Is VR dead?

[Spinelli]

Hi
Here in Israel every thing is very expensive. The 4090 alone costs between 2500-2800$.

Ohh OK. $4500 doesn't seem too bad then.

I'm not trying to be a downer but is there any chance you can return it and wait a bit to get an AMD 7x00x3D CPU? Early gaming benchmarks have them destroying 13900Ks already and the KS will barely be faster than the K (probably 2 - 5 % in non GPU-bottlenecked games).

Also, did you end up going with that 5xxx MHz RAM? If you're going all-out on performance, I highly suggest going at least mid-6000 MHz DDR5 if not 7200 or so. You won't gain much, if any, gaming performance using DDR5 over a good DDR4 dual-rank B-Die kit unless your DDR5 is at least in the mid-to-upper 6000 MHz range.

I think I saw some of your youtube videos. You have the 38" LG 3840x1600 24:10 monitor, yes? I just got rid of my Samsung Odyssey G7 for that same LG. Pretty nice, huh?

And on top of Elon doing his best to destroy the brand name,...

Funny how ever since Tesla took over Twitter and started releasing "The Twitter Files" - exposing a bunch of recent and on-going American government / intel agency (CIA, NSA, FBI, etc.), and corporate corruption, censorship, and lies - that he's suddenly been on the receiving end of an accelerating amount of slander and tarnishing.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Tesla was at the bottom of reliability charts year after year, well before talks about that stupid acquisition even started.
Hope it doesn't ruin Musk completely, he already lost 200bln last year, actually made it to the Guinness record book for the biggest loss in history.

Guess VR is dead after all as there is nothing VR related in this thread anymore.

 

[R8pilot]

VR content, you say?

Very strange: Although I don't think my G2 is good enough (washed-out, blurry, bla bla bla), recently I've been preferring to use it anyway. How is this happening!? What's wrong with me!?

But one irritation: The head-phones briefly cut out randomly from time to time, and a little text appears saying 50% volume then 100% and back during the cutouts (or the other way around, not sure), then vanishes once the cut-out is over. I don't think it's a hardware problem. It's very irritating and ruins immersion. Any ideas?

 

[cnhoff]

I recently picked up a ‘23 Audi Q4 E-Tron. When I unplug it in the morning it says 300+ miles. More like 265 in reality. Love it. More money than a Kia, but very competitive with most Tesla’s.

The wife and I are going solar at the house which got me moving in the EV direction. It’s crazy to drive by all the gas stations I used to frequent.

Friend of mine has one and was taking his family for the summer vacation all the way down from Munich to Italy this year without any issues. Those charging times are really acceptable and are basically not noticeable with the usual toilet and coffee breaks on those trips.

 

[gamma123152]

Guess VR is dead after all as there is nothing VR related in this thread anymore.

So this racedepartment thread is leading for the whole industry? And the last few pages are full with VR discussions, it's one the most alive threads here on RD for a reason. If it was dead, then the thread was dead.

I think so the opposite is true. Because 2023 brings a lot to VR: PSVR2, Apple VR, Meganex, Pimax Crystal, Meta quest 3, new HTC, probably even more HMD's since the year just started (Valve hmd, new Samsung hmd) etc. way WAY more than previous years that's for sure.

The 4090 also brought a new major boost to already existing VR titles; for me sim racing in VR finally runs as I always wanted it to run. Maybe to you it's dead but for me VR and for the rest of the world VR is more alive then it ever was. Apple, Meta, Sony are not small companies and they invest massively in VR this year. Probably more money is invested these days in VR then ever before.

And the recent Pimax Crystal showed us what the future brings regarding VR image quality, most enthusiasts waited exactly for this moment, for that kind of image quality.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think the Varjo VR-3 is the headset that has showed us the future.

When multiple VR enthusisasts say they had trouble discerning the difference between what they saw and reality..

When pass through video is good enough to believably see your hands and arms interacting in a virtual environment, that's the future.

Combine that resolution with the distortion free FOV of the XTAL and that's the future.

 

[gamma123152]

I think the Varjo VR-3 is the headset that has showed us the future.

When multiple VR enthusisasts say they had trouble discerning the difference between what they saw and reality..

When pass through video is good enough to believably see your hands and arms interacting in a virtual environment, that's the future.

True when you talk about mixed reality. Varjo is indeed also a major VR brand, I'm sure that they are working on new headsets in 2023, but I expect them to release them no earlier then 24. Subjectively I personally don't care about mixed reality. I prefer VR without camera passthrough, that's all that I'm interested in for sim racing. And the Pimax Crystal is simply way better then the Aero for that purpose. That's at least what I understood from people that tried both.

I had a lot of issues with the Aero which caused me to return it, all these issues are not in the Crystal from what I've read/seen about the Crystal. Sadly enough I cannot pre order the Crystal because I'm from the EU. At EU shops you get 2 years warranty and a 14 days return period. At pimax com you get 1 year and terrible after sales. So I probably won't get to see the Crystal before the end of the year... Because until then I'm still unsure if it's all true, if the Crystal really what they say it is..

 

[blekenbleu]

Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman claims that “a small number of high-profile software developers” have received prototype Apple mixed-reality headsets for testing.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/news...d-reality-headset-apple-2023-devices-lcnfzkc7

If it was dead, then the thread was dead.

Traditionally, dead horses are among those most beaten.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Forgetting Mixed reality, the VR-3 has 70ppd in the center for a retina display that blends seamlessly with the rest of the display creating the hardware equivalent of Fixed Fovated Rendering. Pretty slick stuff.

Meanswhile the XTAL has the best wide field of view optics of any VR headset.

Both of these companies are doing work with high end military and commercial applications. They are innovating. They show the future that will trickle down

Valve will likely introduce another solid reliable comfortable headset that will be a reasonable compromise of current technology in a reliable package for PC VR.

As just mentioned Apple is joining the fray as well, and they tend not to do anything half way.

META will always have a seat at the big boy table along with Sony and PSVR.

Surprisingly the red headed step child seems to be embracing that moniker based on their poor marketing materials. I seriously doubt they will get a footnote in terms of the future of VR.

 

[blekenbleu]

the future that will trickle down

I sincerely expect this XR bubble to burst, considering the M$ WMR debacle,
but tech firms with huge $$$ lack more compelling fantasies at the moment.
This from an irredeemable pessimist,
also doubting a bright future for current EV technology, particularly in the U.S.,
given long travel times and yahoo proclivity for vandalizing and/or blocking (ICEing) charging stations with their pickup trucks.

 

[blekenbleu]

Meta to Stop Supporting Original Quest VR Headset AFTER 2024

 

[blekenbleu]

Canon announces VR filmmaking system
In a long CES presentation, Canon disclosed
virtual reality achievements and products (software and hardware),

emphasizing potential for enhancing moviegoers’ experience.

https://th.canon/en/consumer/virtual-reality-video/news

Canon RF 5.2mm F2.8L DUAL FISHEYE

 

[RCHeliguy]

Nothing is forever. I think what we are seeing is an expected split in the market.

This is exactly what I predicted would happen a few years back. Inside out tracking is primarily being used by the low end of the market and the new enthusiast headsets are generally using some kind of base stations mostly Valve's.

Mass Market:
Oculus has gone firmly into the stand alone mass market with support of a PC rather than reliance on it and Sony's PSVR looks promising and is a part of the tethered mass market.

Both are looking to keep a very large user base of casual users and gamers and they are driving the minimum cost down without relying on powerful and expensive GPU's.

Enthusiast Market:
Meanwhile at the Enthusiast end that requires expensive powerful PC's and GPU's where all the sim drivers and fliers are at least for now, we have:
Varjo, XTAL, Valve, Pico, Pimax, and maybe HTC

HP is dropping out of the VR space and once it is gone, how long will WMR headsets continue to be supported?

The herds are thinning especially at the lower end. The ultra high end tends to support differentiation and lower production numbers because of higher prices which is why there are a few more companies in this space.

 

[RCHeliguy]

also doubting a bright future for current EV technology, particularly in the U.S.,
given long travel times and yahoo proclivity for vandalizing and/or blocking (ICEing) charging stations with their pickup trucks.

At this point BEV's are inevitable for the simple reason that they have 1/10th the moving parts and will be much cheaper to build as soon as the battery technology is more mature.

In 2022 BEV sales doubled in the US from 2.5% to 5% of all auto sales.

However this is a disruptive change. Auto dealerships get over half of their income from service and most of that will go away. Companies like Ford are now selling electric vehicles around their dealers because the dealers were hiding or excessively marking up the electric vehicles.

If we didn't have shortages of Li causing prices to soar 600% in the last year and kneecapping manufacturers trying to product BEV's, there would be many more hitting the road.

Recent advances in Sodium battery technology will dramatically lower battery costs and eliminate the need for a cooling system since they don't have any runaway thermal issues further reducing costs. It also won't require strip mining operations like the US is currently opening up in a couple locations.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just saw the video below about the MeganeX which is a 2560x2560 per eye headset that Bradley wasn't impressed with because of barrel distortion. But it is the first with microOLED 10 bit HDR pancake displays.

Once again an enthusiast $1699 price tag with SteamVR tracking.

So the best compilation might be:

• microOLED 10 bit HDR
• XTAL distortion free optics and FOV
• VR-3 resolution and 200Hz eye tracking.

 

[wajdi]

Ohh OK. $4500 doesn't seem too bad then.

I'm not trying to be a downer but is there any chance you can return it and wait a bit to get an AMD 7x00x3D CPU? Early gaming benchmarks have them destroying 13900Ks already and the KS will barely be faster than the K (probably 2 - 5 % in non GPU-bottlenecked games).

Also, did you end up going with that 5xxx MHz RAM? If you're going all-out on performance, I highly suggest going at least mid-6000 MHz DDR5 if not 7200 or so. You won't gain much, if any, gaming performance using DDR5 over a good DDR4 dual-rank B-Die kit unless your DDR5 is at least in the mid-to-upper 6000 MHz range.

I think I saw some of your youtube videos. You have the 38" LG 3840x1600 24:10 monitor, yes? I just got rid of my Samsung Odyssey G7 for that same LG. Pretty nice, huh?

Funny how ever since Tesla took over Twitter and started releasing "The Twitter Files" - exposing a bunch of recent and on-going American government / intel agency (CIA, NSA, FBI, etc.), and corporate corruption, censorship, and lies - that he's suddenly been on the receiving end of an accelerating amount of slander and tarnishing.

Hi
I really don’t want to wait for the AMD.. I haven’t raced in the last month and I don’t want to wait anymore. Yes, I upgraded the ram to 5600 but I can OC it 6200 easily. Thstnk

 

[metalnwood]

I still don't believe that smaller places are going for lighthouse necessarily because it is the best even though it may give the most precise tracking at the moment.

It is an easy choice because it costs practically nothing to develop, it's tracking for free and customers will sacrifice the negatives to use the enthusiast headsets.

meta etc didn't move to inside out because it was cheape, they did it because they were more user experience driven and knew that is how it has to be done in the future. I haven't rad about apples or if they have said what they are doing but I can bet, being a user experience driven company it will have inside out tracking and lighthouses are not what users want.

 

[RCHeliguy]

meta etc didn't move to inside out because it was cheape, they did it because they were more user experience driven and knew that is how it has to be done in the future. I haven't rad about apples or if they have said what they are doing but I can bet, being a user experience driven company it will have inside out tracking and lighthouses are not what users want.

The biggest reason for inside out tracking in a stand alone headset is that you can just turn it on ANYWHERE and use it. That's another reason they are pushing direct hand tracking. If they can make it so you just carry one thing and simply put it on and then drive it using your hands they have made it even more accessible.

For a PC VR enthusiast system lighthouse tracking is definitely the way to go.
1. You have perfect tracking that can't be thrown off by motion.
2. There are no issues with large flat surfaces.
3. The lighting can be anything you want. Play in the dark if you like.
4. The calibration takes about 10 seconds and is perfect from that point on. No matter how tall a person is, they just put the headset on and everything is normal to them.

And if you look at the cost of these enthusiast headsets, the base station cost is pretty well moot, so why not? It's a set them and forget them situation that works reliably for years without any adjustment, recalibration, clearing of setting, nada, nothing.

You do make an accurate point about expensive niche headsets pretty well needing to go in this direction. The MaganeX headset is a perfect example, they tried inside/out and failed, so they defaulted to SteamVR. Inside/Out tracking is hard. HTC's first attempt bombed. Oculus/Meta is the 800lb gorilla in the room and they have something pretty good that no one else has matched and it still isn't as good as base stations, but it has other strengths making it perfect for stand along headsets. MS tried to do the same thing as Valve with WMR. They licensed Inside/Out tech so companies could jump in easily. Unfortunately it wasn't good enough to be viable for many people.

So here we are.

If I could put my sim rig in my pocket and carry it with me, then I'd care about inside/out tracking, but given my rig never leaves the room with my gaming computer, it seems pretty pointless.

If I wanted a stand alone headset I would get a Meta product, period.

Getting back to Pimax and Valve. Part of me wonders if Pimax saw the early leaks for the next Valve headset and made some bad decisions based on that. Swappable lenses, wireless operation, and stand alone capabilities seems like a serious divergence from their core users and a lot of added complexity to figure out and get right. They DRAMATICALLY increased their potential failure points. Their average users are not room scale players. Their headsets are way too bulky to whip around quickly. Their users sit in flight or sim rigs. I can almost guarantee that they will have a LOT of teething issues with that headset. It will come late and buggy.

 

[metalnwood]

Yes, but like the crossover in EV's that is in this thread, the end goal for technology is not what we have today.

There is only one benefit to lighthouse even though a number were listed and that is it has the most precise tracking, every other point is just a reflection on that.

It will take money and time to get inside out right but it has to be the future for widespread adoption and when it is as good, the only companies not using it will only be using it for costs and they will move over when the only places making lighthouses stop making them.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Inside out tracking already has widespread adoption. That's what Meta did. They made a headset for the masses, millions of them! Mission accomplished.