Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[cnhoff]

I started out on a 3080/G2 combo in ACC and did not find the 50-60Hz i got to be particularly bad. After moving over to mostly playing Iracing at 90fps locked, i cannot stand anything below 80-90 Hz anymore.

Long way since the late 80s when I was happy to get 20fps in Wing Commander on a 286 running at a whopping 12 MHz.

 

[Elaphe]

I had the Index for a few days and I returned it. The glare on the lower side was completelly unacceptable. As soon as I look up a little, the whole interior of the car became pale and foggy. It was terrible.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It does appear that a frame rate that is acceptable does vary by person and I have noticed that any perceived latency is a huge issue as well.

60fps is not a problem per se, we all played 60hz monitors for ages without any issues.
The problem is that low persistence screens in HMDs completely black out between frames, and at 60Hz this flickering is getting noticeable, like bad fluorescent lamp, after a while you may or may not stop noticing it, depends on individual.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I agree that persistence and flickering are very real issues that are both very noticeable and immersion breaking.

In terms of flat displays, for many decades movies have been projected at 24 fps and somehow that was acceptable. I remember running an Atari on a TV with interlaced analog video and at the time it didn't bother me. That was 30fps or every other line at 60Hz. We are able to accept a lot on a display because it is external to our experience.

The reason that many people get nausea if the frame rate is lower than 90fps in VR is that it is trying to create a new reality that your brain has to accept. In VR the bar is higher for what works reliably.

Persistence and flickering are still important, but frame rate does matter more than against a flat screen. With the Index we found out that some people are more sensitive to higher frame rates than others. Some dismissed the higher frame rates and others found it made the experience more immersive.

For a track racing game where you are seated and not moving much, it would make sense that a lower frame rate could be more acceptable. The same goes for flight games. In a rally game where you are bouncing around at least in my experience a higher frame rate is more important. In room scale games the frame rate is also very important and in shooting games even more so.

I think we are coming back to the personal preferences vs. the trifecta.

In an ideal world we would have full vision field of view with retina level resolution at a high frame rate and since we don't have that we each decide what compromises we can live with and also importantly can afford.

There is no point arguing about personal preferences. We each have them and we will each defend our point of view.

Use what works for you!

Unfortunately it looks like the trifecta is still a long ways off and even parts of it are still extremely expensive. XTAL ($4800) essentially has a full FOV with no distortion at a reasonably high resolution, but only 75Hz. Varjo VR-3 ($3600+service fees) has a retina display but only in the very center of the display. So even at the very high end we are still not there. And as most will agree, we don't have a CPU/GPU combination that could drive that perfect headset if we had one.

The flip side is that if we had this perfect headset, it would likely show all the glaring faults of our games. So it's likely that the VR headsets, computer hardware and games will all continue to evolve together.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So there was that last "aesthetic only" change that I back burnered with the assumption that I would need to build it from aluminum angle, but I was thinking that maybe I could print something strong enough to work.

Past asthetics, I noticed that the Seat Bracket to Flight Throttle Bracket is actually 2 degrees off vertical. It also occurred to me that I might like the Throttle canted slightly away from me so I added a 5 degree horizontal angle and moved the bolt holes 1cm further out.

Basically if I'm going to bother printing a replacement, why not see if I can fix any issues or make improvements while I'm at it.

In a few hours I'll find out if this is both strong enough and if it has improved geometry.

I went straight to Galaxy Black with the hope this would be a single shot, but if there is room for improvement, I'll iterate some more.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Old Mount

New Mount. I think it looks much cleaner and I like the angle.

Results. There is no way that PLA is rigid enough to hold fast with two bolts. I should have seen this coming. It flexed WAY to much!!!!

2nd Attempt will be a 4 bolt design with substantial additional reinforcement and 4 perimeters. If this isn't solid, then I will need to go to metal.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The reason that many people get nausea if the frame rate is lower than 90fps in VR is that it is trying to create a new reality that your brain has to accept. In VR the bar is higher for what works reliably.

Many people get nauseous in VR regardless of framerate. There is nothing magical with 90fps, Rift S was 80Hz and it worked just fine, 60Hz WMR mode works for many as well except that faint flicker that after a while you just stop noticing.
It's the same as NTSC/PAL, PAL with 25fps which is not a problem for European users, but for NTSC users used to 30fps it may seem jerky at first.

 

[blekenbleu]

If this isn't solid,

Instead of recessing the upper pair of bolt holes so much,
consider longer bolts and more PLA thickness tied into webs/flanges.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Instead of recessing the upper pair of bolt holes so much,
consider longer bolts and more PLA thickness tied into webs/flanges.

Interesting thought. I definitely have plenty of longer bolts

I also looked at another way to increase rigidity by gripping the slots in the profile from a chunkier part. ( Not sure that I like how this looks as much )

I'll see how my 2nd print works and go from there, and I will measure my longer bolts to see what offsets on the top bolts could work.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The 2nd print was definitely an improvement and seemed usable, but still not as solid as I would like.

So taking the suggestion of using long bolts to reinforce the structure, I offset the bolt holes so that I could run 100mm M8 bolts nearly the full extent of this body.

Hopefully two 8mm bolts will substantially resist twisting, while keeping this a clean looking surface. The top surface now also includes the depth of aluminum spacers.

Fingers crossed! Printing now.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Well 3rd time's a charm!

@blekenbleu, your suggestion worked well. It's pretty solid now.

 

[blekenbleu]

pretty solid

Having one's intuitions elegantly implemented is wonderfully gratifying...

 

[RCHeliguy]

Having one's intuitions elegantly implemented is wonderfully gratifying...

And I appreciate the suggestion. It was a good idea that I'll remember in the future.

This was the very last thing on my todo list for my rig. There is not even a small aesthetic thing that I have waiting for me to get around to it.

December 22, 2022: Mark officially says there is nothing left to do. Period.

Time for some racing!

Lezduit!!!!!

 

[stigs2cousin]

December 22, 2022: Mark officially says there is nothing left to do. Period.

Heard and witnessed.

Happy racing


Carsten

 

[LeeHetherington]

Have you thought of next thing yet?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Have you thought of next thing yet?

Deciding which series I want to focus on. I think I'll stick with a fixed series first.

Also want to reasonably master one Helicopter enough for missions in DCS.

Edit: Spent some time practicing on Virginia International which is the Ferrari GT3 EVO fixed track this week. I missed the first race of this series. Interesting track. It's taking me a while to get reasonably fast on it while staying on the track. Today was my first day on the track and so far I'm within 7 sec of the VRS time. I'd like to shave off 2-3 more seconds and run an AI race or two to make sure I can stay on the track with full grid before I join a real race.

FYI, the current tire model seems pretty forgiving. I was able to recover from and even manage 4 wheel slides on this track, but the track itself requires some care.

I just had someone asking me in iRacing still had "the tree" at Virginia International, which I hadn't noticed. I was told it has been removed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looks like I do have a project when things warm up a bit.
I'm planning to wrap a thermostatically controlled water pipe heater down the length of the water pipe in the unheated wall of my garage. I've already installed a cut off where the pipe burst midway down that wall a few years back, but currently I have a space heater blowing on that area since my heat gun showed it was below freezing both above and below the cutoff.

https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Freeze-Protection-Heating-Regulating-Electric/dp/B096D8QP2G

https://www.amazon.com/ELEGRP-Lighted-Illuminated-Self-Grounding-Included/dp/B093PXHZ2J

 

[herve45]

Testing and iteration continue. The motion seems to check out.
View attachment 507389

I'm still waiting for a properly sized M8 bevel head bolt for the back. It should be here today or tomorrow.

There is an M8x40mm bolt going down through the slot into a trapped lock unit in the solid aluminum from the top of the rear NLRv3 arm slot. There is an M8x60mm bolt going from left to right to make a compression fit between the piece of angle and solid aluminum bar. There is a bevel head bolt coming up through the angle to make a solid connection with the aluminum bar.

I may extend the bar further, move the existing bolt further and add a side bolt through it.
View attachment 507388

NLRv3 tilted all the way back. Pushing back on it hard I can't get it to touch.
View attachment 507394

NLRv3 tilted all the way left. This is the closest point. If I push very hard on the back I can just about get it to touch. I may put a piece of UHMW tape on the underside just in case. I may also trim the edge of the angle back a more millimeters.
View attachment 507395

Tilted all the way forward, plenty of room.
View attachment 507390

Also all the way forward.
View attachment 507391

Tilted all the way right.
View attachment 507392

All the way up.
View attachment 507393

Hello
I am a faithful reader of your work.
Congratulations for what you do.

I have not been able to find the list of components to make this spring system which isolates vibrations.
Is there a post that lists all of this.

thank you

 

[RCHeliguy]

If you are looking for tactile information maybe you would like an invitation to the Good Vibrations Discord Server. There is a pile of information over there including the spring components.

 

[herve45]

Yes thanks