VR versus triple-screen for Assetto Corsa

[Billy Pilgrim]

I have a triple-screen setup. It's great.

I've never tried VR. I'd like to read opinions from those who have experienced both to understand how the two options compare.

The downside of VR, I understand, is the screendoor effect. That's about the extent of my knowledge. I'm thinking fps may be better in VR.

 

[Flibbberflops]

 

[motoliser]

Blip blip...hmm false alarm!

 

[Mascot]

I'm not sure how you got all that from him literally saying "to improve your technique on the real world racing circuit, the vr headset, I have to say, is much better than the 3 screen or single screen setup. why? because you're so much more inside the feeling. It feels real. It's unbelievable."

If you're looking for "the most real" then that's explicitly pro-vr.

@Flibbberflops was joking. Scott Mansell knows the real truth of the situation.

Purely anecdotal, but many years ago I shared lifts to work with a one-eyed guy. It used to scare the bejesus out of me how he'd fail to react to cars slowing in front of us until he was almost crashing into them because his monocular vision gave him no depth perception. That's what 2D racing is like for me now after using VR almost exclusively for the past six months.

 

[dud]

I think Scott Mansell must have read this thread. Published today

I'm not so sure how valuable this is. Even the most hardcore VR fan here says that you need to let your brain adjust to (current) VR so that you get rid of the screen door effect and various other artifacts.

Then, I haven't seen a single VR user here who doesn't turn on oversampling to get the sharpness up. Plus we adjust the actual headset and how it sits on the head. Plus eye width.

Combined this means that nobody could have a correct impression of VR by just sitting down on a default setup system.

 

[bigbawmcgraw]

Combined this means that nobody could have a correct impression of VR by just sitting down on a default setup system.

Are you suggesting that simtechpro don't know how to setup an Oculus Rift to get the best possible experience from it?
They've made a business by selling sim racing hardware. They are not going to pull a Rift out of a box, connect it to a GTX760 then plonk it onto someone's head and cross their fingers in the hope that he likes it.

 

[Stereo]

Then, I haven't seen a single VR user here who doesn't turn on oversampling to get the sharpness up. Plus we adjust the actual headset and how it sits on the head. Plus eye width.

Yeah, and who doesn't run AA on their single screen? It improves the image quality and the gpu has time to do it, turn it on. Oversampling's just the original form of AA, which works on everything, instead of only pixels that FXAA thinks matter.

 

[dud]

Are you suggesting that simtechpro don't know how to setup an Oculus Rift to get the best possible experience from it?
They've made a business by selling sim racing hardware. They are not going to pull a Rift out of a box, connect it to a GTX760 then plonk it onto someone's head and cross their fingers in the hope that he likes it.

Wanna bet?

 

[Insert Coin]

Someone on Reddit posted a pretty good picture of how the screen looks like in the Rift (to my opinion, I own a Rift for 1.5 years):

Not as sharp as on a monitor (not at all in fact), but in VR you're IN the car, in glorious 3D. I'll take VR anytime over a monitor. But that's me .

 

[Flibbberflops]

/\ Picture disclaimer.

Although I agree that is a fairly good photo to represent the quality of VR, it should be pointed out this is a obviously a portrait photo and is therefore not showing the full width of the FOV availible. I would estimate that the holistic view in this VR shot would show the whole of the left mirror and perhaps the whole of the windscreen to the right. You definately wouldn't see the right mirror without moving your head. The Vertical FOV looks as if it is about the full amount you see though.

 

[Mascot]

Is that picture taken with a cell phone through one of the Rift lenses? Like Flibbberflops says, what an odd decision to show it in portrait.
Quality-wise, yeah - that's quite a close 2D facsimile to what I see through the Rift, but the image comes alive in binocular 3D, and no 2D image will ever be able to replicate how immersively awesome that feels compared to a flat screen.

 

[Insert Coin]

I guess it was difficult to put a phone in landscape into the Rift?

 

[Brandon Wright]

Seeing that I was very much in the minority in my preference for triple screen over VR, I decided to buy a Samsung HMD Odyssey in order to give VR another try with a higher resolution model. I’ve only had a few hours to play with it, but in that time I’ve again (as with when I tried the Rift CV1 a year and a half ago) started to question my sanity!

Most of you guys are clearly enthralled and satisfied with VR and vow to never go back to 2D screens. But even with this higher resolution model, I just don’t get it. Yes the immersion is fantastic; yes the fluid headtracking is wonderful; yes the seemingly proper sense of proportion feels great. But the actual picture quality is certainly not what I would consider ‘sharp’—and yes I’m certain I have the unit mounted correctly on my head because I’m talking about how it looks to me at its sharpest, when things noticeably come into focus.

For example, sitting in the 911 GT3 2016: my mind can quickly figure out the button labels on the wheel, but to say that they are sharp and clearly legible would be a stretch. And that rings true for everything in VR for me.

I’ve tried bumping supersampling within the OpenVR settings (in-game app) up to 2.0 and it does not appear to make any difference whatsoever (and yes I restarted the game after making that change).

Clearly this thread proves that we each have our own preferences so I have no interest in arguing the merits of either one over the other. Rather, can any of you VR users offer any other suggestions on improving image quality? Am I missing something simple?

I should add that my need for glasses appears to cause its own set of issues, as things are quite cramped with both them and the headset on. And I strongly suspect, based on my previous Rift experience and now with the Odyssey, that the strong astigmatism in both my eyes makes things worse in VR. I’m actually going to get an eye exam this morning so that I can get some updated contact lenses to try with the unit and see if that makes much difference.

Just gotta give it time man, may take a week or three for your brain to adapt. No, it will never be as sharp or crisp as a monitor but eventually you'll get to where you can read stuff on the dash without much problem. It also greatly depends on what game your playing, some are quite a bit nicer looking than others in VR (IMO iRacing looks the best, PCars2 is the worst, AC is in the middle). VR is a compromise, for sure, but for most of us eventually the pros far outweigh the cons, I'm one that will gladly give up a smidgen of clarity in exchange for actually being IN the car. Apparently we all have different definitions of what immersion is but for me it's all about making me feel like I'm actually in a car and monitors just can't compete with VR in that aspect.

 

[Dan Costa]

It looks worse than the picture above. Believe it or not, the resolution is not the worst aspect of the rift. It is the glare (god rays). They cast a permanent smudge on the entire picture resulting in a severe loss of contrast and clarity.

If you wan't to try how it looks like, grab some glasses (can be sun glasses) and smudge the lenses with the grease of your fingers. Now turn into any light source and rotate your head. That's how oculus looks like.

Edit: I don't what to give the resolution an easy break either. Any car further than 300 meters looks like 8 bit pixel art.

 

[Motowntom]

Sorry I didn't have time to read your entire post but I got the picture.
Let me just make one thing clear to you since you obviously are more focused in showing of your argumentation skills then trying to understand what I say.
My monitor is not perfect but is the best Immersive experience IN MY OPINION.
I don't have to elaborate on why I consider it the BEST simply because I HAVE OWNED ALL THE ALTERNATIVES BROUGHT TO THE TABLE HERE.
If you want to know why I say what say or prove me wrong, the best you can do is buying the same monitor from a good return policy shop... otherwise until that day you have no valid arguments to contest my veredict.
But if you are happy spending a lot of time with completly incorrect perscribed glasses it's your problem and I can only hope you realise one day how bad your eyes have been treated!
I am hugely happy with this monitor and yes for me its the best immersive package available for racing.
But to each....

You sir are an Idiot...
Cheers

 

[Brandon Wright]

It looks worse than the picture above. Believe it or not, the resolution is not the worst aspect of the rift. It is the glare (god rays). They cast a permanent smudge on the entire picture resulting in a severe loss of contrast and clarity.

If you wan't to try how it looks like, grab some glasses (can be sun glasses) and smudge the lenses with the grease of your fingers. Now turn into any light source and rotate your head. That's how oculus looks like.

Edit: I don't what to give the resolution an easy break either. Any car further than 300 meters looks like 8 bit pixel art.

The glare really bothered me at first, that was the biggest reason for me wanting to return it. Now I don't even notice the glare, can't recall the last time I saw it. I'm sure it's still there but it goes completely unnoticed.

 

[Flibbberflops]

It looks worse than the picture above. Believe it or not, the resolution is not the worst aspect of the rift. It is the glare (god rays). They cast a permanent smudge on the entire picture resulting in a severe loss of contrast and clarity.

If you wan't to try how it looks like, grab some glasses (can be sun glasses) and smudge the lenses with the grease of your fingers. Now turn into any light source and rotate your head. That's how oculus looks like.

Edit: I don't what to give the resolution an easy break either. Any car further than 300 meters looks like 8 bit pixel art.

Eh? Just to be clear, someone stuck a phone inside VR and took a photo of the screen. So yes, that is exactly what it looks like.

Now, if you want to start a new topic of glare (aka godrays). Then yes it exists... but only in high contrast situations (i.e. Black background with white text). If you wanted VR to use VR for something like Elite dangerous, then yeah that is something to think about. However this simply isn't an issue in AC. The only time I have ever seen any VR glare in AC is when you have the Sun Glare ramped up (which in truth has the end result of making a mediocre effect annoyingly realistic)

 

[Kek700]

At the Autosport show this year i had the privilege of driving a really "very good" motion simulator
with VR. It would cost you a very nice £36000+
It was an amazing experience and "i" have spent the last few years driving quite a number of motion simulators with and without VR but none that comined the visual and motion experience synchronised
so accuratly.
I was immediately taken back to racing in a real car, the motion experience matched exactly to
the visual VR experience. So so life like, and to honest it was so involving i did not notice the screen door effect.
This is on the back of just buying triple monitors, not because i don't think VR is not a brilliant
system, it is that i am waiting for the resolution to get to where i think it should be.
I am not shure what the above really proves, but i thought i would at least add my experiences
to the on going forum post.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I love my Rift and to me it is the ultimate way to enjoy driving a SIM. If I had to not use VR for some reason I do not think I would be able to go back to single or triple screen. I love this hobby, I drive almost every day, almost because I have to travel sometime and I have been an enthousiast for over a decade.
All that to say that VR for me was a game changer, but I will not challenge anyone who does not share my passion for VR to drive a SIM. I do not understand how some one cannot embrace it for it is almost magical but I accept that some people do not enjoy it.
We do not have to be at war, every one should find a way to try it. Buying a used one is a good way to get an opinion, as selling it might not even cost anything if it is not for you.

 

[Dan Costa]

Eh? Just to be clear, someone stuck a phone inside VR and took a photo of the screen. So yes, that is exactly what it looks like.

Now, if you want to start a new topic of glare (aka godrays). Then yes it exists... but only in high contrast situations (i.e. Black background with white text). If you wanted VR to use VR for something like Elite dangerous, then yeah that is something to think about. However this simply isn't an issue in AC. The only time I have ever seen any VR glare in AC is when you have the Sun Glare ramped up (which in truth has the end result of making a mediocre effect annoyingly realistic)

Hi Flibbberflops


It looks worse than that picture, by a lot. I stand by it.


I had this discussion many times and when people respond with the arguments you just laid out, turns out its just a matter of what people interpret as being "god rays". Most people associate them with those light shafts coming out of bright spots, but they usually fail to realize that the god rays are just smaller instances of the bigger glare/smudge artifact, and in fact are always present and get worse the brighter the image is. in fact, its worse when the entire image is bright! (with no dark backgrounds).

This is what you call "god rays".

@ 25 seconds:

This is what happens when many god rays "bunch" together

@ 5 minutes

Low light source brightness

High light source brightness.

You cannot see the true black, color, or have any sort of clarity behind those smudges.

Now, according to your argument, If that black background was instead a white background, there would be no smudge. Well in truth, the brighter the overall image is, the worse the smudge/glare will be.

 

[Flibbberflops]

If am more than prepared to have a sensible converstaion about what effect godrays has on the image. However, if your starting point is an assersion that an actual photograph is not a acurate representation of what is seen by the eye, then to be honest I have no time or faith for any counter arguement you may put forward.

I see people posting photo's of triple screens / widescreens all the time. Not once would they even think to suggest that such a photo is an inacurate reflection of what you actually see. To try to do so instantly destroys any credibility you try to convey.

Ever real car I have ever driven has some kind of windscreen glare. This happens in high contrast situations. Bright sunlight, Night driving, dashboard / Interiour mirror / interior lights refelcting on the screen... the list goes on. It is the unfortuante side effect of the windscreen (which is in effect a form of lense). Now if you wanted to be pendantic you could argue that such reflections are there all the time. Indeed I am sure that if i was a passenger of any car, driving at anytime I could sit there and point them out. The only difference is in some high contrast situations they are very visible. However, in most normal situations you can't see them, yet they are not noticed in a car.

I have mentioned time and again that if we are talking about VR in other genre's, I would take a different standpoint. However, Sim Driving in the day this is really not a issue. In the three years I have been showing VR to newbies they have indeed noticed godays in high contrast situationss. However, litterally no-one has noticed any form of godrays in Assetto corsa. However given that you won't accept scientic evidence such as a photograph, I doubt that 3 years of use and experience of the Dk2 and CV1 in AC will do anything to slow you down!