Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[avenger82]

Although, precisely in this link is a description of other current limiting scenarios( thermal constraints, continuous current limit) :

The current implementation is exactly maximum limit (Motor Continuous Current parameter)

I guess same the idea is the same, that if you lower the max force in TD the current is limited only if the set maximum is reached.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I guess same the idea is the same, that if you lower the max force in TD the current is limited only if the set maximum is reached.

Precisely, if anything it should affect max forces, not low level.

 

[jamescarruthers]

The current implementation is exactly maximum limit (Motor Continuous Current parameter)

I don't think that page explains anything to do with the overall strength slider in True Drive. It just discusses how the motor controller limits the current.

The manual states "Overall strength; This slider controls the overall force feedback strength"

I usually set ACC on 25% in-game and 100% in True Drive.

I just changed True Drive to 50% and I get less force.

For sure it scales the output rather than limits it (which is kind of the same thing - but different)

 

[Zoof2]

Is this thread going off topic ? Feedback off users of both DD wheels would be great

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I don't think that page explains anything to do with the overall strength slider in True Drive. It just discusses how the motor controller limits the current.

Because this is how it is implemented in SC1 and SC2.
And yes, we probably need to stop derailing the subj.
There was discussion on that a while back

 

[jamescarruthers]

Because this is how it is implemented in SC1 and SC2.

It's the technicalities of how a controller protects the motor from over-current and overheating - nothing to do with what the overall strength in True Drive does?

The page is linked to their other motor controller products - not Simucube? I presume they are related in some way - but, again, nothing to do with the Overall Strength function in True Drive.

On the forums they talk about current limiting to control torque - that's just how a motor works?

* edit * ok - it makes some more sense after reading through that thread

 

[klh]

Precisely, if anything it should affect max forces, not low level.

No matter me switching away, this is interesting. There def. is a difference that I can clearly feel in the low level. No doubt.

Will see if my time next week allows me to single it out for simplest possible reproduction for you guys as well.

 

[avenger82]

No matter me switching away, this is interesting. There def. is a difference that I can clearly feel in the low level. No doubt.

Will see if my time next week allows me to single it out for simplest possible reproduction for you guys as well.

Yeah I think @Andrew_WOT might be wrong. But this should be basic knowledge and conformed or denied right away.
Anyone knows how does lowering maximum force slider work in other DD wheels? I always thought it’s mostly like he suggested, that it only causes clipping and not scaling down all forces proportionally.
I’m pretty sure implementing additional slider that would enable that independently is not difficult.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It limits MCC, this is "basic knowledge" as confirmed by GD.
No different from lowering volume on power amp. Of course input signal needs to be mapped to the available power range, high level signal will be quieter, low level even more quieter, proportionally.
It's really better to take this to GD forum than bore everyone else here.

 

[klh]

It limits MCC, this is "basic knowledge" as confirmed by GD.
No different from lowering volume on power amp. Of course input signal needs to be mapped to the available power range, high level signal will be quieter, low level even more quieter, proportionally.
It's really better to take this to GD forum than bore everyone else here.

It's not relevant when comparing sc2 wheel bases to podiums? It is potentially a very big difference in both use and quality.

Edit: After more in-depth examinations I have found myself to be incorrect. There is NO difference in quality changing forces that can be attributed to Granite's HW or SW. What I have felt must have been sim specific issues. Sorry for this.

 

[milord37]

It's not relevant when comparing sc2 wheel bases to podiums? It is potentially a very big difference in both use and quality.
[/CITAZIONE]

I certainly agree! This is a very important information to take into consideration in order to make the right choice between SC2 and Podium

 

[avenger82]

It limits MCC, this is "basic knowledge" as confirmed by GD.
No different from lowering volume on power amp. Of course input signal needs to be mapped to the available power range, high level signal will be quieter, low level even more quieter, proportionally.
It's really better to take this to GD forum than bore everyone else here.

It looks like Podium users just enjoy driving instead of spending this time on such forums anyway

But seriously it seems with Fanatec wheels you chose “Apple” of simracing and with Simucube you chose “Widows/Linux”.
Not in therms of quality, or anything like that, but obviously Fanatec is more closed solution where everything just works (mostly) as long as you buy from Fanatec .
While Simusube or other DD solutions with OSW roots, allow more flexibility and with much wider ecosystem. So it attract more “power users” who spend more time changing things researching options and perhaps technical details etc.
Boosted media used somewhat similar metaphor. I just expanded it (perhaps a little too far, but I think there’s something to it).

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It looks like Podium users just enjoy driving instead of spending this time on such forums anyway

Or busy dealing with "real" issues.

I like console vs PC analogy myself, but from what I've seen that Fanatec software looks more complicated than TD, but I've never touched one, so perhaps not in the position to voice opinion on that.
TD after OSW is easy-peasy though.

 

[klh]

It looks like Podium users just enjoy driving instead of spending this time on such forums anyway

But seriously it seems with Fanatec wheels you chose “Apple” of simracing and with Simucube you chose “Widows/Linux”.
Not in therms of quality, or anything like that, but obviously Fanatec is more closed solution where everything just works (mostly) as long as you buy from Fanatec .
While Simusube or other DD solutions with OSW roots, allow more flexibility and with much wider ecosystem. So it attract more “power users” who spend more time changing things researching options and perhaps technical details etc.
Boosted media used somewhat similar metaphor. I just expanded it (perhaps a little too far, but I think there’s something to it).

I agree when it comes to the hardware.
But the software is just as locked down and it seems to me even fewer options and filters are available for Simucube 2 and some critical ways for controlling the power in general have been left out.
On top of that on Granite's forum it has been stated several times they might remove the direct access to the more "advanced" filters too.
So on the software it seems like Granite is wanting to go the Apple route, which is a real big turn-off for any power user. Really weird choice.

 

[avenger82]

But the software is just as locked down and it seems to me even fewer options and filters are available for Simucube 2 and some critical ways for controlling the power in general have been left out.
On top of that on Granite's forum it has been stated several times they might remove the direct access to the more "advanced" filters too.
So on the software it seems like Granite is wanting to go the Apple route, which is a real big turn-off for any power user. Really weird choice.

Interesting. I may understand some reasons behind that, but yeah that’d be disappointing. I ‘d expect such move more likely happen from a company like Fanatec.
Let’s hope that if they do that, they would still allow some indirect way or access via some hidden options(even with a warning it’s for advanced users).
That’s needed not only for “power users” , but just to allow more flexibility if anyone needs it.

I’d bet some people would chose different product just because of software limitations. Despite the fact the motor and the hardware part in general is definitely superior.

 

[klh]

Interesting. I may understand some reasons behind that, but yeah that’d be disappointing. I ‘d expect such move more likely happen from a company like Fanatec.
Let’s hope that if they do that, they would still allow some indirect way or access via some hidden options(even with a warning it’s for advanced users).
That’s needed not only for “power users” , but just to allow more flexibility if anyone needs it.

I’d bet some people would chose different product just because of software limitations. Despite the fact the motor and the hardware part in general is definitely superior.

Maybe... . I have had mine for quite a while now and I am not sure how big the difference could ever really be. But the ffb output from all the Sims currently is mostly made for more normal wheel bases anyways. It simply feels bad/nothing like a real car on a DD just yet. Add to that what I sense at low levels when not running the sc2 at full power and I very highly doubt it is any better than a dd1/dd2 in use, might just be the other way for all I know. At least until those advancements are made to Truedrive, but again, they say they will even go the other way so not really any hope... Hoping to try a dd1 or dd2 soon!

Edit: After more in-depth examinations I have found myself to be incorrect. There is NO difference in quality changing forces that can be attributed to Granite's HW or SW. What I have felt must have been sim specific issues. Sorry for this.

 

[TedBrosby-]

It looks like Podium users just enjoy driving instead of spending this time on such forums anyway

But seriously it seems with Fanatec wheels you chose “Apple” of simracing and with Simucube you chose “Widows/Linux”.
Not in therms of quality, or anything like that, but obviously Fanatec is more closed solution where everything just works (mostly) as long as you buy from Fanatec .
While Simusube or other DD solutions with OSW roots, allow more flexibility and with much wider ecosystem. So it attract more “power users” who spend more time changing things researching options and perhaps technical details etc.
Boosted media used somewhat similar metaphor. I just expanded it (perhaps a little too far, but I think there’s something to it).

You’re wrong.
I owned a CSW 2.5 and Fanatec users spend just as much time on forums because drivers constantly have issues that didn’t exist in previous drivers so users have to weigh new fixes and features versus losing old fixes and features.
Fanatec forums are full of people bringing up issues.
I liked that Fanatec had wheels at pretty affordable prices, and contrary to what people say here, their formula wheels are very good quality for such a low price... But to falsely claim that Fanatec users just enjoy driving while SC owners spend all their time on forums is super false.
Stop acting like you know everything about the people who own this hardware. It’s condescending.

 

[avenger82]

But to falsely claim that Fanatec users just enjoy driving while SC owners spend all their time on forums is super false.
Stop acting like you know everything about the people who own this hardware. It’s condescending.

Relax, as I said It was more of a joke than anything. Didn’t necessarily want to be condescending. Even if I stand by my claim, that Simucube owners are generally more likely to be “power users”. I admit it’s not based on hard, objective evidence, but rather my observations.
And even if it’d be true I’m certainly not saying Simucube users are somehow better than these “lame” Fanatec owners who just want to play their game. People have different hobbies, priorities and things they are interested in life.
Not every simracer would want to be a hardware expert like Barry from SRG.

 

[Glaniu]

The truth is, none of these pieces of equipment are perfect. Fanatec underdeveloped, and Simucube adapted from the industry.
I just don't understand why Ultimate, which is supposedly designed for simracing, doesn't have real wireless.

It's a conflict on the basis of Android vs iOS ;-)

 

[AccAkut]

Maybe... . I have had mine for quite a while now and I am not sure how big the difference could ever really be. But the ffb output from all the Sims currently is mostly made for more normal wheel bases anyways. It simply feels bad/nothing like a real car on a DD just yet. Add to that what I sense at low levels when not running the sc2 at full power and I very highly doubt it is any better than a dd1/dd2 in use, might just be the other way for all I know. At least until those advancements are made to Truedrive, but again, they say they will even go the other way so not really any hope... Hoping to try a dd1 or dd2 soon!

what sims are using the wheels with?

I'm just asking because I tried old LFS with my SC2 last weekend and was suprised how different, in some ways better and in some worse, it feels compared to Assetto Corsa. It felt more nuanced at low signal, but also tried ripping my fingers of on impacts, which AC doesn't really do. Had to lower FFB game output to 5% (at 100% True Drive setting) to make it feel comfortable to me.