PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

@Andy Jackson

What's there to disagree with above erroneous post deleted away? Not that I really care, but hey...

 

[Chronus]

With @Andy Jackson's permission for a slight detour to this thread...

This calculator is useless. It recommends me 20 degrees of FOV or a sitting distance 45 cm from my 42" TV, lol.

Take a look at this thread (it's for AC but the math is adaptable to any sim):

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/assetto-corsa-faq-game-description.91105/

Whatever the calculator, the math is obviously absolute. But you don't have to follow it, you must choose the FOV which best fits your style/needs.

---
From the pics Andy and others posted, a relatively low FOV seems to be the norm rather than a larger one that warps the track and movement.

But a lot of YT uploaders seem to like the opposite. Case in point:

Just curious: how wide a FOV must the user have to produce the above on CARS?

 

[museumsteve]

This calculator is useless. It recommends me 20 degrees of FOV or a sitting distance 45 cm from my 42" TV, lol.

20 degrees using those measurements?

It is not useless, it is mathematically correct

 

[Rob]

Math or no math, the mere fact that it's adjustable is going to be a godsend for console players. Hopefully, things like look-to-apex and car "shake" are also adjustable. It's would add so much realism, in my mind, along with other subtitles I have noticed. All I can now play is Forza5, and the physics are ok, but it literally feels like you are driving disembodied from the car, just looking through the headrest on a gyroscope.

There seems to be a fair amount of people with race experience here...so you know what I mean. Racing is violent, gritty. scary, and very uncomfortable most of the time (which you tend to forget hopefully). I think that's what Shif2 half attempted before EA cut their knees off.

 

[RaceNut]

Once VR HMD's are readily available to the masses, the only POV most will want is that based on real head position in the car. It works extremely well and feels totally natural making checking mirrors, looking to apex and to the side very, very easy. Once the initial awe of VR wears off a bit and you settle into racing, it all works quite seamlessly and you wonder how you could ever return to using a monitor view again. Indeed, doing so may leave you wanting as it does for me, and that's with the current limitations of the DK2.

 

[Chronus]

Once VR HMD's are readily available to the masses, the only POV most will want is that based on real head position in the car. It works extremely well and feels totally natural making checking mirrors, looking to apex and to the side very, very easy. Once the initial awe of VR wears off a bit and you settle into racing, it all works quite seamlessly and you wonder how you could ever return to using a monitor view again. Indeed, doing so may leave you wanting as it does for me, and that's with the current limitations of the DK2.

Without cable, 439 grams. Slightly less "cumbersome" than VR equipment used by the military, positional tracking at 60 Hz (it will get better rapidly). Sounds good, but in my opinion it's not quite as involving as having 3 good monitors and much less a 160'' curved monitor - though it is significantly less expensive (the consumer model, that is).

And a small detail: in the real world, you move your head but your eyes can stay focused on something without the visual field undergoing significant movement. Even with some military portable VR hardware, there is a need to adapt to significant movement of the visual field even when you're targeting a specific region or object because motion is tracked via "head trackers". More sophisticated equipment (some HMD used by combat a/c) do have eye-tracking capabilities, not only head trackers, but they're not on the consumer market yet (maybe SMI will join hands with Occulus VR to give the consumer market that - they did that with DK1).

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Without having testing all these options, I still think you are wrong, but then again I suspect that you haven't tested VR either. So far I haven't heard of anyone who have tested it extensively who doesn't think it beats triple screens hands down as far as immersion goes.

 

[William Wester]

Without having testing all these options, I still think you are wrong, but then again I suspect that you haven't tested VR either. So far I haven't heard of anyone who have tested it extensively who doesn't think it beats triple screens hands down as far as immersion goes.

How does VR work for those of us that need cheaters (eye wear)? I never did like 3D because of the need to wear something over my glasses. It sounds cool but not everyone will want to wear head gear.

 

[Chronus]

And there's that, William. Well pointed.

A good idea for some (those who can enjoy it), offlimits to other people, and finally something not yet at its full potential (latency, updates, lack of eye-tracking abilities). It will improve and probably be a big consumer product very shortly.

 

[RaceNut]

Eye tracking is something that has been talked about by Oculus and one person that tried Crescent Bay even hinted that it may be coming sooner than previously thought. That aside, the rift DK2 already works very well. Reductions in latency and improved image quality in CV1 (already done judging by Crescent Bay reports) will make it the next big thing to have within the next year or so.

The other aspect that is often overlooked when comparing VR to triple-monitor setups is that of 3D. 2D to 3D conversions are not that impressive, in-game VR 3D is quite different. It's more natural, convincing and does not cause eyestrain like the 3D we often see in cinema. It's basically real 3D, not an imitation. I don't think triples can match the overall immersion and sense of presence of the Rift head-tracking combined with 3D. It's one of those things that people don't understand until they try it for themselves.

 

[Andy_J]

Jesus H..........just drive the game. Enjoy them for what they are. Games.

Tonight I did a 30 lap race at 1991 Adelaide in a 1991 F1 Ferrari in my modded GTR2 and guess what folks, I thoroughly enjoyed coming 3rd after a really hard race against great ai. And not a fricken VR headset to be seen. Nobody needs this VR stuff, not really to enjoy gaming.

Just play and enjoy. It's not real life.

 

[Andy_J]

By the way, back on topic. Pcars latest build for me at least is a crash fest. But that is to be expected apparently. All bug fixing starts now.
Tried many modes, but Formula A at Brno was a disaster, as was B. The A cars sound like my wifes cheap hair dryer and handles about the same. Wont be trying that one again.
AI in races is bad still, even at Silverstone, pit stops are still hit and miss. The open wheel classes are particularly bad at this build on the tracks I tested them on. Replays are bad too, with cameras showing more armco's and grass than cars.

The game looks brilliant though.

The GT cars handle reasonable at most tracks. Really like the BMW GT3 and Z4, but replays are still pretty much hit and miss at this point. The game is very unstable, lots of crashes to desktop. "But is pre Alpha".

Not all bad though. Some open wheelers, like the one above are superbly detailed and are a handful (not compared to the the same mod era in GTR 2 though) and are laugh to race, especially at tracks like Oulton Park and Silverstone. Love throwing them around. But you can't have a private test session at any track. Even 4 in the morning on xmas day has a full compliment of fans and sound effects that spoil the immersion. They have to change this aspect. It is a game spoiler.

The Nord is still fantastic though. I really mean it. I'd buy it just for the Nord. Try it with a good GT car and you will love it. But the current FFB is not very good compared to AC on the same track, but not far behind. In fact, even going straight to GTR 2 after a session with Pcars is like night and day. GTR2 is day and Pcars is night. I challenge anyone to test and find differently. GTR2 feels so much better even if it looks dated on my boring 27" flat monitor.

To be honest, in my opinion, Pcars is beautiful to look at, but it ain't a patch on GTR 2 at this current build and time, handling and physics wise. And not as much fun either.

GTR2

Sorry, but that's how I see it right now. I look forward to seeing Pcars improve over the next few weeks.

Andy.............

 

[Chronus]

Eye tracking is something that has been talked about by Oculus and one person[...]

Eye-tracking has been around for (much) longer than that.

Anyway, to my recollection SMI was the one company that integrated E-T into Occulus R. (which is something Occulus hasn't incorporated yet into consumer products), and that was for DK1. And what they showed looked rather promising.

I don't think triples can match the overall immersion and sense of presence of the Rift head-tracking combined with 3D.

When eye-tracking comes in, then you'll see what is missing (from that experience).

For now...as I said in the other post, in my opinion, triples or curved screens are much more..."immersive".

The other aspect that is often overlooked[...]It's one of those things that people don't understand until they try it for themselves.

Perhaps not. Some have tried it (VR devices) and don't think much of it. I don't.

It's one of those things most often overlooked: it depends on one's preferences. (In particular when some (many?) ophthalmologists believe VR devices can cause adverse effects to the eye.)

Pcars latest build for me at least is a crash fest. But that is to be expected apparently.
Tried many modes, but Formula A at Brno was a disaster. Car sounds like my wifes cheap hair dryer and handles about the same.
AI in races is bad still, even at Silverstone.

Gotta a quick question for you: as far as you testing goes, AI is equally "bad" for all cars? Or do you notice some cars have better AI behaviour?

 

[Andy_J]

Gotta a quick question for you: as far as you testing goes, AI is equally "bad" for all cars? Or do you notice some cars have better AI behaviour?

So far, it's not bad with some cars, but it is hit and miss. Remember, they are still tweaking it. The Aston Martins are reasonably good Chronos, but not on a par with GP4 or GTR2 or even Shift 2 to be honest. But it is "pre alpha" remember.

They will be needing to do some drastic changes before release I reckon.

Just my opinion though. And they won't like it. I will probably get the sack.

 

[Chronus]

You're just giving your opinion, other WMD members ought to accept it (even if they disagree).

So far, it's not bad with some cars, but it is hit and miss. Remember, they are still tweaking it. The Aston Martins are reasonably good Chronos, but not on a par with GP4 or GTR2 or even Shift 2 to be honest.

It makes sense (the hit and miss), as I have said all along physics modelling-AI-physics calibrations are all intertwined, there's no simple step that solves everything. And it takes time. (Yeah...I remember.)

The comparison to Shift 2 is unsettling, though. I spent a lot of time figuring out (a) why they rammed you even more than in pure ISIMotor2 titles, (b) why the frequent roll over at some tracks (Laguna, Road America) and finally (c) why they either acted like Ayrton Senna on rockets or like Coulthard drunk and with a concussion.

There's still time till November...I hope.

UPDATE:

beautiful pictures, sir!
[GTR2 is and looks amazing. Still!]

 

[james]

By the way, back on topic. Pcars latest build for me at least is a crash fest. But that is to be expected apparently. All bug fixing starts now.
Tried many modes, but Formula A at Brno was a disaster, as was B. The A cars sound like my wifes cheap hair dryer and handles about the same. Wont be trying that one again.
AI in races is bad still, even at Silverstone, pit stops are still hit and miss. The open wheel classes are particularly bad at this build on the tracks I tested them on. Replays are bad too, with cameras showing more armco's and grass than cars.

The game looks brilliant though.

The GT cars handle reasonable at most tracks. Really like the BMW GT3 and Z4, but replays are still pretty much hit and miss at this point. The game is very unstable, lots of crashes to desktop. "But is pre Alpha".

Not all bad though. Some open wheelers, like the one above are superbly detailed and are a handful (not compared to the the same mod era in GTR 2 though) and are laugh to race, especially at tracks like Oulton Park and Silverstone. Love throwing them around. But you can't have a private test session at any track. Even 4 in the morning on xmas day has a full compliment of fans and sound effects that spoil the immersion. They have to change this aspect. It is a game spoiler.

The Nord is still fantastic though. I really mean it. I'd buy it just for the Nord. Try it with a good GT car and you will love it. But the current FFB is not very good compared to AC on the same track, but not far behind. In fact, even going straight to GTR 2 after a session with Pcars is like night and day. GTR2 is day and Pcars is night. I challenge anyone to test and find differently. GTR2 feels so much better even if it looks dated on my boring 27" flat monitor.

To be honest, in my opinion, Pcars is beautiful to look at, but it ain't a patch on GTR 2 at this current build and time, handling and physics wise. And not as much fun either.

GTR2

Sorry, but that's how I see it right now. I look forward to seeing Pcars improve over the next few weeks.

Andy.............

Nice! Where did you get the 91?

 

[RaceNut]

Jesus H..........just drive the game. Enjoy them for what they are. Games.

Tonight I did a 30 lap race at 1991 Adelaide in a 1991 F1 Ferrari in my modded GTR2 and guess what folks, I thoroughly enjoyed coming 3rd after a really hard race against great ai. And not a fricken VR headset to be seen. Nobody needs this VR stuff, not really to enjoy gaming.

Just play and enjoy. It's not real life.

Wow, aren't you special Andy. Good for you! What happened to live and let live?

"Just play and enjoy. It's not real life."
Isn't that the point? To play and enjoy - the way we want, in VR if we want? Jesus H indeed.

 

[Andy_J]

Nice! Where did you get the 91?

Hi James. No Grip has loads of GTR2 mods. I think I got the 91 mod from there a while ago.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Andy_J]

Wow, aren't you special Andy. Good for you! What happened to live and let live?

"Just play and enjoy. It's not real life."
Isn't that the point? To play and enjoy - the way we want, in VR if we want? Jesus H indeed.

What's your problem Dean? I am merely pointing out to those that can not afford VR, that games are playable now, without VR. Get enjoying them now. Why the attitude with me? It seems that people like you have something to always protect and get high and mighty about. Why would you get so upset?

 

[Chronus]

Back on topic...almost.

Can't recall if you told posted that somewhere, but in regards to VR and single/triples...

What setup do you have, @Andy Jackson? Just that 27'' you mentioned earlier? Or are you one of the "privileged" ones with curved screens or triples?

I still have ( ) a single 22'' HP. If I recall correctly, David, gears, ravenmorpheus and a few others still run sims with a single. Even some of the top PRO iRacers drive like that.