PC1 Latest Build testing.

Andy_J · Sep 8, 2012

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Chronus said:
Back on topic...almost.
What setup do you have, @Andy Jackson? Just that 27'' you mentioned earlier? Or are you one of the "privileged" ones with curved screens or triples?

Hi Chronos,
Just a Philips 27" 1080p monitor, but looking to buy a bigger screen soon. Maybe a 34" 2560x1440 single.

Andy

Kenny Paton · Sep 30, 2014

Andy, I think you summed it up with the phrase "a hit or miss". It really does feel like that. When you get a good combo it shines but of course the reverse applies. What I would say is that it is very atmospheric in a race and in that sense has borrowed elements from the console racers and that is no bad thing.
I really agree with you regarding older games, while everybody's crying out for the RRRE WTCC 2013 mod and BTCC cars, I'm happily playing the Race 07 mods.
We do this for enjoyment, Don't we!

Mircea Rad · Sep 30, 2014

I definitely recommend a triple screen set-up. If you don't think it's worth it, just go try it out somewhere and you will never go back to single screen

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Kenny Paton said:
We do this for enjoyment, Don't we!

We do Kenny. We do.

Chronus · Sep 30, 2014

Well, guys, you know (made no secret of it) why I do this - been a simulations fanatic for years ever since I picked up and changed physics simulations in Uni, then the bug grew bigger with flight sims and here I am now with simracing since GP4 and later rF came out. That aspect is paramount to me. But...

it is also about enjoyment. Like Kenny I still pick "old" sims - rF, GTR2 and Race07. They're competently realistic and truly fun.

The fanfare around the "next gen" don't move me as much (exception made of iR). And all these absurd wars about this or that hardware are meaningless (to me and fortunately so many others). They're just turning simracing into what it is not.

Kjell Eilertsen · Sep 30, 2014

Are people racing oldies like GTR2 online or just hotlapping them then? I don't mind old sims, physics and FFB trumps graphics, but I don't feel like only hotlapping. Sure I can put down a awful lot of hours alone on a track just practicing, but that is with multiplayer in mind for the future, if there's no multiplayer there's no carrot for me

Kenny Paton · Sep 30, 2014

Kjell Eilertsen said:
Are people racing oldies like GTR2 online or just hotlapping them then? I don't mind old sims, physics and FFB trumps graphics, but I don't feel like only hotlapping. Sure I can put down a awful lot of hours alone on a track just practicing, but that is with multiplayer in mind for the future, if there's no multiplayer there's no carrot for me

I'm an offline player, so the AI is important to me, and as Chronus has said the older games are more complete in that.
I would like to do multiplayer but due to problems with my legs I can't be to long at the pedals so I'm a really slow driver, the AI don't care about that and I won't ruin anyones race if I mess up.

RaceNut · Sep 30, 2014

@Andy Jackson
Andy, if you want to be a "Game Player" of another kind, that's your choice. Count me out. Please ignore my posts and I'll do the same for you. Easy Peasy.

I'm sorry to rest of you for derailing things a bit.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Dean Ogurek said:
@Andy Jackson
Andy, if you want to be a "Game Player" of another kind, that's your choice. Count me out. Please ignore my posts and I'll do the same for you. Easy Peasy.

I'm sorry to rest of you for derailing things a bit.

I'm happy for that. Please stop commenting on my posts and we will get on like a house on fire. Hows that? Really easy peasy. Start your own threads and discuss what ever you like.

"and all because I I said play your games without VR, it's just as much fun" Or is it because you don't like my latest build reports?

Bram Hengeveld · Sep 30, 2014

If you post on a public forum the public may respond. There is no such thing as "my thread".

If you wish to run "my threads" only you can start your own one person private forum of course

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Kjell Eilertsen said:
Are people racing oldies like GTR2 online or just hotlapping them then? I don't mind old sims, physics and FFB trumps graphics, but I don't feel like only hotlapping. Sure I can put down a awful lot of hours alone on a track just practicing,

There are still a lot of people that play offline. Not just hot lapping but actually having championships with the AI. As kenny stated, the older games are normally more complete in this fashion and provide superb AI racing. But even GTR2 has many online players in leagues etc.

I even still play Nascar Racing 2003 offline doing full seasons and I love it. I also do multiplayer in any of the sims, even Iracing. But I feel the modern games have lost or are losing the offline AI goodness lately and I was hoping the like of Pcars will redress the balance but I fear it will be void of good AI play and will merely be nice to look at and hotlap and maybe multiplayer.
One of the worst things about Pcars and the Shift series is the fact that you can't have quiet and private testing without big crowds and fun fairs in the back ground. That kills it for me.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Bram Hengeveld said:
If you post on a public forum the public may respond. There is no such thing as "my thread".

If you wish to run "my threads" only you can start your own one person private forum of course

Sorry Bram, I know what you mean. Perhaps it's best if he puts me on ignore and then he does not have to read my posts and will not see fit to comment on them?

Bram Hengeveld · Sep 30, 2014

As the cliche says: If you can't stand the heat get out of the .... thread.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Bram Hengeveld said:
As the cliche says: If you can't stand the heat get out of the .... thread.

Agreed.

Kjell Eilertsen · Sep 30, 2014

Andy Jackson said:
There are still a lot of people that play offline. Not just hot lapping but actually having championships with the AI. As kenny stated, the older games are normally more complete in this fashion and provide superb AI racing. But even GTR2 has many online players in leagues etc.

I even still play Nascar Racing 2003 offline doing full seasons and I love it. I also do multiplayer in any of the sims, even Iracing. But I feel the modern games have lost or are losing the offline AI goodness lately and I was hoping the like of Pcars will redress the balance but I fear it will be void of good AI play and will merely be nice to look at and hotlap and maybe multiplayer.
One of the worst things about Pcars and the Shift series is the fact that you can't have quiet and private testing without big crowds and fun fairs in the back ground. That kills it for me.

No multiplayer kills it for me, racing against AI is fun to me for a few laps then I'm done with that. Hence my question regarding old sims and online multiplayer.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Kjell Eilertsen said:
No multiplayer kills it for me, racing against AI is fun to me for a few laps then I'm done with that. Hence my question regarding old sims and online multiplayer.

I understand that. Most of them like I said still have thriving online multiplayer leagues or clubs. Especially GTR2 and Nascar Racing 2003. I also understand your offline play against the AI can be boring or predictable, hence why I prefer race sims with a grounded and well written AI as the main part of the sim.

Modern race games have terrible AI that seems to have been tacked on at the end to satisfy some casual gamers. I'm not fussed about nice photo like graphics and eye candy. I greatly prefer good FFB, physics and AI. All of which are not a strong point of the last build of Pcars in my opinion. But I am hoping it will change for the better in all counts. It is pre alpha after all.

Chronus · Sep 30, 2014

Several (well known) developers have stated that AI is not any longer interesting (one of them had millions on sales for the console market) due to:

1- the future is in social networking integrated into simracing. Therefore, multiplayer alone, together with a ranking system and action with a "community" sense is what brings in more fans

2- it takes too long to develop proper AI (and we all know it's not pure, autonomous Artificial Intelligence, no matter how complex parallel and branch decision systems are), too long to test and becomes too costly. What's worse, both the media and the more knowledgeable player community are all over titles with weak AI.

Until people get tired of the "multiplayer" action (er...never), the good ol' times of racing games with great AI are past us.

Kjell Eilertsen · Sep 30, 2014

Good or bad AI makes no difference to me, I just don't enjoy competing against artificial enemies. Same is true for other games with me though, I don't play the single player part of CoD or battlefield, and I stopped playing Skyrim after a few hours because I missed playing with and against other people.
Totally off topic I know, but I thought it important that others (like Andy) knows that to some of us the quality of AI really means nothing.

Kjell Eilertsen · Sep 30, 2014

Chronus said:
Several (well known) developers have stated that AI is not any longer interesting (one of them had millions on sales for the console market) due to:

1- the future is in social networking integrated into simracing. Therefore, multiplayer alone, together with a ranking system and action with a "community" sense is what brings in more fans

2- it takes too long to develop proper AI (and we all know it's not pure, autonomous Artificial Intelligence, no matter how complex parallel and branch decision systems are), too long to test and becomes too costly. What's worse, both the media and the more knowledgeable player community are all over titles with weak AI.

Until people get tired of the "multiplayer" action (er...never), the good ol' times of racing games with great AI are past us.

To me that is great news, though I completely understand and respect that others have different wants from their game so it's unfortunate for them.

Andy_J · Sep 30, 2014

Kjell Eilertsen said:
Good or bad AI makes no difference to me, I just don't enjoy competing against artificial enemies.

But if the AI was programmed to be as good (well better than most) human opponents. then racing would feel even better....surely? A good well written AI (GP4 for example) races better than anyone you find in public servers and some private ones.

But each to their own as you say. For me, I'd rather race against clever AI before clumsy ramming, non skillfull oomans anyday.