In my view, I dont focus so much on the operational "what is it doing" or "how is it altering" the data for the effect. I focus on the felt sensation being generated and is the effect layer working to suit the purpose of the effect. If you copy a layer and paste 2,3 versions of it then switching between and trying different settings in each then you will find it lead you in a direction for whatever way you are seeking an effect layer to operate and feel.
In my view, I dont focus so much on the operational "what is it doing" or "how is it altering" the data for the effect. I focus on the felt sensation being generated and is the effect layer working to suit the purpose of the effect. If you copy a layer and paste 2,3 versions of it then switching between and trying different settings in each then you will find it lead you in a direction for whatever way you are seeking an effect layer to operate and feel.
To me, starting by understanding what the software is trying to reproduce, how it interprets the data and how the different settings alter the motor or transducer response are key elements if we are to get a certain level of control on what the results of altering settings is going to be.
Without that understanding we will probably spend hours fumbling in the dark.
At the end of the day, all that matters is how it feels, that is the end results but to get that result, understanding what the sim is providing, how Shakeit sees it, what it does with it, is essential to understand the limits and control that feeling.
You, because of your large experience either intuitively or because you learned it, already grasp what is happening. I don’t, I think many others don’t. I want to limit the trial and error process to the minimum. Unavoidable, yes, but as little as possible.
You use the term “layer” often, I have not seem any mention of layer in any of the settings in SimHub, what is a layer?
@Cote Dazur
I would be interested in getting feedback from you regards how the seat cushions immersion is with engines and it compares with the *New Test profile I have shared on the Discord channel.
I wanted an easy solution to highlight an engine with a wider frequency range and inclusion of harmonics for detailing in some effects I have been testing/building.
This test with RPM can give others a way to feel the differences in my own approach, regards effects creation and with the recommended Dayton DAEX32 Ultra exciter. It would be good if you or others decided to purchase even one of the recommended exciters to test and give your own feedback.
From the new test............
Now lads, tell me why we would want to limit the felt sensation or immersion we can have to under 100Hz? This simple test highlights usage of purposely placed harmonics operating up to 1000Hz at 0dB.
All of which, with attention to specific detailing layers added to effects creation. Will give much more potential detail in the 100-200Hz felt bass range and the additional audible tones from the engines RPM as well. It is for this purpose the recommended and affordable exciter excels and is the reason to consider.
I would be interested in getting feedback from you regards how the seat cushions immersion is with engines and how it compares with the *New Test profile I have shared on the Discord channel.
I will be glad to collaborate with you and do test, I will consider it kind of an honor to be a part of what you are doing.
I am still at the very beginning, much further than last week, but still totally green horn. So I will need a little more time advancing on my own, before diverting to extra curricular activities.
in a few weeks I should be up for it.
As far as where I am at now with my settings and I like them a lot, there it is Gametrix
Road Impact
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
Acceleration G-Force Buttkicker ( attached to the wheel base, feeling it in shifter and rim and pedals)
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
I played extensively with the settings in all of them, to get a feeling I like, it takes time but by doing it as shown is the video tutorial from @scottiedawg66 it was not too painfull.
Sharing specific settings is a little bit useless as different hardware will react very differently, so the only way, I think, is to try to understand what does what and play with it until it jell.
I am at the point where I would not drive without it, but hope I can make it better.
With tactile transducers and shakers.
Most common or budget level tactile will work at its best in 40-80Hz so effects can be created to use these frequencies that lots of people can enjoy. That part is not that difficult. The key element that varies a lot is how/where people install the tactile they have. The volume used and overdriving the tactile is a bigger problem that lots of people will do.
Somone placing units on the 4 corners will likely use much higher volume levels as much of the energy the units they have installed in the corners will disperse to places on the rig. It's not a very efficient way to achieve the best from the felt sensations. It's better to have a more direct installation with the seat/pedals regions and those sections of a rig using decent isolation so that they are decoupled from the main chassis.
Another drawback often happening on some installations I see. Is that because lower bass frequencies have more bandwidth/energy they can be felt over a wider area/distance than higher frequencies. It makes it harder to feel the higher bass frequencies if the tactile unit's energy has further to travel to the user's body regions. Generally, more direct installations will perform better than those doing the 4 corner approach and with no isolation used.
So a person with a configuration of units installed on the corners, their profile settings will likely have much more volume than a configuration for a user with units using much more direct installation. Volume has a sweet spot for certain frequencies, you will find this in effects that an effect can feel a bit bland with a low volume, yet overbearing at a high volume and just nice with an ideal volume.
The 40-80Hz is a very narrow frequency range to try and place multiple effects. If we are seeking to give different effects their own felt character and sensations then that 40Hz of "best use" range is going to have a user apply similar frequencies to various effects and therefore reduce the possibility of giving effects greater variation in their felt sensations.
This is a key point I am (trying) to get people to realise in the benefits with the exciters and mounting them direct to a seat for the best possible detailing. You are not going to need to worry about effects and learning all that the different settings do. Effects will be coming that will give you plenty of options to choose from or if wanted to adapt for your own preferences.
Sorry my own focus at this time is only with race sims.
As of yesterday, I have shared on the Discord Simhub Channel my "Tactile Toolbox"
V1.1 includes pre-configured layers for testing your tactile and to help understand better how different frequencies will operate on each users own hardware and installation.
GearShifts:
Test single tones, multiple layers in 5Hz steps from 5Hz - 100Hz
RPM:
Test frequency ranges both in:
Low Hz - High Hz
High Hz - Low Hz
It's not perfect but is a start to maybe helping. An update with more will come in near future.
I will be glad to collaborate with you and do test, I will consider it kind of an honor to be a part of what you are doing.
I am still at the very beginning, much further than last week, but still totally green horn. So I will need a little more time advancing on my own, before diverting to extra curricular activities.
in a few weeks I should be up for it.
As far as where I am at now with my settings and I like them a lot, there it is Gametrix
Road Impact
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
Acceleration G-Force Buttkicker ( attached to the wheel base, feeling it in shifter and rim and pedals)
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
I played extensively with the settings in all of them, to get a feeling I like, it takes time but by doing it as shown is the video tutorial from @scottiedawg66 it was not too painfull.
Sharing specific settings is a little bit useless as different hardware will react very differently, so the only way, I think, is to try to understand what does what and play with it until it jell.
I am at the point where I would not drive without it, but hope I can make it better.
As I have discussed I wish to add just a few additional transducers at the pedal board, and one or more at the seat in a "subwoofer" role. Nothing to involved, but I well rounded setup.
Is it too early for me to determine whats best to buy?
Here's my thoughts: - I need another Europower amp for 2 more exciter channels. This leaves me with 2 spare 75W peak channels. I would like to take advantage of these channels by powering 2 transducers at the pedal deck. Will 2 75W channels be enough? I considering using these well liked drivers at the deck
Are there better choices to be used here? Is using 2 75W peak channel for the pedal deck a realistic idea?
Next - The "Bass": driver / s for the seat to supplement the exciters?For this I would purchase a more powerful amp such as a DSP model. I have a few questions.
1 How many to uset? Would one big driver work in this "sub" role? Do I still need 2 / stereo for this part?
2. Would direct seat mounting call for a somewhat smaller transducer than the LFE? Perhaps the mini LFE? Do you have recommendation yet for a seat mounted shaker to compliment the exciters?
Hey thats excellent, good man. Congrats for getting the first step achieved. Normally I would try to advise people to look at the more longterm perspective. So, for instance, I would recommend 1x large BK for the seat (with the idea of a 2nd later) over getting two smaller Mini instead.
What the 6 exciters will do is highlight stereo effects, if you want them you can use the 6 exciters solely for engine based effects. My experimenting is going with both options but the beauty is the user would install these and then with a simple profile and saved configuration, we can decide to either use them in
6-way multi-channel with different effects on the various units
Multi-channel RPM with various layers on the units for more detailed engines
Unlike Simvibe in how the tactile installation is used, we are not locked to the setup/configuration. It just does not offer easy switching or placement of effects between EM/CM modes and even then its not even possible to use some effects on an EM-based configuration.
One of the benefits with SBS is bypassing all that restriction. We are free and not restricted in how/where effects can and cannot be placed. Or load a configuration that can suit to use the tactile differently.
Its not for me to tell everyone how to exactly install all their tactile as peoples own preferences will vary. This concept does of course, need certain things done to keep compatibility in testing and creating or testing new effects ideas.
You have to decide if you want to go with a monocentric front/back or stereo left/right focused installation. Do you want the large BK addition first to compliment in the seat the exciters? So different ways you can go with this at the moment. Do you get a large BK and NX3000D before the other options? That's up to you.
Now, I am inclined to push stereo positioning as an important installation must-have. In my view, it's a bit of a wasted opportunity to have a motion rig but then not also have tactile operate with full positional effects to complement the 4DOF. So my own build will offer both stereo L/R but also front/back G load tactile immersion.
The current SFX seems to output the same vibrations to all 4 actuators as 4-way mono so it appears to have directional bumps in physical motion but non-directional vibrational tactile immersion. Yet as it has very strong potential in power I would seek to use SFX vibrations mainly for the largest bumps/impacts and the car bottom and this be mono over the whole rig.
Now, I believe it's possible with other effects using independent tactile. We can bring superior detailing with well-installed units and more user control with Simhub. The question is, what's the best way to go about it as I don't see anyone trying to seriously combine both and I am intrigued to see what can be done.
You may have a priority to place more focus on the front and rear by combining the pedals and seat first. This can be cheaper to do and is increasing the body zones. So yes it will add to the immersion but then omits in tactile immersion steering based effects or positional bumps/wheel slip.
If you don't want the large BK benefits first, then I would advise you to buy 2x TST 209 or TST 239 to power as the additional channels on the 2nd EPQ304. These can be easily mounted and then lets you maybe compare having front/rear or left/right based installation.
For the BK units, while more expensive, you could hold off and get the biggest. Ideally, you want 2 of these for L/R or F/R based installation as this way you can have positional deep bass for L/R in stereo on the seat. Or F/R for braking/deceleration forces with detailed judder tactile effects and acceleration G loads.
We can also apply effect layers for increased engine immersion as well as speed but these will work on either installation you prefer. Keep an eye out for ebay bargins, often it's possible to get a BK Concert or BK LFE in good condition for well-discounted prices.
I have ordered an EPQ304 myself, with intent to get another. Like you yes I have the intention to also add exciters to pedals etc but the focus at the moment is on the seat and effects creation.
I do wonder though if the EPQ304 may need a fan mod for quieter operation?
Any fool can crank one up to really stupid wattages but it's not a problem if it's used properly. The benefit and one of the main purposes of using it are to achieve good response from below 20Hz frequencies, which we can't really get with smaller or typical $100 units and has been discussed/illustrated many times in this thread.
Several people have two at pedals and two at seat. They are maybe best used under 50Hz or lower depending on the role and effects you are using them with. I want to install 6 to my seat with the current plans I have to use for specific effects roles.
This may sound crazy but it means I can have multiple units maintain their detailing and individual low bass frequencies better than a single unit can. Units will be used independently for specific effects.
My rockwood 100watt shaker costs 13 € and goes down to 16hz
optimal working at 20 hz with some weight at the spindle pics of the weight mod will follow
about 1,25 kg extra
Sure a Buttkicker is nice but - IMO this is an alternative for people with smaller wallets
My rockwood 100watt shaker costs 13 € and goes down to 16hz
optimal working at 20 hz with some weight at the spindle pics of the weight mod will follow
about 1,25 kg extra
Sure a Buttkicker is nice but - IMO this is an alternative for people with smaller wallets
My rockwood 100watt shaker costs 13 € and goes down to 16hz
optimal working at 20 hz with some weight at the spindle pics of the weight mod will follow
about 1,25 kg extra
Sure a Buttkicker is nice but - IMO this is an alternative for people with smaller wallets
Yeah but a BK mini is affordable and will likely still have more punch than the modded Rockwood?
The Rockwood is similar I think to the Reckhorn.
With no disrespect what you are referring to may not be a 16Hz pure-tone.
This is a response from Simhub for a gearchange with 16Hz shift. Notice how it includes lots of additional harmonics actually up to @300Hz at 0dB.
The greater energy bandwidth with low bass frequencies needs sufficient wattage. Generally, with larger shaker based tactile units, they need additional excursion as well as increased wattage to help properly deliver the low-frequency bandwidth. in this illustration/example someone may think they are feeling 16hz but really they could be feeling the harmonics at 32Hz and onwards?
Just like hi-quality subwoofers, for proper impressive low-frequency bass and lots of energy. Such quality bass comes at a price.
I test this with this Online Tone Generator and rfactor 1 and FM7 it works like charm.
if u put more mass on the shaker it goes down to 15hz without any problem
but not over 2.5 kg
1.25 kg @20hz is ok it feels very natural and good for pumps or road surface effects
The mod is very easy ->simply drill a 8mm whole into the middle of the shaker
but attention before taking of the metal plug (drill out) dont let the metalshavings come between the coil area!
What is the weight adding to the effect? How much weight are you using?
Update on my tactile journey. I like it more and more, it really pays off to be patient and test one setting at the time. This is what I am using now. I am using the exact same setting for both the Gametrix and BK and they work in tandem, complementing each other. It feels close to what I feel when driving IRL. The seat vibrating with the wheel not vibrating feels weird.
Gametrix
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
Buttkicker ( attached to the wheel base, feeling it in shifter and rim and pedals)
Road Vibration
Simulated Road Texture
