
Either:

1) Buy a used csw 2.5 or Accuforce & enjoy prob. the best feeling FFB possible currently, then jump to DD in a year or 2, when sims support those better directly and you clearly see which manufacturer's approach is turning out better.

or

2) If you HAVE TO buy on right now, I would pick the podium between that and the SC2. But I would actually just as well pick the VRS directforce, since it's cheaper, good quality, no-bogus advancements & plenty high quality.

Just imho, I'm sure many people will agree & disagree, since it really comes down to what YOU want from the wheel base & how you feel in reg. to which brand might suit you best 1 year from now.

BIG CAVEAT: I DON'T own a podium & have not tried one either. Some people have jumped from podium bc they deem the smoothness difference a huge factor or they don't like the factory QR on the podium etc. etc... So again, no solution is perfect right now.


Good luck.

Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time and consider all actual things.

I tend to DD2 coused by the 5 year waranty and that fanatec is here in germany about 1 hour away from me. So I hope they keep up with the driver development.

Does the SC2 is much more ahead of the motor against the dd2 - or maybe there is more headfrom for driver improvements and filter devlopement?

I just don't like the fanatec padels - maybe they are releasing some new on black friday or I have to go with the sprints. I don't wanna wait a year more. I just wanna build a rig this christmass and just enjoy driving and don't have to look al the time for new stuff and finetune everything .

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Does the SC2 is much more ahead of the motor against the dd2

Things are mostly on controller and fw/software side, even popular Chinese Mige was already too good for what modern sims can deliver.

 

[TedBrosby-]

You guys will have to understand that @Andrew_WOT has been a pretty vocal advocate for Granite and the Simucube platform. His comments are the reason I bought my SC2 Pro (As much as me and him "disagreed" on things). The way GD's developers treated him on their community page, shut down the poll and censored the "grumpy old men", and started leaking out the future of True Drive being "online" with social media integration, it's understandable he might be feeling a bit betrayed and will recommend people go another direction. I personally am not a big fan of Andrew and I honestly felt really bad for him the way they responded to his comments on GD community page...

The ball is in GD's court on how they'll handle this... Although if as they say, their "old grumpy men forum members" are really a minority, it's possible they won't care in the slightest how we feel, and maybe I'll also have to sell my SC2 Pro on FB marketplace. lol. That would suck considering I promised my wife I wouldn't change my wheel base for "years" after how many I went through this year before buying the SC2.

Hi all, I have to chip in here couse I need your actual standing about Fanatec and GD. I want to step up from my logitech wheel and jump into the DD Wheel eco system. But I'm now concered that I have read the last 6 pages about the way GD goes.

What whould be your way if you can start new with the knowlege from today? Whould you go Fanatec or Simucube? I only play AC and ACC and for the fun Dirt 2.0 and Wreckfest.

And I also went to other forums watched every video I can find on youtube but I find the people from racedepartment realy techi and give some high hope on your opinions.

Thanks in advanced!

Which wheel base should I buy?
IMO, SC2 Pro is still "the best", but SC2 owners are nervous about the future and what it holds. Apparently GD developers have nerfed the maximum power draw of the SC2 Pro because the single PSU SC2 Pro (R2) they just released can draw less sustained power than the R1 2x Meanwell PSU version. They won't specifically state how much power has been reduced and keep telling us "you won't notice the difference". Combined with their all online platform, I would say wait on an SC2 until they release the new software and us "grumpy old men" will tell you what we think. I'm personally a 37 year old "grumpy old man" who's also a software engineer, with 300+ subscribers on my YT channel and I will be reviewing the new software when it drops, but I'm sure other more detailed/knowledgeable YT'ers will also review the new software.

My recommendation WRT Simucube 2 is "still good, but proceed with caution". In other words, it's good now, but if you buy it and something happens you don't like in the next few months, consider that I did warn you that it could get weird, software wise.
My rankings:

1. Simucube Caution: Might have controversy around the software in the coming months, can be quite expensive to get started. Wireless solution is limited to 28 inputs and no analog axis (for now).
2. VRS DirectForce Pro Caution: They are still on a queue based system, whether you can buy or not will depend on where you live
3. Accuforce V2 Complete Caution: If you live in Europe, the customs/shipping might make this horribly expensive, also it's quite a few years old and it's possible SimExperience might update the hardware
4. Simagic M10 GT4 Kit Caution: The Alpha is a stronger motor but has no GT4 wheel kit, it's a stepper motor and Simagic might release a servo motor version soon. It's only 10 Nm and most people say 15-20 is the sweet spot.
5. Simplicity SW20 V3 Caution: This is a one man operation and he used to sell Simucube kits. People have no idea how long he can support the business, if he's profitable, whether his software is just a reproduction of SC/MMOS.
6. Leo Bodnar SimSteering 2 Caution: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
7. Fanatec Podium PS4 Caution: Fanatec...

If you want to spend €2500, I recommend an aluminum profile cockpit €400, an SC2 Sport €1000, the BB Ultra wheel from Tomo at SRB €360, a cheap D shaped wheel €60, some Recaro clone seat €100, Sprint Pedals €580. But given all the controversy right now, it might be good for you to hold off on buying any DD wheel and wait to see how things turn out over the next month or so...

Since you said you want to upgrade pedals too, and we're in a weird place regarding SC2's software, I would recommend just buying the Sprint Pedals and a Sim-Lab cockpit first. Those are two huge upgrades and nothing in the next month or two will change our recommendation of those.

If you really want a wheel base right now, my best recommendation that has the least amount of controversy around it is VRS DirectForce Pro. Even Barry from SRG said he wouldn't mind using it as his main wheel if he didn't have a Leo Bodnar SS2. That's a compliment he didn't use for any other DD wheel he reviewed.