Cars Ford Spec Racer for Assetto Corsa 2.1

[smeisinger]

I feel it strange to apdapt a real world car, where real world physic data are available to an, in my eyes, not very sophisticated other racing simulation (iRacing).
Despite I personally never drove iRacing by myself, it is widely known that iRacing is not very well reproducing the real world.

iRacing has an estimated revenue of 16 million per year. They build all their cars using the real cars. Of course they have more data and especially more detailed data than just an AC modder.

And you should watch empty box' video "Perception and Feel - 'Sim' is a Lie." before you try talking about "realism" again (especially when you didn't even try the sim you think isn't "real").

Just to be safe: I'm not saying iRacing is the definitve sim. There is no such thing and there most likely won't be in the next 50 years.

 

[bsmooth]

One thing I have driven is Formula Vees, also an entry level car. I also have talked to people who have driven Formula Fords. All agree that you do have to drive them a certain way. I would have to agree that the Skippy is similar.
The skippy drives correctly, at least pretty darn close, and that IS whats important. It gives the seat of the pants "feel" without actually having it, which you can't really have in a sim anyways.
The Skippy is a bit on the edge, just watch the Youtube videos you'll see what I mean. I do think the Spec racer isn't quite there yet, but its very close.
Nothing is perfect, but in this case there plenty good enough.

 

[Kyuubeey]

iRacing has an estimated revenue of 16 million per year. They build all their cars using the real cars. Of course they have more data and especially more detailed data than just an AC modder.

And you should watch empty box' video "Perception and Feel - 'Sim' is a Lie." before you try talking about "realism" again (especially when you didn't even try the sim you think isn't "real").

Just to be safe: I'm not saying iRacing is the definitve sim. There is no such thing and there most likely won't be in the next 50 years.

Kunos also has a decent budget and access to some of the cars they worked on, and almost nothing in AC is really close at all. 'Just AC modders' generally have done a better job at their respective cars.

Those kind of things like working with real drivers or real cars (Especially if you don't log any data out of them, like Kunos didn't seem to do so much for AC) almost don't matter if A: There's some serious underlying issue in the engine, and/or B: The devs making the car(s) don't do a good job for whatever reason.

I for one believe 'just an AC modder' could in a reasonable timeframe of let's say a week or so produce an SRF as good, or better than anything out there right now. There's so much data; much more so than for the Skippy, and the underlying simulation is largely sound, especially if using CSP physics. I could do it, and I can point fingers at a variety of people who could do it.

But hey, that's just my view from almost a decade of dev experience in various sims. Not like it matters to anyone, apparently.

One thing I have driven is Formula Vees, also an entry level car. I also have talked to people who have driven Formula Fords. All agree that you do have to drive them a certain way. I would have to agree that the Skippy is similar.
The skippy drives correctly, at least pretty darn close, and that IS whats important. It gives the seat of the pants "feel" without actually having it, which you can't really have in a sim anyways.
The Skippy is a bit on the edge, just watch the Youtube videos you'll see what I mean. I do think the Spec racer isn't quite there yet, but its very close.
Nothing is perfect, but in this case there plenty good enough.

When you say the Skippy drives correctly, are you talking about AC or iRacing here?

 

[bsmooth]

Actually I think both of them drive correctly.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Actually I think both of them drive correctly.

I made the Skippy for AC. My view is that I'm not 100% sure exactly if it's right or not, and it's very challenging to determine without accurate tracks and knowledge of the *exact* setups people run and how worn their tires are. This just means it's close enough that small details like this start to become a sticking point.

The SRF is objectively off though. It's just a Skippy with some engine braking and rear ARB. Literally.

 

[aphidgod]

Nevermind, misread the post.

 

[Luis Mercury]

Skiiping head !

 

[Kyuubeey]

Dunno why you're still trying to prove something when you can take one look at the car's suspension, engine and aero and you'll know it's not right. Again, it's a Skip Barber with some mods. Stiffer rear ARB and more engine braking, different wheelbase and tracks, I think Z CoG too. Even the power and tires are the same.

Everyone who's ever made any car for a sim knows there's 500 ways to get an exact laptime, but matching telemetry is gonna demand a relatively more correct car (and track).

 

[Luis Mercury]

 

[smeisinger]

Kunos also has a decent budget and access to some of the cars they worked on, and almost nothing in AC is really close at all. 'Just AC modders' generally have done a better job at their respective cars.

Those kind of things like working with real drivers or real cars (Especially if you don't log any data out of them, like Kunos didn't seem to do so much for AC) almost don't matter if A: There's some serious underlying issue in the engine, and/or B: The devs making the car(s) don't do a good job for whatever reason.

I for one believe 'just an AC modder' could in a reasonable timeframe of let's say a week or so produce an SRF as good, or better than anything out there right now. There's so much data; much more so than for the Skippy, and the underlying simulation is largely sound, especially if using CSP physics. I could do it, and I can point fingers at a variety of people who could do it.

But hey, that's just my view from almost a decade of dev experience in various sims. Not like it matters to anyone, apparently.



When you say the Skippy drives correctly, are you talking about AC or iRacing here?

I didn't try to say modders necessarily aren't as good at creating cars as the people doing that full time (I'm aware that modders often do a much better job), I was simply talking about the data that's available to them. Sorry if that came off the wrong way.

 

[aphidgod]

You'd be surprised how much data is out there in the public sphere for some cars if you go looking. Some of us also own or otherwise have access to the cars we make IRL. And we certainly have more time to make and perfect a given car than Aris ever did. The best mod cars are very high level pieces of work.

 

[Kyuubeey]

I didn't try to say modders necessarily aren't as good at making cars as the people doing that full time (I'm aware that modders often do a much better job), I was simply talking about the data that's available to them.

I wouldn't make assumptions like that if you're someone who's never done any sim dev or ever talked to any sim devs. The "public's" view of professional sim dev is a bit skewed IMO. Well, a lot. Do remember that I've been in the whole physics modding thing for longer than AC has even existed, so I have some perspective.

It's not always more data than modders have access to, or often as much even. It seems for a lot of *road*cars, KS had significantly less data available than a diligent modder with good sources would have. There's substantial errors in everything I've looked at and can confirm to be an error.

Some OEMs will provide data beyond the absolute basics you can find from a 3sec search, some won't. Some race teams will provide everything, some won't.

In KS' case for the Japanese cars which I can judge a bit better, it seems they mainly do searching online up to a point and then hack together something because the OEMs don't provide anything at all.

It seems all of the racecars are hacked together in AC too; a bit less so in ACC it seems. I imagine they might have got some design or homologation or workshop documents for some cars in AC, and for ACC, well I don't want to talk about it here.

In iRacing's case I would be more willing to believe they have "complete data" for the cars they make. At least a very select few.

I don't want to talk crap about KS or anything, there are reasons for why every car might not be perfect or even good, but this assumption that professional sim studios even get access to any specific data isn't exactly accurate. Perhaps in the future every single car will be made to a very high level and the manufacturers are enthusiastic in aiding the process, but it's not like that right now from what I've seen.

 

[smeisinger]

Data for certain cars, of course.

Like the Spec Racers in this very case. Or LMP1 cars, GT3 cars and of course the MP4-30 they built some years ago.

Of course a modder can get better data of a car they have access to in the real world and/or they're totally into and know everything about.

edit: Yes, I am aware that there are modders that built race cars together with race teams and yes, I am aware that those are on par with iRacing's MP4-30 – when I initally said that iRacing has better access to data I was generalizing and talking about the average car that gets uploaded to racedepartment almost every day.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Unless iR actually has measurements and graphs from the SRF, they won't have a lot more data than you can find online fairly easily. I'm pretty sure they do analysis on the car if they have it, but bear in mind that just having the car and looking at it won't do very much.

 

[Gevatter]

Unless iR actually has measurements and graphs from the SRF, they won't have a lot more data than you can find online fairly easily. I'm pretty sure they do analysis on the car if they have it, but bear in mind that just having the car and looking at it won't do very much.

AFAIK - and I read that in an advertising blurb - iRacing laserscan their cars, so that should give them access to the thing for measurements.

 

[Kyuubeey]

AFAIK - and I read that in an advertising blurb - iRacing laserscan their cars, so that should give them access to the thing for measurements.

Geo probably is laserscanned indeed, but most everything else has been measured before and is online easily available. Unknown to me if truly accurate, but it exists. So the gap will not be terribly massive, assuming iR doesn't do any other analysis. I think they would do, but that's just my guess.

In the end tires is the big thing anyway. I think iR would be most likely to have reliable data on those tires: but maybe they don't. A large part of it just comes down to the sim devs' own feeling and opinions too, as you can't get data for every value.

 

[Luis Mercury]

A large part of it just comes down to the sim devs' own feeling and opinions too, as you can't get data for every value.

totally agree

 

[Luis Mercury]

good news .... read this

iRacing | Brand New Skip Barber and Lime Rock Park Coming December

iRacing have revealed a brand version of two legendary pieces of content are coming to the simulation this December. You would be right in thinking that both Lime Rock Park and the little Skippy are already available to purchase in iRacing, but the American developers have a little surprise -...

www.racedepartment.com

Historically, in each review of their cars, iRacing "sells" a new car in sensations and physics. Always with the argument of new tire models or to apply more precise data in aerodynamics or other adjustments.

Our "Spec Racer Ford" for AC ... Should there be a possibility and have a new version with settings?

We could call the current version as Gen2 (in fact the data is about GEN2....I think....)

And work on a new version that will call the name GEN3.

consider that this "GEN2" version has obtained a good score however it can evolve to the GEN3 version.

About 40 votes haved 4,83 stars.

remember that Daniel's works usually has very high scores of the demanding community of sim racing.

look this (Skip Barber)

What do you think Kyuubeey?
a great apportunity.

 

[Esotic]

Any chance we can get highlights in this car?

 

[Daniel Jimenez]

Working on a textures and shaders update... and Arch is working on the new physics... a little bit more time and this guy is going to born again