Cars TVR Griffith 200 1.1

[Dirk Steffen]

This is pretty cool also. Not sure if it is a 200 or 400 though.

A light Code Brown @ ~01:30

That video PERFECTLY shows how extremely nervous the rear end of the real car is!
You can see that through the entire clip the driver is REALLY driving on his toes and in every single corner with high lateral loads at entry and through the corner the rear end is really sketchy and you see the driver both tippy toeing through there and constantly correcting with steering input.

This video really looks like I feel the mod car when doing such corners.

The corners in teh video where this behavior is MOST obvious are especially the entry to Pouhon and the consequent follow through the entire corner. This is a corner where even in high downforce cars such as modern GT3s one can feel the car getting nervous on entry and following through with a proper line under full throttle needs commitment.

The most important point to never forget is that the car in the video at Spa in 2011 was on MODERN TIRES whcih are truly worlds apart from 1960's compounds even modern "historic tire recreations" (which usually are just made to dimensional specs of the actual historic tires but the actual construction and compound are very much grippier than their.vintage counterparts ever were).
I love this car more and more ;-)

 

[mantasisg]

That 1:30 really shows the edge.

I think that historic tire recreations have specs of 60s tire. At least as far as I have noticed 60s car in historic events are rather similar pace as they were in their day, the older than 60s cars seems to be faster.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

It looks beautiful with wire wheels, don't you think?

 

[aphidgod]

The pre-60s cars seem to gain several seconds per lap on modern tires (and with modern tuning) but even the 60s cars do gain a bit. But you're right, it does seem to be less most times. Our D-type certainly displays this - it's several seconds quicker than historic times. Pretty much inline with modern pace. (And I've nerfed it about as much as I'm comfortable with already.)

 

[Andy-R]

Very fast !

Hard to judge car yaw motion as it is very short car and camera is very forward. But looks like it moves a lot, but in other hand that was a smooth lap.

By the way, whats the difference between Griffith and Grantura, only engine ?

The Griffith 200 is basically a Grantura Mk3 with some chassis parts removed or hammered to accept the new drivetrain. The brakes were the same (unless you paid the extra £100 for the SE version I guess which came with disks all round.) AFAIK the suspension is the same apart from maybe different springs and dampers but I have forgotten 95% of the research I did for this project already. IIRC the Grantura ran 1 coilover and 1 damper on the rear where the Griffith had 2 coilovers.

Yeah you can see them getting a bit out of shape in both of those videos, 4:30 in the Spa video he has another little moment. Surprise surprise some of those "moments" happened around the 60mph mark

 

[Andy-R]

Oh how I wish there were more sound guys, the 289 HiPo is a cool sounding engine. I think the GT350R's used it also except they were supercharged after 1965 I think.

Spoiler: vids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeO8VHRNXeg&t=198s

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Andy, I am currently using the Kunos Cobra 427 engine sound as a replacement for the Griffith 200 - except for the issue when ringing into 6750 RPM (the Cobra has a baked in limiter sound there :-( it sounds rather close to what the several videos of Griffith's suggests it sounds like).

It maybe worth to limit the Griffith to ~6650 RPM (did these really turn to 7150 in 1965 SCCA races) to allow for people to use the Cobra sound as a replacement.
Without limiting it in the engine.ini the AI runs circles around human racers who insist to stay below 6600 RMP for ear pleasure ;-)

I just finished a 40 car grid of Griffith 200 torture test at night at Spa - the fastest AI was 1 1/2 seconds faster than my slow butt (I was doing 02:57:4xx times).
I can report performance is great - no issues whatsoever (I kept testing to standard shader patch configs).
The Griff 200 files are complete and I am starting to translate to the road car now.

 

[Andy-R]

It's up to pctm which sounds as it is his car mod. I voted for the L49 though. It isn't great but the power delivery is so different to the donor car it at least sounds quite unlike it, it gets a bonus point for audible backfire also The Cobra is a car I've driven a lot and it is very noticeably the Cobra sound, it is also a little too deep sounding from that huge 427. I think the closest we have is perhaps the GT40 sound mod by @Amplified but the external volume for that is way too low. Same with the default GT40 sound, external is awful with that one. Some of the modern GT V8 sounds are ok but too much gearbox whine.

Thankfully we can all easily choose the sound we want with CM.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Of course, absolutely Andy ;-)
I just finished testing and finalized the lighting files of both cars and during testing I admit I drove the road going Griffith 200 for the first time and put ~4 km on the car - the race car had done now ~600 km during testing (I just had so much enjoyment with the race car).

THAT ROAD CAR is a BLAAAAST with all the chassis movement and still much to high power for these old skinny tires, it provides a grin from ear to ear ;-)
I also like to have a bit of a different sound character difference between the two and running the road car with the original sounds and the race car with some more "grunty" sounds makes pretending to race these lovely beasts so much more fun.

The sounds the mod comes with are great I like them and I am sure a lot of effort had been put into them.
It is just that especially with the race car the sound is a bit "thin" for a lack of a better word - it is a TVR after all and aren't TVRs supposed to come with "it will blow your and all your neighbors ears off exhausts" directly from the dealer ? ;-)

 

[Andy-R]

Of course, absolutely Andy ;-)
I just finished testing and finalized the lighting files of both cars and during testing I admit I drove the road going Griffith 200 for the first time and put ~4 km on the car - the race car had done now ~600 km during testing (I just had so much enjoyment with the race car).

THAT ROAD CAR is a BLAAAAST with all the chassis movement and still much to high power for these old skinny tires, it provides a grin from ear to ear ;-)
I also like to have a bit of a different sound character difference between the two and running the road car with the original sounds and the race car with some more "grunty" sounds makes pretending to race these lovely beasts so much more fun.

The sounds the mod comes with are great I like them and I am sure a lot of effort had been put into them.
It is just that especially with the race car the sound is a bit "thin" for a lack of a better word - it is a TVR after all and aren't TVRs supposed to come with "it will blow your and all your neighbors ears off exhausts" directly from the dealer ? ;-)

Not much work went into the sounds from our POV at all other than me creating a short video comparing some of the options available to us. We let Kunos deal with that part. The mod is running the Lotus 49 sounds by default.

I think if you can tolerate the Cobra it is probably a good choice, for me I've used it so much it is just too apparent I'm driving with Cobra sounds. I quite like the SLS GT3 and AMG GT3 sounds myself, a little too much transmission noise but not too bad. A good meaty V8 sound onboard and external that I haven't heard much in AC as I don't ever drive GT3, not quite right for the car really but I quite like it. 33 Stradale is ok but a little lacking in deep V8yness (I'm getting technical here) the 289 GT40 sound mod has a really nice internal sound but the volume is too far off the Kunos cars. I'll probably stick with default unless a mod comes out.

 

[aphidgod]

You might be able to disable the transmission noise in the guid file if it has its own entry. (Some do, some don't.)

 

[Andy-R]

Oh I just remembered:

About the redline of the race version, the HiPo/K-code 289 was designed to be high revving. Saying that I'm not sure they would run a limiter up at 7.5K during a race, in the Griffith or otherwise but in game there isn't much point taking it beyond 7000rpm anyway.

Here is some info about the HiPo 289
http://www.mustangandfords.com/feat...gh-performance-engine-a-hi-po-happy-birthday/
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...d-to-know-about-the-mustang-hi-po-289-part-1/

 

[aphidgod]

@tripprider To answer the question in your review, that was Mark Donohue.

 

[mantasisg]

Graham Hill trophy live in 12 minutes.

Griffith in pole position
https://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=GOODWOOD/2019/191465qu1ght.pdf

 

[Dirk Steffen]

That was bitter-sweet :-(

A shame the exhaust fell off - big props to the guys in the pit to get it wired in record time - the guys deserve a crate.
The black #20 TVR looked gorgeous among all the other beauties though ;-)

 

[Andy-R]

It is quite appropriate that BFR400B's exhaust fell off I think. Given that the results list for Griffith's in period is a wall of DNA, DNS & DNF

I'm sure I read during research that that Griffith is still running its original wire wheels. It is classified as a prototype as well for some reason.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

It is quite appropriate that BFR400B's exhaust fell off I think. Given that the results list for Griffith's in period is a wall of DNA, DNS & DNF

I'm sure I read during research that that Griffith is still running its original wire wheels. It is classified as a prototype as well for some reason.

It is quite an illustrious car it seems ;-)
… some bits why it may be so special:
http://www.nigelreubenracing.com/bfr.php

 

[Andy-R]

Yeah they prep all the UK Griffiths that race in modern historics I think. I tried to contact them for the mod but got no reply unfortunately.

I'm not sure if it is true but I read that the earlier style rear end isn't homologated for some reason yet the 400 is allowed as it is considered a continuation of the Series 200. Wider track and arches are allowed also (obviously.)

 

[Dirk Steffen]

That is strange (not to get the earlier rear ends homologated) but I would have to say, I like the look of the rear glass design and Lotus Cortina tail lights way better than the earlier design ;-)

What I find really interesting is that this car (Grantura) apparently is the very first car that started the "use a off the shelf, rather ordinary tail light and turn it upside down on a TVR treatment" ;-)

I think the absolute most beautiful example of this TVR thing is this gorgeous looking little thing:

1st gen Griffith 500 (the later 500 SE unfortunately does away with the repurposed tail lights from a car I won't mention):

I think TVR got every proportion just perfect for what this Griffith 500 was - a beautiful looking roadster.

 

[Andy-R]

I'm with you on the 500, it is my favourite modern TVR... and the noise!
Can't say I agree about the Kamm tail though. I much prefer the look of the earlier rear end. The Kamm tail 200's and 400's look really stumpy to me, proportions look all wrong, somehow the wheels look too big. The curved air intake under the nose doesn't help the situation on BFR400B, it looks cool but gives it a face only a mother could love

I'm quite partial to MK1 & MK2 Grantura's, there is a definite carp thing with the mouth but I must be into that I guess