Things are moving at Codemasters
GRID Autosport GRID Autosport
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
- Start date
There is rubber banding
When you are behind the AI slow down. When you are in front the AI speed up.
Wish there was a way I could turn it off.
I find this to be only half true Chris. Let me explain...
If I set the A.I. too low (or like in a racenet challenge for instance) it's very noticeable, but if I hone my skills first and then get on the track with "very hard" A.I., I don't find this to be the case, because I can never really catch them or outbrake them enough for this "rubber banding" to be noticeable. And then it's very very hard to pass them, but they will push to be your best and alert and your will settle into the appropriate level, and can battle for many laps with the guy in front, just as in real life. I think they are the best A.I. I have seen. But you can't go into the race not being fully prepared.
This is why the F1 A.I. are easily manipulated by slower drivers (like me!). I could block their asses forever. I prefer whatever this "rubber banding" is to A.I. that can be predictable. Once the race settles in, the GRID A.I. become much less of a pack-mentality thing. They become, well, alive...at least to me.
At your skill level I can understand, though, why you could see even the "very hard" A.I. being banded. They do brake early in unison, etc. if I dumb them down. I've always thought these games needed just one more higher level of A.I. for the cream of the crop.
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Actually I've found the post that mentioned it and it wasn't Loore it s the guy from Codies blog. Bit of a pisser either way :/
Thanks for the invite this morning Robert.. unfortunately it was an hour too late for me and I had just stopped to get myself and daughter ready when you signed in. Even thirty minutes earlier would have given me a bit of time to level up but just didn’t quite work out. I hope you found someone to drive with 
This morning was fairly typical though of why this whole process is a problem for me.. I was awake and so got up early to try out what you had suggested with an online lobby but there was virtually no one around and the three lobbies that were there were doing their own thing. I ended up just checking the two cars I have so far bought (Mini only at Level 9) and the Honda (at level 14). Interestingly I noticed that for the Honda I could purchase the initial tuning level… so my suggestion from previously is in there in a very minor form but why not just make that an option in its entirety!! I would happily pay to do that and I’m sure others would too. I also ran another race at Indianapolis GP Circuit and managed to drop another second
I still come back to the point I have made before in reference to your comment about F1.. in F1 you don’t ‘have’ to stick to the default setup because everything is open for you to change out of the box. No messing around having to setup up 1 lap races specifically to get yourself to a level that accommodates that. That’s the difference between the two.. one forces you to play the game a certain way if you want to get the full experience online and the other gives you the freedom to play the game how you want, when you want and without restriction.. I don't think thats too much to ask!!
The thing is Robert that my circumstances don’t always afford me the luxury of for instance running an hour straight in the game, it’s often broken up and the game is left paused for a while so running with someone else online is not really an option during those sessions as it would be unfair to expect them to wait for me while I am busy on something else for 10-15 minutes before returning to the session. When I was playing the game on Tuesday I had intended to just jump on for 15 minutes to test something out before getting into a session of F1 but I then got engrossed in the game because I was so enjoying the racing and learning the track we are due to be racing at on Monday. To be honest running lap after lap simply to level up would not give the same enjoyment and I am not good at these 1 lap wonders, it takes me time to get into a race (hence why I rarely qualify well in F1) so the time taken to level up would probably be more for me than you suggest. I think you likened it once before to going to work to earn your money to get the things you want.. (something like that anyway lol) well I don’t know about you but I dislike going to work, it’s not something I do for the love of it and when I buy a game I expect to be able to play it ‘fully’ out of the box. Of course there also the little matter of nobody else being around while I was on so just grabbing a friend was not as simple as it sounds although I understand that’s the quickest way to do it under different circumstances.
Looking at our little series as an example we have 7 different categories so that’s seven cars we are required to buy and tune to get the best out of them. That entails somewhere between 4-7 hours to get them each up to full tuning level!! I know level 16 gives you basic tuning but it is very basic and not enough to give the handling changes that I have found so nice in my practice session so far. 4-7 hours!!! On average I currently manage no more than 2 to 3 hours a week in the game (I haven’t even attempted a challenge yet this week so that I could spend some time on next week’s circuit) so I would lose a huge chunk of my game time just running around trying to level the car up and would have less time to actually enjoy the parts of the game that are the most impressive!! Then of course there’s the fact that at some point you have to do it all over again when your car reaches its sell by date and is no longer at peak performance!! The more I think of it the more annoyed I get at such lopsided design decision… how much time do Codies think we have to play these games!!
I bought this game because it looked like it was going to be a really fun racer and in it’s offline mode that’s exactly what it has proved to be but the online side of the game is becoming less and less appealing to me the more I find how much the tuning is necessary to get the best from it. I was racing a bit blind initially just running un-tuned cars so that I could get used to them knowing I was unlikely to get a tuned car for our series but now I have experimented a bit I can see how much the tuning helps the handling of the car. As you’ve said before we can each get it to handle just how ‘we’ like it and that’s fantastic but if you can’t do that the prospect is that you run around at a significant disadvantage (1-3 seconds a lap is a big difference in my book) and in a car that is less suited to your own particular style. The default car although still fun in its own right is very spongy in comparison and as a result loses some of its appeal.
Anyway, I’ll get off my soapbox now I know you’ll take my comments in good faith Robert, I just had to re-iterate that although the method you have outlined does indeed make achieving the levels required more accessible it by no means makes them easy unless you have the time available to commit to those sessions and just as importantly the time available that also coincides with others of a like mind also being available to join you. I know you have offered the latter and I will take you up on it as soon as we are in sync with our times in the game
This morning was fairly typical though of why this whole process is a problem for me.. I was awake and so got up early to try out what you had suggested with an online lobby but there was virtually no one around and the three lobbies that were there were doing their own thing. I ended up just checking the two cars I have so far bought (Mini only at Level 9) and the Honda (at level 14). Interestingly I noticed that for the Honda I could purchase the initial tuning level… so my suggestion from previously is in there in a very minor form but why not just make that an option in its entirety!! I would happily pay to do that and I’m sure others would too. I also ran another race at Indianapolis GP Circuit and managed to drop another second
I still come back to the point I have made before in reference to your comment about F1.. in F1 you don’t ‘have’ to stick to the default setup because everything is open for you to change out of the box. No messing around having to setup up 1 lap races specifically to get yourself to a level that accommodates that. That’s the difference between the two.. one forces you to play the game a certain way if you want to get the full experience online and the other gives you the freedom to play the game how you want, when you want and without restriction.. I don't think thats too much to ask!!
The thing is Robert that my circumstances don’t always afford me the luxury of for instance running an hour straight in the game, it’s often broken up and the game is left paused for a while so running with someone else online is not really an option during those sessions as it would be unfair to expect them to wait for me while I am busy on something else for 10-15 minutes before returning to the session. When I was playing the game on Tuesday I had intended to just jump on for 15 minutes to test something out before getting into a session of F1 but I then got engrossed in the game because I was so enjoying the racing and learning the track we are due to be racing at on Monday. To be honest running lap after lap simply to level up would not give the same enjoyment and I am not good at these 1 lap wonders, it takes me time to get into a race (hence why I rarely qualify well in F1) so the time taken to level up would probably be more for me than you suggest. I think you likened it once before to going to work to earn your money to get the things you want.. (something like that anyway lol) well I don’t know about you but I dislike going to work, it’s not something I do for the love of it and when I buy a game I expect to be able to play it ‘fully’ out of the box. Of course there also the little matter of nobody else being around while I was on so just grabbing a friend was not as simple as it sounds although I understand that’s the quickest way to do it under different circumstances.
Looking at our little series as an example we have 7 different categories so that’s seven cars we are required to buy and tune to get the best out of them. That entails somewhere between 4-7 hours to get them each up to full tuning level!! I know level 16 gives you basic tuning but it is very basic and not enough to give the handling changes that I have found so nice in my practice session so far. 4-7 hours!!! On average I currently manage no more than 2 to 3 hours a week in the game (I haven’t even attempted a challenge yet this week so that I could spend some time on next week’s circuit) so I would lose a huge chunk of my game time just running around trying to level the car up and would have less time to actually enjoy the parts of the game that are the most impressive!! Then of course there’s the fact that at some point you have to do it all over again when your car reaches its sell by date and is no longer at peak performance!! The more I think of it the more annoyed I get at such lopsided design decision… how much time do Codies think we have to play these games!!
I bought this game because it looked like it was going to be a really fun racer and in it’s offline mode that’s exactly what it has proved to be but the online side of the game is becoming less and less appealing to me the more I find how much the tuning is necessary to get the best from it. I was racing a bit blind initially just running un-tuned cars so that I could get used to them knowing I was unlikely to get a tuned car for our series but now I have experimented a bit I can see how much the tuning helps the handling of the car. As you’ve said before we can each get it to handle just how ‘we’ like it and that’s fantastic but if you can’t do that the prospect is that you run around at a significant disadvantage (1-3 seconds a lap is a big difference in my book) and in a car that is less suited to your own particular style. The default car although still fun in its own right is very spongy in comparison and as a result loses some of its appeal.
Anyway, I’ll get off my soapbox now
I know you’ll take my comments in good faith Robert, I just had to re-iterate that although the method you have outlined does indeed make achieving the levels required more accessible it by no means makes them easy unless you have the time available to commit to those sessions and just as importantly the time available that also coincides with others of a like mind also being available to join you. I know you have offered the latter and I will take you up on it as soon as we are in sync with our times in the game
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On that note I am nipping home at lunchtime so can have a quick half-hour on the game if anyone is around to have a bash at some of these one lappers at Indianapolis to help level up my Mini.
No takers so I had a go at a couple of the challenges.. Sepang and Circuit of the Americas... very enjoyable. I hope F1 2014 has taken a leaf out of their book and done something like this too
bah. you found another second of time @Peter Hooper ?!?!?!feck me. I had a few (6 or 7) 3 lap races with the AI last night (again set to very hard) and my fastest was a 1:37.0 HOWEVER. it was only faster than my previous because of the draft effect.(which seems a little exaggerated in these slow minis)
I changed the setup each race trying to "find the magic" but nothing was better.... and also nothing was much slower. The way the car handled changed but the time was always within a second of my best.
Also, Fastest AI lap time was consistently 1:36.8. there were 2 AI that i could never catch and the rest of them always fell behind. So, once again, last night i drove around the circuit by myself most of the time.
Still have no idea how to find more speed. My driving style has never been aggressive. It's always been about finding the flow and driving the racing line. I never enjoy "chucking" the car around as it makes me feel out of control. It doesn't help that there is zero data to look at either.
I'm growing to like the way the game feels i guess, but there is still no improvement in speed. And there is no fun racing with the AI either.
I changed the setup each race trying to "find the magic" but nothing was better.... and also nothing was much slower. The way the car handled changed but the time was always within a second of my best.
Also, Fastest AI lap time was consistently 1:36.8. there were 2 AI that i could never catch and the rest of them always fell behind. So, once again, last night i drove around the circuit by myself most of the time.
Still have no idea how to find more speed. My driving style has never been aggressive. It's always been about finding the flow and driving the racing line. I never enjoy "chucking" the car around as it makes me feel out of control. It doesn't help that there is zero data to look at either.
I'm growing to like the way the game feels i guess, but there is still no improvement in speed. And there is no fun racing with the AI either.
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I assume this is for PC only? Not consoles? Thanks.
Sorry @Karl Fuss, but I’m sure that you will find the speed with a bit more time. I know exactly what you mean about the aggressiveness factor and I do think that is another reason you are having some problems. Like you I have always liked to think of myself as a fairly smooth driver relying on consistency rather than outright pace. These cars do need a certain level of aggression though and I have been far more aggressive getting into and around the corners but without losing the consistency... It’s still all about rhythm but just in a slightly different way. I am on the brakes less in this game too allowing the car to carry more speed into the corners, especially those in that twisty section at the start of the lap. I am sure that could be costing you several seconds of time right here. Absolutely agree that the lack of data is a pain so I have just used a couple of key points on the circuit and check my times through those to see how I am doing. Frustrating not having the lap times to look at afterwards though so you can compare more thoroughly. It was released as a pure racer though rather than a game for the stats nuts like us and I am just adjusting to that as best I can.
Your findings go against this rubber banding really as if that was in effect I would expect the leading AI to drop back into your grasp and those behind to be pushing you more. But the fact that you are racing ‘Very Hard’ AI who are running at 1:36/7 while I am running ‘Hard’ AI and they are running at 1:32/3 kind of then does make it seem as though they are racing to your pace.. I’m confused lol. I finished 2nd and 3rd in my races with the AI in front only just ahead while the AI behind were ready to pounce if I made a mistake and even if I didn’t they were not shy of poking their nose in just to see if they could squeeze through.. I just find them excellent. Just trying to think whether there is another setting that maybe needs changing but can’t remember them off the top of my head.
Did you try stiffer suspension? I went that way and definitely found it much nicer to drive and also had the brakes more to the front. Here’s is what I used this morning:-
Brakes -30 Diff +50 Downforce -50 Gears +30 Front Suspension +40 Rear Suspension +40
Your findings go against this rubber banding really as if that was in effect I would expect the leading AI to drop back into your grasp and those behind to be pushing you more. But the fact that you are racing ‘Very Hard’ AI who are running at 1:36/7 while I am running ‘Hard’ AI and they are running at 1:32/3 kind of then does make it seem as though they are racing to your pace.. I’m confused lol. I finished 2nd and 3rd in my races with the AI in front only just ahead while the AI behind were ready to pounce if I made a mistake and even if I didn’t they were not shy of poking their nose in just to see if they could squeeze through.. I just find them excellent. Just trying to think whether there is another setting that maybe needs changing but can’t remember them off the top of my head.
Did you try stiffer suspension? I went that way and definitely found it much nicer to drive and also had the brakes more to the front. Here’s is what I used this morning:-
Brakes -30 Diff +50 Downforce -50 Gears +30 Front Suspension +40 Rear Suspension +40
I'll try the Hard AI tonight and see what happens i guess. I can't explain their pace as rubber banding (which is the term Chris used) but more like a scale that adjusts to my pace. (Although if that were completely true then why am i driving around by myself in 3rd or 4th all the time?)
It makes me wonder if we are even playing the same game.... am i missing a patch? No, because i can play online.
The only thing i haven't done is use the download code that came with the game. I'm hesitant to use it because i still am not convinced i'll keep the game. I don't even know what those extra things are in the DL but i highly doubt it would be effecting my game.....maybe?
I don't know. Did you guys download the extra stuff?
It makes me wonder if we are even playing the same game.... am i missing a patch? No, because i can play online.
The only thing i haven't done is use the download code that came with the game. I'm hesitant to use it because i still am not convinced i'll keep the game. I don't even know what those extra things are in the DL but i highly doubt it would be effecting my game.....maybe?
I don't know. Did you guys download the extra stuff?
That’s the thing I am confused about Karl, you seem to be caught in no man’s land there and that’s not something that I have experienced so far but maybe that’s because I am racing a different level AI which are better matched to my pace. I’ll try ‘Very Hard’ next time I get on track.
The only download I got was as a result of buying the Black Edition that gave some extra cars or something but there are no downloads that I am aware of that would affect the game in terms of your own or AI performance.
Once we get the patch it should be much easier to compare how we are driving and lines taken through corners, etc. as the Time Trial mode is meant to be included. If I can I’ll post a lap of mine running in the 1:32’s and you can look at it and maybe see something that can help
The only download I got was as a result of buying the Black Edition that gave some extra cars or something but there are no downloads that I am aware of that would affect the game in terms of your own or AI performance.
Once we get the patch it should be much easier to compare how we are driving and lines taken through corners, etc. as the Time Trial mode is meant to be included. If I can I’ll post a lap of mine running in the 1:32’s and you can look at it and maybe see something that can help
Ya, the black edition... that's what i have. didn't use that code.That’s the thing I am confused about Karl, you seem to be caught in no man’s land there and that’s not something that I have experienced so far but maybe that’s because I am racing a different level AI which are better matched to my pace. I’ll try ‘Very Hard’ next time I get on track.
The only download I got was as a result of buying the Black Edition that gave some extra cars or something but there are no downloads that I am aware of that would affect the game in terms of your own or AI performance.
Once we get the patch it should be much easier to compare how we are driving and lines taken through corners, etc. as the Time Trial mode is meant to be included. If I can I’ll post a lap of mine running in the 1:32’s and you can look at it and maybe see something that can help
also noticed that gap times are provided in custom cup mode... but they only display for a second or two then disappear..... maybe i'm feckin slow, but honestly how is that enough time to look at them?!?!?!
You know you can also press your up D-pad button to get info on the gap to the car ahead and down button to get damage status? Not available online though
There's two other bits of info you can get.. team mate progress and something else but I can;t remember what off the top of my head. I don't use those though unfortunately as I have the left and right button mapped for glance left and right.
EDIT: Gaps to other cars, damage status, team mate status and rival status.
EDIT: Gaps to other cars, damage status, team mate status and rival status.
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last night i was using the left and right to change my TMs aggressiveness. it did fcuk all. when i made him run aggressive he always wound up at the back within a few turns. But i think i'm gonna re-map them like you... although i'll just be looking left and right to see no one.... haha
I have found so far that the team mate is pretty poor and rarely contributes much to the points.. bit like F1 for me lately
Finding a nice wheel / pedal setting is really important in this game, more so than F1 I would say. The increased deadzone did seem to help especially in the open wheelers.
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