Is VR dead?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 197115
  • Start date
If you need the Varjo XR-4 as a Xmas present, it can be pre ordered and delivered in December for Xmas...No base stations needed.

But in a few months hopefully, we should see the release of the Pimax 12K and the Somnium VR-1 (and the Apple Vision Pro of course).

The Pimax 12K is announced with an impressive 200 degrees of hFOV, which is finally an alternative to a triple monitor setup for sim racing: https://pimax.com/pimax-12k/

And the Somnium VR-1 : https://www.somniumspace.com/
 
If you need the Varjo XR-4 as a Xmas present, it can be pre ordered and delivered in December for Xmas...No base stations needed.

But in a few months hopefully, we should see the release of the Pimax 12K and the Somnium VR-1 (and the Apple Vision Pro of course).

The Pimax 12K is announced with an impressive 200 degrees of hFOV, which is finally an alternative to a triple monitor setup for sim racing: https://pimax.com/pimax-12k/

And the Somnium VR-1 : https://www.somniumspace.com/
Never and never again Pimax products!
 
The more products we have, the better it is for all of us.
We need innovation. No just some minimal improvements like many of the current products.

Honestly in 2023 (almost 2024) we should finally get some good and comfortable VR goggles with a good clarity (higher PPD, quality lenses, etc....) and with FOV similar to the human vision IMHO.

In that sense I can't wait to see the Pimax 12K soon released.
Will I buy it? Not sure....(if the Apple Vision Pro works for sim and flight sim, then I will buy it for sure)
 
Will Apple Vision Pro support pc gaming?!

There is no expectation to have a tether to a PC or to support PC gaming.

Some games will be ported to run natively on the Apple Vision Pro.

Eventually there may be an app allowing a Windows desktop to show up, if they allow it in their store.
 
I think this below is part of the future and one of the reasons I believe the industry is moving away from triple based displays.

Certainly something we couldn't really do before and to be fair it may be a while before we can apply, position and create multi display virtual setups to work flawlessly. Yet new technologies, even like the XReal Pro that are not much larger than regular sunglasses and can offer AR and ability to game with large screen experiences.


 
Last edited:
It's not reasonably priced, but still impressive in that he said he saw ZERO moire or CA and only had pupil swim around the very edges of the display. He said it was the best aspheric lens system he's ever seen with the widest FOV and best edge to edge clarity even compared to the Quest Pro pancakes.

For all the complaints about price, they have dropped the price a lot compared to the XR-3. So this is actually a move in the right direction. Better tech at lower pricing.


Since it is using two lenses like the Somnium VR1, it makes me wonder if those optics will also be in the best aspherics lens category.
 
Last edited:
It's not reasonably priced, but still impressive in that he said he saw ZERO moire or CA and only had pupil swim around the very edges of the display. He said it was the best aspheric lens system he's ever seen with the widest FOV and best edge to edge clarity even compared to the Quest Pro pancakes.

For all the complaints about price, they have dropped the price a lot compared to the XR-3. So this is actually a move in the right direction. Better tech at lower pricing.


Since it is using two lenses like the Somnium VR1, it makes me wonder if those optics will also be in the best aspherics lens category.
Con's:
- "Edge distortion" and "It warps a bit". So the warping doesn't seem to be solved. After all these years, the biggest Varjo issue is seem to be still there.. But sometimes Sadly doesn't wear the HMD correctly on his head, this also seemed to be the case in this video; because at the FoV part he tells that he didn't wear it correctly; after adjusting the HMD he at once had much more FoV. Witht the Crystal he made the same mistake(but he didn't correct it/didn't want to correct it because of his pimax hate), so it's not completely clear IF the distortion was still there after he adjusted the headset. We have to wait for more info about this from other users to see if the Varjo warping issue is solved or not. Because of what I mentioned sadly isn't completely objective when it comes to this subject.

- The local dimming, according to sadly, also still seems to be not implemented properly from what I understand from him. Because the blacks/contrast of the Crystal are very close to what I experienced from a OLED panel when I use the 0.01 json fix. I hope that it's much better than the Aero, the contrast/blacks/colors; we have to wait for more info about this.

- Regarding the form factor: The design looks very VERY long/deep, even double as long as the Crystal if you look at his head from side! It looks just nuts, I hope that the weight isn't all the way at the front of the HMD and that's even without the local dimming module mounted(which makes it even longer probably). Maybe that's going to be even to much for me... I'm a bit concerned about the comfort. The Aero wasn't comfortable for me, this design looks unclear, have to test it and judge it myself.

- The price is extreme. Maybe an Aero 2 without MR and other features will be properly priced at the initial Aero price.

- Comes with camera tracking by default, price of lighthouse tracking is insane with 1200 euro.

Pro's:
- The CA/color shifting seem to be solved which is a great great thing.

- Resolution is amazing.

- Edge to edge clarity (except possible warping) seems to be amazing.

- FoV is great and probably the stereo overlap too(I expect that, based on the FoV).

- The nits are amazing.

This sounds VERY promising for the Aero 2. Let's hope that the warping isn't really there/or that they find a way to fix this and the same for the local dimming. Because especially the warping was a massive issue of the Aero for me, but I also want proper blacks. It's also not clear if they solved the motion blur issues, but I expect that they did(BUT it's dangerous to go by assumtions when it comes to VR, has to be validated first). If that's all clear and the comfort isn't too bad then I'll surely consider buying an Aero 2 if it's not more than ~2500 euro including tax and lighthouse tracking.
I'm sure more people will move away from triples eventually, but I think we still have a while to wait before it makes sense for many people to consider.
True but it has to get way more affordable first(not only the HMD but you also need the best GPU). And also become more user friendly first. It's insane how much I had to tweak everything, average users won't be able to do that so they get a much worse experience than me.
 
Never and never again Pimax products!
Never judge a company on one exprience. I had a horrible experience with the Varjo Aero, it was my worst experience in tech to date; that bad. But if Varjo solves all the issues with their new product range, then I'm happy to buy Varjo again.

The same story with Pimax. Initially I had an terrible experience with their lenses and I had issues with the cable. If it stayed that bad, then I surely would have returned the product. But they solved all the issues within a reasonable (to me) timeframe. And now I'm a very happy Pimax user. They also gave me great support with every issue.

So I agree with @drvrn. All innovation is great at VR and competition creates innovation. As simple as that. So more brands on the market is great for us even if you don't like the brand for emotional reasons.
 
While not in VR terms by any means the highest quality, I was very much impressed by how well and how much fun PS5 in GT7 with VR2 is... Still probably the best looking racing game you can enjoy in VR, even from a spectacle of enjoying/experiencing the car models interior and exterior, wow.

Certainly for VR enthusiasts its amazing what Sony have done with the technology and at the price. You are up and running with the game in no time at all.

I dont have much faith in Pimax, they always seem to screw things up or the user experience is so flawed/broken...
 
Last edited:
Explain how jailbreaked will equal PC VR support and how it would connect.

Do you think many people will buy a $3500 headset to jailbreak, knowing Apple could brick the device?
OK, you are obviously not familiar with this I see. LOL

The jailbreak allows among others to have apps that are not in the App store etc...And there is a large community worldwide around this topic, users and developers.

Here a start for you:

And yes I will definitely jailbreak it if I can use it for PCVR.
Jailbreak doesn't destroy your device....You can revert to stock whenever you want.
I use for example 2 iPhones, one is stock iPhone and the other is jailbreaked and I don't see any problems with that. I also have another Macbook Pro running some exotic OS and that MBP cost more than $3500...
 
Never judge a company on one exprience. I had a horrible experience with the Varjo Aero, it was my worst experience in tech to date; that bad. But if Varjo solves all the issues with their new product range, then I'm happy to buy Varjo again.

The same story with Pimax. Initially I had an terrible experience with their lenses and I had issues with the cable. If it stayed that bad, then I surely would have returned the product. But they solved all the issues within a reasonable (to me) timeframe. And now I'm a very happy Pimax user. They also gave me great support with every issue.
Thanks for the feedback concerning Varjo and Pimax!

Good to hear some good experience with them (Internet is usually only about ranting sometimes). And actually I may just get the Pimax 12K and try it out.
 
Everyone including all the hyped youtubers seemed to see it(and saw it as the biggest downside) except you. Magic. Or did you only do night races?

I wonder how they managed to fix the compression to make 3,686,400 pixels on the BSB to look as good as 7,833,600 pixels on the Aero in terms of resolution/sharpness/clarity. Without any further info: they didn't. Of course the contrast/colors/blacks are much better on the BSB, but he was asking about the compression. Sounds like magic again.

I'm 100% sure that the BSB is a great HMD for many(one of the best out there currently without question). But you're overhyping it. The device has glare and the compression is visible. That you don't notice is, is great for you of course but even all affiliate marketing selling youtubers mentioned these downsides frequently with the most recent release of the HMD so it simply doesn't sound believable what you state.

But yes, many many Crystal owners also don't seem to see chromatic abberation at all and even a smaller amount of Crystal owners see the blue shift. This while it's clearly visible for me and I'm 100% sure that it's also there for the other Crystal users(not all to the same extend, but it's simply a part of the lens design/current barrel distortion profile).

This kind of behaviour was also the case for the Aero: many didn't see the CA+color shift or even the warping distortion or the motion blur. But all these issues were clearly there for everyone at the time that I had the unit and many stated that these issues weren't there at all and that the image was perfect. This was all false of course, so they still kept hyping it. Only a minority of the users at that time acknowledged these issues. But since the Crystal/BSB is released; most Aero users seem to acknowledge the con's of the Aero and many of them bought an Crystal/BSB afterwards and then started to hype these units now and the hype goes on for the new devices.

To extend it even further; a forum member here even stated that there was zero pixelation/shimmering going on with the Reverb G2. That he never saw pixels in the HMD. This is proven by science to be only possible above 60/70PPD. But still the person was claiming this.And a other user said that he never needed OLED or miniLCD because the blacks of the Reverb G2 were perfect. But of course both weren't the case; shimmering is going on in every title because of the low PPD and the blacks aren't perfect at all(FAR from it).

So many users that own a certain device seem to overhype their experience for unknown reasons. You see this effect with many hardware all over the internet. Why this is the case? I don't know, but it's surely the case and I see it over and over again everywhere.

The best solution to this is to always try the HMD for yourself, so that can judge it for yourself to see if you can live with the shortcomings. And if you don't, then you return the device. But with the BSB this is not possible to my knowledge because of the fixed IPD/custom molding. Or do they have a return policy?
There is new toy syndrome. It´s very real. There is a honeymoon phase before you really start to focus on the flaws and want to try something new ;) There is hype and dump but vr headsets is like headphones. There is always compromises made.
Never and never again Pimax products!

Never judge a company on one exprience. I had a horrible experience with the Varjo Aero, it was my worst experience in tech to date; that bad. But if Varjo solves all the issues with their new product range, then I'm happy to buy Varjo again.

The same story with Pimax. Initially I had an terrible experience with their lenses and I had issues with the cable. If it stayed that bad, then I surely would have returned the product. But they solved all the issues within a reasonable (to me) timeframe. And now I'm a very happy Pimax user. They also gave me great support with every issue.

So I agree with @drvrn. All innovation is great at VR and competition creates innovation. As simple as that. So more brands on the market is great for us even if you don't like the brand for emotional reasons.
I am judging them based on months and months of combatting. They kind of won with the stalling process I kind of gave up my rights as a human being but after a full year a community manager actually contacted me and realised they where assholes... I had photo proof as the artifacts was obvious when running at 90 hz but there was no talk about sending it back for a replacement or anything just the weirdest conversations with various "tech support" that seem to be instructed to stall stall stall stall. I tried to play along thinking being nice will get you somewhere but no... I then got a 120 hz option which worked but tha headset had horrible blue tint, no colours and 3D was also kind of not there. If it was to much distortions or what caused it don´t know. I thought 3D would get better with larger fov but no.

Thing is also I preordered it very early on and I got cold feet hearing of similar stories but it was they didn´t understand what refund means. Just totally ignored any requests I made.

Pimax software then was absolute hell to get going but I did manage a voodoo ritual so I could get my pimax going and it was stable once running. Then hunting for base stations I did find a used 8k+ I. It had been damaged by sun burning the lenses. Not pimax fault at all but that I just couldn´t get to connect to steamvr while working just fine in pitools so I still don´t trust their drivers...

But yes good they exist I suppose and I am so happy I don´t have to buy them :)
 
So far none of my reactions have changed much over the time I have owned my headsets.

My experience has been:

Oculus Rift CV1 (used 18m) - Wow! this is VR! ( from day one ) Still think this was a good start.
Valve Index - (used 4y) Wow! this is better VR! ( from day one ) Still think this was a great headset!
Reverb G2 - (used 1m) Whoops! ( Zero honeymoon period, dumped it a month later)
Varjo Aero (used 10m) - Interesting, and it will hold me, but I was still waiting for something I wanted more. I only felt like it was my best option at the time, but I never liked it as much as I liked the Index.
Bigscreen Beyond - Wow! this is better VR! ( I'm expecting this to hold me for 2+ years )

Maybe my feelings will change over time, but historically I knew if a headset was going to keep me happy pretty quickly.

I also nailed the fact that the Light House Tracking would be where the vast majority of enthusiast headset would be for years to come. I'm on my 3rd Lighthouse headset and while I'm not waiting for it the Somnium VR1 is coming soon, so this trend is continuing.

So my gut tells me that the Beyond is going to keep me happy for a long time.

If it makes some of you feel better to think that I'm in a honeymoon phase that I've not experienced before with any of my other headsets, so be it.
 
Last edited:
What i learned from Bradleys latest couple of video's is that he mentioned the quest 3 a couple of times and how good the lenses are.

Like RC heliguy i have also tried a lot of headsets

- Oculus Rift ( the wow factor of VR )
- Valve Index ( so much better than the Oculus Rift)
- HP Reverb 1 ( got this at the same time as the Valve index and sold it the next day )
- Vive Pro 2 ( send this back after 1 day, letterbox fov and uncomfortable )
- HP Reverb 2 ( send it back after 2 days, could not handle the small sweetspot
- Varjo Aero ( motion blur, barrel distortion, send it back the next day )
- Quest 3 ( my current pcvr headset )

The Quest 3 was the first headset since the valve index that i actually wanted to keep.
Even though the resolution could be higher, it's edge to edge clarity.

Inside out tracking works soo much better then i expected for simracing with motion.
So good that if there comes a Quest 4 with these lenses and higher res panels with eye tracking, i would forget about wanting an Index 2.
 

Latest News

Do you prefer licensed hardware?

  • Yes for me it is vital

  • Yes, but only if it's a manufacturer I like

  • Yes, but only if the price is right

  • No, a generic wheel is fine

  • No, I would be ok with a replica


Results are only viewable after voting.
Back
Top