PC1 Latest Build testing.

Andy_J · Sep 8, 2012

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

Micas_WMD · Jul 5, 2013

Birddogg66 said:
Well I guess we will just never agree with each other David which is fine.

I don't suspect Ben Collins nor Nic Hamilton will agree either, but those guys have only made a career of driving actual racing machines. They can't be expected to understand that the impression of what one thinks is actual car handling can live up to what someone else thinks it would be like to drive a race car when never having actually done so.

I suppose there will be sims out there to satisfy the imagination of the video game players. It won't be pCARS.

Oh, I know.. Ben and Nic are paid consultants so they must be lying. Disregard my earlier points.

Graham Byford · Jul 5, 2013

Nic's feedback is great, he's highlighted many issues with the physics and behaviour of the cars hopefully the devs will act. I think being a sim racer and real racer helps, he has ideal credentials.

David Ignjatovic · Jul 5, 2013

Yo Mica$$, I'm not trying to convince anyone who's made up their mind.

David Ignjatovic · Jul 5, 2013

Birddogg66 said:
Well I guess we will just never agree with each other David which is fine.

I agree

Micas_WMD · Jul 6, 2013

David Ignjatovic said:
find it hard to believe anyone with a wheel would call this a sim or think it'll become one.

David Ignjatovic said:
Yo Mica$$, I'm not trying to convince anyone who's made up their mind.

That's so awesome.

Birddogg66 · Jul 6, 2013

I remember when there were some who were calling GTR2 Arcade back in the day while others were calling rF1 ice driving. Both are very fine titles both are sim so no I don't think these types of discussions will ever end. I just wonder what these same people think now?

Chronus · Jul 6, 2013

Birddogg66 said:
I remember when there were some who were calling GTR2 Arcade back in the day while others were calling rF1 ice driving. Both are very fine titles both are sim so no I don't think these types of discussions will ever end. I just wonder what these same people think now?

A lot of those calling GTR2 "arcade" or "super-grip racing", etc, were from the NR2003/GPL/iRacing camp. This came from the fact that these people believed that grip was dramatically reduced the moment a tire reached its peak slip angle and began its transition phase. For them, GTR2 was "too grippy". Wrong, obviously, many tests/discussions proved the contrary (yes, grip coeffs were often too high, but load sensitivities and slip were too aggressive and provided for dramatic grip loss after the peak).

As for rFactor being called "ice driving"....don't recall that. I do remember some people complaining about the grip levels of the Panoz cars, but other than that, more often than not people (usually the same) complained about too much grip.

Anyway, as you surely know, this stems from the fact that a lot (A LOT) of people know too little about MF based tire models and ISIMotor2 in particular. Even today, with C.A.R.S. and iRacing fans, that remains unchanged.

Birddogg66 · Jul 10, 2013

Well I think the majority of people look back on rF1 and in their minds they are thinking of those awesome mods for it that were created by the community that did some tweaking to the tire model to boost realism. ISI still has the best game engine in my opinion in regards to what you can do with it. Just seems that what ISI has done with it has not always been the best and the modding community has made it really shine. I still think this will be the case going forward.

TherealWalkman · Jul 12, 2013

I´m looking back at GTR Evolution. I could drive the nordschleife like I do in real life and thats what counts for me. In PCARS (now) I cannot do this. The graphics and all are great but the FFB in PCARS doesn´t feel right. There are so many infos missing that are the basic input when you drive a car on the limit. The FFB feels alive and has big potential but I cannot feel the car loosing grip f.e., the steering wheel wiggles around with every bump like without dampening and fiddling around with the setup couldn´t change that for me. I love the sturdyness of the wheel in hold, but as soon as you start driving it goes completely limp. Have the same descriptions from my buddies. So I cannot be that wrong.

RaceNut · Jul 12, 2013

TherealWalkman
I generally agree with your opinion on the FFB in Pcars, that's the biggest issue with the driving feel IMO. It might be interesting to disable FFB altogether and then compare it to other titles in terms of pure physical/visual behavior.

I have to say though, after reading some of the posts in the WMD forums "Physics" threads, the desire to achieve a very high level of realism is there and progress is being made on some cars. The latest build demonstrates some great results in off-track behavioral differences between grass & gravel traps. Obviously, that does not mean that the on-track behavior is spot-on but, it does suggest that they are working to get the details right. It just hasn't all come together in the FFB yet.

TherealWalkman · Sep 7, 2013

WOW, nothing happens here anymore...

Birddogg66 · Sep 7, 2013

TherealWalkman said:
I´m looking back at GTR Evolution. I could drive the nordschleife like I do in real life and thats what counts for me. In PCARS (now) I cannot do this. The graphics and all are great but the FFB in PCARS doesn´t feel right. There are so many infos missing that are the basic input when you drive a car on the limit. The FFB feels alive and has big potential but I cannot feel the car loosing grip f.e., the steering wheel wiggles around with every bump like without dampening and fiddling around with the setup couldn´t change that for me. I love the sturdyness of the wheel in hold, but as soon as you start driving it goes completely limp. Have the same descriptions from my buddies. So I cannot be that wrong.

Good feedback but you forgot to include one important element: What Wheel are you using? What wheels are your buddies using also with what cars are you driving. Other than that I see this as very constructive feedback.

TherealWalkman · Sep 7, 2013

Andrew you know me from WMD

You know I use a G25.
My buddies mainly use those as well. One drives with a Fanatech wheel (that orange one).

Birddogg66 · Sep 8, 2013

TherealWalkman said:
Andrew you know me from WMD You know I use a G25.
My buddies mainly use those as well. One drives with a Fanatech wheel (that orange one).

Well I did try the Friday build tonight with my CSW and it seemed like there was a bit more steering force and a heavier center spring effect. I did not however redo my default.sav file. I ran a few laps in the Zonda and the Lancer. Upon exit I deleated my .sav file and will remap everything upon next load.

TherealWalkman · Sep 8, 2013

Since I´m still in trouble with moving my home and rearranging stuff I´m not yet able to test PCARS. But the Lotus 98T from a few week ago felt quite nice except for the point when you lose grip. The space of losing grip and have no grip at all is very short with this car which is correct, but it gives me a very small base to make a judgment. Therefor I´m eager to get a car with a wider threshold. Like the Pirault. But that car is far from being testable.

David Ignjatovic · Sep 9, 2013

Latest build is terrible again, horrible FFB and not remotely sim like.
Month after month it feels the same.

TherealWalkman · Sep 14, 2013

Starting to think that outside of the wmd forum the love for pcars has more or less swept away. The German forums show a similar frustration with the ffb and how people get muzzled at wmd as soon as they ask for the poor physics and ffb.

ANd now here nobody tests it anymore?

Birddogg66 · Sep 14, 2013

TherealWalkman said:
Starting to think that outside of the wmd forum the love for pcars has more or less swept away. The German forums show a similar frustration with the ffb and how people get muzzled at wmd as soon as they ask for the poor physics and ffb. ANd now here nobody tests it anymore?

Well I'm not really here but still testing and being fairly quiet about it since there is not too much for me to get bent on feeling I have to make an issue of it in the physics threads. Sure I commented on the FFb a few days ago since I believe it felt different for me. What's important is I do find realistic challenge in driving the cars and am able to make adjustments to suit how the car needs to be driven. Still I think some of the cars to be really good and some seem to be a little bit of a handful when first jumping in to them. My outlook however is that there are people involved that dig more into the technical data and different elements of the games features way better than me and I think they are doing a fine job and trust that this title will be a well respected Driving(Racing) Simulation at release.

Graham Byford · Sep 15, 2013

I'm still testing the game, in spite some improvement the fundamental issues remain and it still reminds me of driving a tweaked Shift game, especially the FFB that lacks any decent feel of weight shift/rear grip loss, and the majority of the cars still respond and feel like they are too light running on lazy/flat tyres. I've doubted the physics engine from the start as it's based on Shift, and I still have those doubts despite improvements to the tyres, but tyres aren't everything.

Driving Power and Glory 3.0 after driving this is night and day difference even on a budget wheel/pedals combo.