Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

Crash of what, are you driving with hand controllers?

Nope. I was staying on topic.

 

[ltnordb]

So I've got even lighting around my sim rig, I've turned down the monitor brightness a bit and I have a few strategically placed pictures and a few plus signs made out of black tape on the white walls to give the cameras of my G2 something to lock on to.

Usually I just reset the vr position once when I load up the game and it stays locked for the rest of the session (up to 2 hours, after that vr starts to get hot and uncomfortable for me).

Its very rare that I have tracking issues, it's happened once in the two years I've had the headset that the vr shifted 90 degrees mid race causing me to crash out (and I suspect that was a steam vr issue, things have been more stable in general after going to openxr). A more common thing is a slight drift when you load into the game, and that is fixed by going to wmr settings and clearing the environment data and then restarting the game. A minor annoyance that I can live with.

Having to hit the vr reset button every six laps would drive me insane, something is not right with that setup (imho).

 

[RCHeliguy]

I have a few strategically placed pictures and a few plus signs made out of black tape on the white walls to give the cameras of my G2 something to lock on to.

Makes sense and seems like a logical step to help with tracking.

My wife made me paint over my Chromakey green wall when we got married, so I'm betting she wouldn't be a fan of me doing that in our media room. But I'm sure some kind of creative solution with some structure might help.

 

[metalnwood]

So I've got even lighting around my sim rig, I've turned down the monitor brightness a bit and I have a few strategically placed pictures and a few plus signs made out of black tape on the white walls to give the cameras of my G2 something to lock on to.

Usually I just reset the vr position once when I load up the game and it stays locked for the rest of the session (up to 2 hours, after that vr starts to get hot and uncomfortable for me).

Its very rare that I have tracking issues, it's happened once in the two years I've had the headset that the vr shifted 90 degrees mid race causing me to crash out (and I suspect that was a steam vr issue, things have been more stable in general after going to openxr). A more common thing is a slight drift when you load into the game, and that is fixed by going to wmr settings and clearing the environment data and then restarting the game. A minor annoyance that I can live with.

Having to hit the vr reset button every six laps would drive me insane, something is not right with that setup (imho).

I am pretty much the same, its not that I have never had to reset the environment, sometimes I do. I cant tell you if it was last month, or the month before but time to time I have.

I also never have to reset during a race for drift, that would also be unacceptable if it had to be done constantly for drift. I do as a habit/routine hop in a new session and center things with centervr/view sim button.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Here we go again an open box gush about something new.

Sounds like excellent resolution, acceptable FOV, micro OLED's with excellent blacks in a 200gram form factor, but currently only 60fps. Currently has a tack on for tracking that wasn't acceptable, but will have a SteamVR support as an option and a direct PC tether available.

I love the size! Given the FOV, I hope that is an indicator of things to come.

Edit: Their kickstarter is 2 years old and many have complained that nothing has been delivered to their backers yet.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So I've read estimates that effectively involving pulling something out of a dark place saying that the Index replacement will likely be announced this Sept/Oct.

If true, that's an awfully long time...

 

[RCHeliguy]

 

[RCHeliguy]

In another video, he explained how the G2 was about half as bad as the Pimax in terms of having a very poor depth perception which is separate from binocular overlap. I'm betting that ties into the issue with the current Crystal. The way Pimax has the lenses angled makes it hard not to play games with depth perception to wrap the images with angled lenses.

OTOH pancake lenses that are flat in front of you can be clear edge to edge and have excellent depth perception.

Interestingly is that the Oculus headsets and Index have excellent depth perception and the Aero is very close to them. This impacts fatigue when wearing the headsets for longer periods of time and how believable things are. And I think this is part of the issue I had with the G2 which also tells me I will likely not be comfortable in the Crystal either since Pimax distorts this even worse.

So I'm back to waiting for the next Index or possibly considering an Aero if I just can't wait.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Also very interesting. This guy is pretty informative.

 

[gamma123152]

Here we go again an open box gush about something new.

Sounds like excellent resolution, acceptable FOV, micro OLED's with excellent blacks in a 200gram form factor, but currently only 60fps. Currently has a tack on for tracking that wasn't acceptable, but will have a SteamVR support as an option and a direct PC tether available.

I love the size! Given the FOV, I hope that is an indicator of things to come.

Edit: Their kickstarter is 2 years old and many have complained that nothing has been delivered to their backers yet.

The Arpara is flawed because it only works in night races/night flights etc. it's simply not bright enough. MRTV should have reported this in the first video but they didn't for whatever reason. In a later video you can see the comparison to the G2. The guys behind Arpara probably realized that releasing their product with this massive flaw probably didn't make sense and they probably tried to fix it but couldn't, so they came up with all kinds of excuses to deliver the headset to their backers. I believe that Arpara gave up because of this.

 

[R8pilot]

I've been a VR skeptic due to what I've felt to be inadequate visual quality and other problems. But after upgrading to a 3080 and increasing some settings, I find my G2 to be a better experience.

Driving in VR is way more immersive! I still use the flat panel more since there's a lot of fussing about when using VR, but it is growing on me. And I might finally finish Alyx, even.

There's still a ton of progress still to be made in the technology, as well as fussing, fatigue and software bugs to deal with, but I can finally see real potential (and a lighter wallet, soon enough).

 

[RCHeliguy]

but I can finally see real potential (and a lighter wallet, soon enough).

I'm doing my best to be quiet as a church mouse right now.

 

[Cooknn]

By any chance is this when you grab your headset possibly covering the sensors with your hands?

Just found this. My tracking issue is partly me and also my Direct Drive wheel causing interference. There's a solution.

Problem: Varjo Aero tracking is lost or disrupted when putting a hand near the side of the headset​

Solution: This is caused by EMI. Direct Drive wheels and motion systems are well known to create EMI issues.​

• First try unplugging any motors that are in the same room as the headset then test to confirm EMI as the problem
• Purchase some "chokes" (aka cable ferrites) to put on the cable of the headset and also on the cable(s) of the offending motor(s)
  • Here are some "chokes" that have worked successfully for others:
    • https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ferrite-sleeves/4669164
    • https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fair-rite-products-corp/0431177081/8594003
  • Be sure to loop the cable through the "choke" 3-4 times - see picture:

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm thinking back to the EMI issues that people were experiencing a while back interfering with VR, and that makes complete sense. Many SFX 100 / PT Actuator motion system owners had EMI issues that required lots of ferrite cores.

There have been guidelines since then to help reduce these EMI issues and I had also forgotten that the same issues were sometimes caused by direct drive steering systems.

There was a lot of talk about these issues 3-5 years ago, but I just hadn't heard anything about this in a while.

If you had mentioned this problem a few years back someone probably would have immediately mentioned ferrite cores.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Edit: Their kickstarter is 2 years old and many have complained that nothing has been delivered to their backers yet.

Sorry about the Arpara 5K because from the video review of one of the (surposedly) few prototypes it looks like it could have been a winner.
Lovely compact size and resolution

 

[RCHeliguy]

Sorry about the Arpara 5K because from the video review of one of the (surposedly) few prototypes it looks like it could have been a winner.
Lovely compact size and resolution

Even if it never comes to be, I think it shows where things can go.

We don't have a single end game VR headset available today, so all we can do is look at things that are indicators of what might happen in the future.

So some day maybe we will see the specs of the Crystal in the form factor of the Arpara and some company will actually be able to deliver it

Current headsets are heavy and bulky with some much worse than others. Looks like there is a chance for something better. Some day.

 

[gamma123152]

Sorry about the Arpara 5K because from the video review of one of the (surposedly) few prototypes it looks like it could have been a winner.
Lovely compact size and resolution

This is the video that I talked about in my previous post. On paper the Arpara looked like a winner indeed and after the FIRST video of MRTV I almost funded the kickstarter because of it. But after seeing the comparison with the G2 in daylight/lighter game situations(see above video) I think that it's better to forget that Arpara will ever be something.

Bulky or not bulky, my next try is the Crystal. I'm happy with my G2 but it's not even close to an endgame headset, I don't think that the Crystal will be "endgame forever" but I think that the Crystal is endgame for my 4090, this until a new GPU and HMD arrives that can handle more. I never have issues with the weight/size of the G2, and from what I've heared the comfort of the Crystal is okay, better than the previous Pimax HMD's, so I think/hope that I can live with that.

When the 5090/6090 is available I will probably buy a larger FoV HMD which by then probably will be available...

 

[RCHeliguy]

Well Crap!

I just heard back from a guy who got the Quest Pro and he is having tracking issues with it on his motion rig. I was really hoping Meta would be bulletproof on this especially with their $1500 professional headset.

This guy is back to his Index.

If the 800lb Gorilla that is Meta couldn't make tracking work reliably on his motion rig, I don't know what hope to give any of the others. I certainly can't imagine Pimax will do a better job than Meta. He also tried a G2 and had tracking issues with it as well.

He also had the Aero for a while and had what he now assumes were EMI issues like Cooknn was experiencing.

Interesting stuff. It does mean that the Aero is more sensitive to EMI than the Index since the Index works fine on his motion rig.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just found this. My tracking issue is partly me and also my Direct Drive wheel causing interference. There's a solution.

• https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fair-rite-products-corp/0431177081/8594003

Thanks for the link!
Let us know if it takes care of your issue.

 

[mechsicko]

Well Crap!

I just heard back from a guy who got the Quest Pro and he is having tracking issues with it on his motion rig. I was really hoping Meta would be bulletproof on this especially with their $1500 professional headset.

This guy is back to his Index.

If the 800lb Gorilla that is Meta couldn't make tracking work reliably on his motion rig, I don't know what hope to give any of the others. I certainly can't imagine Pimax will do a better job than Meta. He also tried a G2 and had tracking issues with it as well.

He also had the Aero for a while and had what he now assumes were EMI issues like Cooknn was experiencing.

Interesting stuff. It does mean that the Aero is more sensitive to EMI than the Index since the Index works fine on his motion rig.

I wonder if adding some kind of array of IR LED's that are mounted to the rig (think inside out TrackIR) to give the hmd really strong points to track against in a darkened room if the headset would really track relative to the array or if its gyros/accelerometers are still adding to the confusion. If not, I wonder if it would be possible for a software layer to manually weight optical vs gyro/accel data in the sensor fusion would get it there.