Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

I just hooked up a new Buttkicker mini LFE to my new Sim-Lab rig under the seat and, using SimHub ShakeIt Bass Shaker, it appears to pop occasionally when it hits hard. My wife said "it sounds like a firecracker". I've got all the effects in ShakeIt at the default 50%. My amp is an old Yamaha RX-V377 Home Theater Receiver that is allegedly rated at 70w RMS per channel at 8 ohms and I have the volume up on it to about -3db. Is the issue that I am really only pushing 35 watts max at 4 ohms since the receiver is rated for 70 watts at 8 ohms? I know I can turn the volume down but that severely lessens its effects. Thoughts?

Welcome to "Piston Pang" this is the piston hitting the casing.
The smaller Buttkickers are notorious for this and it's been covered in these forums in different threads. One partial solution may be to drop the EQ level for the 30Hz for the soundcard being used as the smaller units seem to have a peak around the 35Hz range but can bottom if frequencies below this value have high amplitude with the effects being generated. The best sensations/detail will likely be between 40-80Hz as this is a common range tactile works well on the smaller tactile units.

If you want the best software EQ on PC then look into trying PEACE APO EQ.
Configure this to work with the soundcard you are using for tactile output. This will give you the ability to use "Parametric EQ" (PEQ) and determine what Hz you want to equalize unlike a standard EQ with fixed frequency sliders.

Its a great EQ tool and you should find some tutorials of it on Youtube.

 

[anton_Chez]

Have a read through the tactile posts on here and search for 'piston pang'. It's been discussed heavily and it's an inherent design flaw with the Mini LFE. You can work around it. Long story short, any signal below 38hz, give or take, is prone to knocking and should be avoided. You can solve it by lowering gain, but as you said, it spoils the rest of the effects if too low.

You will find many solutions that I myself have tried, depending on the programs you're using and a little trial and error testing.

 

[NoOne3000]

Well, what's weird is that all the frequency ranges as stated in the ShakeIt Bass Shaker settings appear to be set in the 42 to 55 Hz range, so i'm not sure if i'm truly getting any frequencies lower than 42.

Does anyone else have any ShakeIt Bass Shaker settings as used with a Mini LFE? I'm only using 1 right now but i'm also trying to figure out if my amp is under powered or if I need to buy a regular LFE or a Mini LFE to go with the single I have now.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well, what's weird is that all the frequency ranges as stated in the ShakeIt Bass Shaker settings appear to be set in the 42 to 55 Hz range, so i'm not sure if i'm truly getting any frequencies lower than 42.

Does anyone else have any ShakeIt Bass Shaker settings as used with a Mini LFE? I'm only using 1 right now but i'm also trying to figure out if my amp is under powered or if I need to buy a regular LFE or a Mini LFE to go with the single I have now.

Values given are typically what are referred to as "Center Values"
This does not mean if you set 42Hz that only 42Hz is output as this is not how audio works.

Heres an example I showed before, highlighting 20Hz and 60Hz frequencies being shown. You will have neighbouring frequencies included either side of the "Center Value" this is often referred to as the "Q". Lowering a Q value in (EQ Software) can narrow what the "neighbouring frequencies" are.

What gain or amplitude is set can have a bearing on what is felt too. Imagine the below examples to be peaking at -3 and not +3 as to how this would alter the energy and frequencies then being felt. .

Mini Lfe can output low frequencies below 30Hz but it needs the amplitude of them to be controlled. This means that when you increase the "Gain / Volume" for all frequencies, in using an EQ you are restricting the selected (troublesome) frequencies by lowering their amplitude so that the gain increase has little impact on them, thus greatly reducing or eliminating the problem.


The iNuke DSP amps are great for this but the EQ solution shared and depending on the settings you use within the software SHOULD enable improvements. Just spend some time with it. I can't say that I have experience of using a Mini Lfe with Shakeit but that software does look promising on the whole and "Wotever" is doing great work on it.



To visually see what frequencies are being output in real time needs specialist software and to use such comes with its own learning curve.

 

[NoOne3000]

Thanks. Using the recommended EQ program above and taking out the below 38 frequencies seems to have done the trick. However, it now seems that the BK mini now goes into thermal shutdown after 30 minutes of use. I just found this thread that speaks to this - https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...ringer-inuke-dsp-amplifier-buttkicker.132176/

I have the low frequencies now boosted in that EQ program. I will put them back to 0 tonight and see how it goes but obviously the effects will be lessened. And it was just starting to get good!

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks. Using the recommended EQ program above and taking out the below 38 frequencies seems to have done the trick. However, it now seems that the BK mini now goes into thermal shutdown after 30 minutes of use. I just found this thread that speaks to this - https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...ringer-inuke-dsp-amplifier-buttkicker.132176/

I have the low frequencies now boosted in that EQ program. I will put them back to 0 tonight and see how it goes but obviously the effects will be lessened. And it was just starting to get good!

Well I guess, some progress is better than none, lol

With that EQ I believe you can also set a crossover so it would control what Hz will output.
You can, in theory, find what boost suits the lower frequencies and possibly just have a dip for a specific range like was done with the iNuke in that thread. Additionally what may help keep the unit operating cooler is reduce the range it is working with.

So with a crossover limit the output to 100Hz or even 90Hz
What you can do with a crossover (while easier with iNukes control interface)than perhaps with PEACE APO software is to test a small range to feel what you are getting. So for example, if you tried testing the tactile output between 80hz and 100Hz you would only feel what is in that 20Hz range.

The same test/method can be done say for 5hz-25Hz to again determine if what it brings is worthwhile on the unit you have. Basically by reducing the "operating range" the unit outputs should help to keep it cooler. Also keep in mind that Hz = cycles per second so something like 100Hz which may not bring a great deal of sensation (more buzz than bass) has the piston working overtime especially if an engine and other effects are all operating on one single unit.

The 3rd option, is to lower the number of effects you are using or range they may use. All of these options may help you find a way to avoid the "thermal issue" and have your tactile operating in a range it outputs a good response but is essentially working in a controlled manner that is more efficient or optimised yet still to your preference.

 

[Mr Latte]

For my own cockpit goals.....

I've been beavering away with designs and ideas for my new seat section build, (working on 3rd solution) also adding some new hardware that brings more control to mixing or sending sources to specific channels.

I have decided that I will now incorporate the ability to use any of the following sources or a mix of them to how I desire on the fly.

• 5.1 Audio Tactile
• 6 Channel SSW
• 4 Channel EM or CM via ShakeIt or Simvibe

So having 5.1 Audio Tactille combined or mixed with 6 channel SSW Telemetry Tactile but also have the ability to mix in a 3rd source (Shakeit or Simvibe) using them for perhaps specifc effects only (eg engine) and then direct these to any or all of the 6 channels at will.

 

[anton_Chez]

My units actually got pretty hot when I first got them, during testing them screwed to an old coffee table. Since then, they've been mounted to the cockpit and I've not noticed anything regarding heat. I wonder if they need to 'bed in' initially, causing them to heat up. Not sure, but mine are fine now so I wouldn't worry.

 

[Mr Latte]

The other issue/query I would have is if the unit is well greased or needing some more applied?

 

[leeroy605]

on the iNuke DSP 1000, can the side sections for rack mounting be removed as well as the two handles on the front (even by breaking them off)? If so what is the width of the unit without these sections on?

I really want this amp for my rig, but it needs to fit in between the two side plates where the seat goes due to it being on castors and moving around. I need everything to be attached to the rig somehow and the dimensions for this amp are currently too big!

 

[Mr Latte]

on the iNuke DSP 1000, can the side sections for rack mounting be removed as well as the two handles on the front (even by breaking them off)? If so what is the width of the unit without these sections on?

I really want this amp for my rig, but it needs to fit in between the two side plates where the seat goes due to it being on castors and moving around. I need everything to be attached to the rig somehow and the dimensions for this amp are currently too big!

The new model is released
Behringer NX1000D although the more powerful NX3000D isnt much more but prices may vary in different regions. (D) is the DSP version.

See HERE

 

[leeroy605]

The new model is released
Behringer NX1000D although the more powerful NX3000D isnt much more but prices may vary in different regions. (D) is the DSP version.

See HERE

Ah cool did not realise a new version was released. Much difference to the old model? Would I expect much difference going between the 1000 and 3000 model with 2 x Aura Pros?

Also are all amps like these the same width? My dimension question above still stands need to know the width of the amp without the mounting flanges if possible! Thank you

 

[Mr Latte]

Ah cool did not realise a new version was released. Much difference to the old model? Would I expect much difference going between the 1000 and 3000 model with 2 x Aura Pros?

Also are all amps like these the same width? My dimension question above still stands need to know the width of the amp without the mounting flanges if possible! Thank you

See the PDF for details for dimensions, on Behringer's website, I think the specs are very similar.
For Aura no you dont need the additional power but if you were to get the 3000 model it would easily power two of the largest Buttkickers on the market. Its really just about keeping an option if you think you may one day want to upgrade, if buying the 3000D now you wouldnt need to get a more powerful amp later.

 

[schmitzna]

See the PDF for details for dimensions, on Behringer's website, I think the specs are very similar.
For Aura no you dont need the additional power but if you were to get the 3000 model it would easily power two of the largest Buttkickers on the market. Its really just about keeping an option if you think you may one day want to upgrade, if buying the 3000D now you wouldnt need to get a more powerful amp later.

Any information on the fan noise on the new models? I can't believe how quiet the $15 fan I put into my iNuke NU1000 is compared to how it was stock.

 

[leeroy605]

See the PDF for details for dimensions, on Behringer's website, I think the specs are very similar.
For Aura no you dont need the additional power but if you were to get the 3000 model it would easily power two of the largest Buttkickers on the market. Its really just about keeping an option if you think you may one day want to upgrade, if buying the 3000D now you wouldnt need to get a more powerful amp later.

Thank you, Mr Latte

I think for now as I am struggling to fit the behringer on my rig I will stick to the SMSL SA-98E 160wx2 amp I ordered and see how I get on.

If the tactile bug gets me it's nice to know there is a new model out that is easily obtainable. The old model was becoming hard to find in the UK...

 

[anton_Chez]

I have those amps, they are awesome for the price.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thank you, Mr Latte

I think for now as I am struggling to fit the behringer on my rig I will stick to the SMSL SA-98E 160wx2 amp I ordered and see how I get on.

If the tactile bug gets me it's nice to know there is a new model out that is easily obtainable. The old model was becoming hard to find in the UK...

Hey no problems, below is another very compact alternative that you could maybe order (£20-30 ish) and I would really appreciate someone comparing to the SMSL SA98E

You may even want to return the SMSL units as these too may be ideal for the £50-£100 ish tactile (50-100w range) and be a really affordable way to get into it.

I had planned to look into these NOBSOUND amps but I am currently heavily into my own configuration with new upgrades and trying different installations for my seat build that's been taking months to do.




For this solution, you will find many similar looking options. Here is a video below that contains some info but these miniature amps have been on my radar for a while. See the guys channel or look into options for latest or various models. As their are quite a few or clones you may want to seek to get the newest/best.

The newest models can support upto 50w x2 (this will vary with powersupply used and ohms of tactile/speakers). I assume that the models which ship with upto a 24V power supply are best. I think it may be better to use direct connection and not Bluetooth via the Aux inputs for what we are doing.

See HERE for one example:

 

[Mr Latte]

For tactile enthusiasts, or those not afraid to experiment, this is something that came out recently that I shared to help improve and control their tactile.

Dayton Audio DSP-408
You can download the PC software for free. Do not own this personally but the software even works really well with my touchscreen monitor. This certainly has some nice possibilities or features at a reasonable cost.

Have a look if interested but for anyone with standard amps it could bring some DSP controls (EQ / Crossover) to much better fine tune their tactile in matching the performance characteristics of the unit they own. Or it can help with installation issues with bad vibrations in materials or pesky reverb. Basically, you can tune the output in how the tactile operates with the various frequencies.

Guy giving an overview for his car installation but we can see some of the options this hardware/software offers. It is rather crazy for what is $150

Shows PC software at 25:15

 

[super kermit]

Mr Latte,

I have been following your posts for quite a while and from my readings you seem to be the expert on the forum here.

I am building two systems (the rig is no more so I am making do)

One for gaming and one for home theatre

From your posts I've decided on using

1 x BEHRINGER NX3000D POWER 3000W STEREO POWER AMPLIFIER WITH SMARTSENSE (home theatre) into an electric reclining 3 seater couch + tactile transducers

1 x BEHRINGER NX1000D POWER 1000W STEREO POWER AMPLIFIER WITH SMARTSENSE (attach to the office/gaming ergohuman chair) + tactile transducers

https://ergohuman.com.au/ergohuman-elite-office-chair/

I need help picking the transducers though, for both movie watching and gaming (car, flight and FPS sims)

All the transducers are coming from parts express, amps locally in Australia

https://www.parts-express.com/

I know its not sim racing related, but you are an expert in this area and thought I would ask

Thanks in advance

 

[Spinelli]

I am buying a Sim-Lab P1 cockpit and have a Next Level Racing Motion Platform v3.

The Buttkicker Gamer 2 is not cutting it for me. I am going to order a Buttkicker Advance and a Clark Sythesis TST209 or TST239 Silver along with a Behringer INUKE NU3000DSP / NX3000D.

The Clark Synthesis' primary focus will be engine RPM vibrations (via Simvibe) as I read these units are much better for high frequencies than Buttkicker.

What do others think of this 1x BK Advance + 1x CS TST209 (or TST239 Silver) combination?

Should I get the CS TST209 or the TST239 Silver???