Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[anton_Chez]

you might be able to get a couple of mini LFE's and a 2 channel amp similar to the SMSL amps that I have. They are pretty inexpensive for what they are and have plenty of power to feed the mini's. They might stretch your overall budget a little but anything cheaper than this and you're looking at transducers more along the lines of the Aura's.

@rparker I think you need to enable shared memory in PCars (2) to have the telemetry output the signal to Simvibe.

 

[rparker]

thanks that was it

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey guys, I have a P1 rig and am interested in getting some tactile feedback for it, what would I be able to get hardware wise for £250 to start with 2 transducers and amp?

You can go in cheap by all means but then find you may want to upgrade, so consider getting the better amp as it will be good enough for larger models. Even if starting with a single or two cheap tactile units. You will easily be able to sell these on if for instance, you like what tactile brings but then want to upgrade to more capable models later.

A decent basic amp is about £100 a good amp these days is closer to £200 - £300, if seeking one that can accommodate the smallest to largest units and note also different ohms like 2ohm, 4ohm, 8ohm tactile models. Its clear in this thread the make/models that many have went with and at this current time new models about to replace them (recently announced/shown)

In the UK the Reckhorn BS200i is amongst the best value units but these days the smaller BK Mini LFE units are in between 2-3 times the price. Have a look . These are good to start with but still very limited in the sheer power and low-frequency abilities they have.

With a new build implementation (thats slowly progressing) I will be seeking to do some comparisons on the following tactile models (below) to help my own understanding for continued effects research/creation:

• Dayton HDN8 (4ohm)
• Dayton Puck (8ohm)
• ADX Maximus (4ohm)
• Reckhorn BS 200i (4ohm)
• Buttkicker Gamer (2ohm)
• Buttkicker LFE (Large) (4ohm)
• Buttkicker Concert (Large) (2ohm)
• Clark Synthesis 209 (4ohm)
• Clark Synthesis 329 Gold (4ohm)
• Clark Synthesis 429 Platinium (4ohm)

Ebay Bargin Options

It is possible to use an old 2nd hand AV Amplifier for @£100 these days on ebay. However, pay particular attention here, what you want is a model that is firstly 4ohm capable as (most tactile are 4ohm not 8ohm) and also a unit that can support the old 7.1 MULTICHANNEL analog inputs. With these you can input the various soundcard channels independently into such amps. Then connect the tactile with the multichannel speaker outputs. This old feature was for standalone DTS decoders or Sony SACD back before HDMI became the thing.

I have 2 old models Sony/Yamaha sitting that can run multiple small tactile from one unit.
The Sony ES series was widely sold and available in the 1200ES 2400ES and others.
It was typically mid-high-end AV amps that had the MultiChannel inputs (back in the day) a feature now rarely seen but these models could have been originally £500+ also having pretty decent internal amplification and build quality. You should find in UK Sony STR-DA1200ES is easily available for very little money. It could power 2 - 4 or even upto 7 units like the ADX or BS200i but I think it may struggle with multiple Buttkicker Minis (piston based units). Some will see getting one of these better than buying say an SMSL 2channel amp for just under £100.

I have a Sony 5200ES unit and Yamaha RX-V4600 but I will use 6x Behringer iNuke DSP amps to power all my own tactile on an upcoming yet very high-end tactile build. I've been through most of the budget-pro options over the years, used more than 10 different amps, various soundcards, and additional hardware, so have a fair idea on what each option brings.

If your willing to spend several hundred quid on a shifter, rim or other "quality" sim gear. Then my advice is, ask yourself should you look at tactile any different? Possibly consider starting with "quality" in an amp but then add better or more units in time? Or the Av Amp bargain, via ebay purchase gamble. These are two very different options at each extreme.....

Good luck however on your decisions as to what best suits yourself...

 

[SOLO59]

Don't be jealous. I have one of the cheaper TSTs - the 209 and last night's experiment really kind of accented its shortcomings. Though, I did not play around with my DSP settings to see if I can squeeze more performance out of it.

Speaking of last night: Pretty easy to get myself set up and going with just SV engine feeding my TST (gear shift was virtually none existent so I think I'll send that to my LFE). Unfortunately, as I inferred above, the effect wasn't all that engaging. Part of it is my set up in that I think I'm asking too much of the 209 to transmit through it's 8020 support, the steel seat support and then the seat itself. I'm contemplating directly mounting it to my seat's shell which means drilling some holes. Not sure I want to go there but I realize that would be the ideal solution.

What I found was happening was a lot of the effect was too buzzy and didn't have enough presence. I limited the range within SV which helped but even at 0db, I wasn't getting enough energy. Again, I think this is a combination of my setup and the diminutive 209. Fun experimenting though.

Oh... I haven't done any searches on this yet but does anyone have a quick answer on why SSW wasn't picking up any of the telemetry from RF2? I just started driving that sim and last night was the first time trying it with feedback. SV had no problem giving me engine but with SSW and telemetry logging on I could see it wasn't detecting any of the data from RF2. I did click the implement RF2 plugin checkbox. I'll do some searches and if I come up blank I'll ask Andrei over in his support thread but thought I would toss it out here if anyone already went thru the same experience.

Wow I'm surprised you weren't able to achieve good feedback with SV engine effects? If you send me your email via PM, I can send you one of my SV profiles via google drive to try out. I had my brother try out my rig recently and really enjoyed the strength and details of the bumps, and the solid engine effects.

I totally agree with you here,

believe I've mentioned in the past that when I'm driving, I am extremely focused and tend not to notice tactile feedback all that much. Of course I do notice its absence if it isn't on but not to the point I find it distracting. Therefore, I'm not that hung up on stereo feedback. I prefer to focus on the fidelity of the feedback

But for me, I started out with SV, I really like the level of immersion it provides for me, so I'm sticking with my tactile setup. SSW is growing though and is really getting there. Maybe SV might step it up a bit... We'll see.

 

[rparker]

my sharkers all sound as expected in windows and in simvibe manager.

i am using the asus strix 7.1 head set. its the default sound source

ive tried 2 sound cards but there both creative labs. a sound blaster z and a on board recon 3d. thats on board with gigabyte gamer 7.



it doesnt make any difference weather the on board is disabled or not

. i have a tst 209 under the seat mounted to a seal plate. and a ADX for the pedals. the pedal plate is a light pice of aluminum .
and the power is a inuke 1000 dsp

the TST IS musical with the engine revs. alot more than the physical engine rev feeling. have you ever heard a stereo in a car that that made a buzzing sound with engine ? its like that

the adx on the pedals it bumps and thumps a little. but it mostly just a constant vibration all the time. its nothing like the feel you get the floor board of a 400 horse power car going through the gears.

without simvibe with either sound card set as default with the shakers hooked up. the vibration is alot more solid and is what i expected by reading all the hype for base shakers on a sim rig. the seat vibrates almost chills up your back and when it shifts it hits just like my 450 hp cars did when i was a kid. the pedals give a solid thump. i have feed back when i hit a wall thats solid and when i go off the road the whole thing shakes like hell

Would please some take the time explain were i am going wrong. i am culeless when it comes to the DSP in the amp. but its set in dual mono. i set the range on the adx 20hrz to 85 hrz in the EQ page with the dials. or maybe its the cross over page. the tst is set to 20 hrz to 100hrz.
were can i go to read the ins and outs on the DSP software.
pretty disappointed with whole thing really.

refund on simvibe ?
does simvibe not get along with creative labs sound cards?

any thoughts or advise
thanks

solo59 can i bother you ;_)

 

[SOLO59]

No bother at all @rparker

I'm guessing you are running your 2 shakers in Simvibe Extension Mode? Just making sure, you are using only one rca y splitter to 3.5 mm jack cable, volume for all your active audio devices in windows settings is maxed out?

Other than that, I'm not sure why you aren't feeling much with your setup and Simvibe. For me, Simvibe, 2 ADX's and 2Aurasound Pro shakers are really good!

If want some ideas, I can either send you my SV profile (AMS, just because it gives the best bumps feeling), and/or you can see screen shots of my setup below;

Here are my Simvibe settings. Note, I keep all overall intensity at 0.


Here are the Simvibe effects I use.


Two of the engine effects in SV CM. Note I assigned one effect to the front and the other to the rear = one engine effect for each of my Aurasound Pro shakers




Another engine effect I use, assigned to all four corners via both my Aurasound shakers (mounted on seat-mid and lower back). This is where I set the cars minimum RPM for "all 4 ranges." E.g., I'm using a minimum RPM for this profile of 1500. So I'll use this profile for cars around that minimum RPM. This is not "perfectly" realistic, but much better than having millions profiles for the millions of cars in all your games. Cars still feel different from car to car, and still very immersive!




Bumps for my ADX at my pedals. As Soon as I'm pulling out the pits, I feel the bumps already and I know I'm in for a hell of a bumpy ride (in a good welcoming way of courses).


Rear bumps for my ADX under my seat. independent feel from the front bumps.

I hope the above helps you out.... Oh and my amps volume is at about 40 to 45 p percent depending on car and track.

 

[rparker]

thanks solo ill check these out. yes in extensions mode.

using these cables from my sound card to the inuke dsp 1000 amp.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QMIT3MU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

the tst 209 that is on the seat. is on channel a. and the adx on the pedals on channel b. in the amp set up i have tried both stereo and dual mono. having your settings will be a big help
im sure im not doing some thing right.

in extensions mode it makes me have shifter and wheel checked even though i am only running seat and pedals is that right? so under mixer i just disable every thing under wheel and shifter. but thats neither here nor there ive tried it both ways.
i wonder if simvibe hates creative lads sounds cards.
big thanks ill try your settings

 

[SOLO59]

I'm glad I can help☺.... If you think your sound card may be the problem, maybe shoot the guys at Sim Commander a support ticket regarding that. I'm using a cheap usb sound card for 2 of my shakers and it works great.

The cable you posted, I am not familiar with... I hope its not effecting your performance.... I guess you need that cable for your amp.


Hope it works out for you... Let me know how it goes!

 

[rparker]

howdy.

i had wife duty today. so no video games
parts express told me to get those cables. they must work cause it seems fine with out simvibe. ill start a trouble ticket with simvibe tomo.
in the amp dsp i have the low pass set at 120 and the high at 800hz for the tst.
is that right?
thanks again

 

[Mr Latte]

howdy.

i had wife duty today. so no video games
parts express told me to get those cables. they must work cause it seems fine with out simvibe. ill start a trouble ticket with simvibe tomo.
in the amp dsp i have the low pass set at 120 and the high at 800hz for the tst.
is that right?
thanks again

Concentrate on tuning each unit separately.
Here are some general guidelines for newcomers or those new to iNuke DSP.

Your rig or materials used could have reverberation making additional noise, (is this part of the problem) if so you should want to try and limit or avoid such. In some cases this reverb may be in an actual seat. For instance, I find my carbonfibre backed seat is prone to certain frequencies, requiring me to lower their individual gain levels.

We need to understand that different materials reverberate with different frequencies and different materials also affect the speed/transition of frequencies. Materials in isolation can be used to help prevent this.

The TST is more audible like a speaker too, keep this in mind and it can be quite peaky/overbearing in around the 70-80Hz range. You can EQ these to reduce the amplitude they operate with. Remember DSP is for tuning how the unit operates within the users installation, it is not for tuning effects. What it does is rather simple but what it achieves can be beneficial to having a well configured tactile installation as to having a poor one.

What you can do with the iNuke is set small ranges of operation (via Crossover) in frequencies to determine better where the issue you have is. By running small bands of frequencies you can feel what (a sinewave is producing) or (all the Simvibe effects) you are using regards the Hz they are generating within each band. The DSP will only send the Hz within the band applied to the tactile and all other Hz are eliminated regadless of what effects are being used or output from Simvibe.

You will likely not feel much tactile sensation beyond 100Hz (seat/materials/rig dependent) When we approach this level the felt sensation is similar to a phone vibrating. Yet other Hz will overpower it so it can be harder to detect. Keep in mind (Pure Audio) is full of multiple frequencies generating many more harmonics but what we have here via basic tone generation is often going to have harmonics felt to the 2nd or 3rd order within the frequency range we are using. Texture effects can go well into the 1000s for Hz but these can also prove troublesome for some tactile (TST being more audible) in producing a distorted/crunch sound. Textures seem more like "Noise" than just tones, this I presume is why we cannot apply Hz values to them within Simvibe. Yet they are not the most required sensations anyways.

Indeed TST units do support up to 800Hz but that is more benefical for musical purposes.

I suggest you run only the TST if configuring it first.

Sometimes its also advised to actually learn to feel your unit in operation with test-tones and how different Hz respond. These forums have many discussions on doing this via online test-tone generators and using the primary soundcard temporarily for such.

Before Simvibe usage try doing "Sinewave Sweeps" of a start-end frequency range:
Learn how different Hz feel....

Try This
This
Or This

You may, for example, want to boost the 20-50Hz but trim the 70-80Hz with some minor tweaking above this all within EQ. If a unit is not producing many benefits say below 30Hz and above 90hz then reducing its operating range will greatly help to keep the unit functioning with much less workload. By reducing the workload you can also help to maintain its composure, reduced heat etc.

20Hz - 100Hz would be fine for a general operating range to work with. Get somebodys recommended Simvibe Profile or settings of effects but then use the below (band tests) to determine HOW well effects (singular) and (combined) feel in each of the bands suggested. Comeback with notes. We can then look more into EQ and what Hz the TST feels best with.

Try tests with only 30Hz range steps with individual effects and then with all the effects you want to use together. Take notes of what feels good and what doesnt, also what if any reverb in the cockpit materials are present.

So for example:

• 10-40Hz
• 20-50Hz
• 30-60Hz
• 40-70Hz
• 50-80Hz
• 60-90Hz
• 70-100Hz
• 80-110Hz
• 90-120Hz
• 100-200Hz (to learn how little this brings)

When you find in cases more energy/power is desired, take note, where you find it annoying or aggressive with less desired energy/power also take note. We can't get a unit to go beyond its own operational performance abilities but what we can do is enhance the "source" to better suit a unit's performance/installation via DSP to be more tailored for our own preferences or individual installation. Those that say DSP is not needed or not beneficial, clearly have not good usage or perhaps understanding of it. My view is you paid for it, so make good use of it.

READ THE MANUAL learn how to " Store * Recall " presets on the iNuke software and use the "Wattage Limiter". You can then compare your units with optimised EQ and settings and then without.

As you mentioned "Lowpass at 120" & "Highpass at 800Hz", this does not make sense.
I assume this is a typo

What you can then do is repeat the same tests but with the ADX only and again take notes, find what settings suit it compared to the TST model. This will help you learn/understand the operation differences or preferences you have for the units in their different installed places.

Doing this, configuring and tuning via the iNuke will greatly help the operation of the units.
If you have reverb/pinging or external noise issues from the rig it may need some additional solutions.

 

[Mr Latte]

Speaking about DSP

Here is a rather new affordable 4 Channel INPUT
DSP hardware solution for standard amplifiers. It also can be controlled over Bluetooth by tablets/phones with the additional dongle.

I've had a look at the desktop software....

Appears to offer similar features to Behringer iNuke DSP "Remote Connect" software now being called "NX Edit" with the launch of the 2018 NX-000D amps previously shown.

 

[rparker]

As you mentioned "Lowpass at 120" & "Highpass at 800Hz", this does not make sense.
I assume this is a typo

thank you Mr. Latte for taking the time to help
no not a typo im just that stupid
my only experience with audio is i have a pioneer a/v receiver with 5.1 surround. i just plunged the setup mic in and it set up its self
i read the manual that come with the inuke a couple of times. its less than through to say the least. i cant see were it says how to limit the power. it doesnt enplane what to set the settings to and why. i had never heard of DSP amp until i read what you wrote about it. thats why i bought it.

the thing that gets me. when simvibe is not running. the vibration is solid no raddles
and no musical reving sounds .

i talked to a guy at parts exchange he told me this amp wont work with an unbalanced signal. and that i need an amp with RCA inputs and outputs with a built in cross over . this amp wont work either.

https://www.parts-express.com/crown-xli-800-power-amplifier-2-x-300w-at-4-ohms--245-5126.

could you take the time to tell me what to set the low and high pass to?
the guys at parts express told me to set the low at 100 for the TST, and 80 for the ADX. and the high pass to off. Then i guess i need to pick a type? butterworth or bessel or linkwitz?

i am confused as hell. it works fine with out simvibe. or close to what the hype seems to be anyway. you wrote the the inuke was a good way to go. now the tech guy says it wont work. maybe i could pay you for some of your time to help.
do you have a paypal account?

i am play around the the test tones you suggested now.
thanks agian

 

[Mr Latte]

thank you Mr. Latte for taking the time to help
no not a typo im just that stupid
my only experience with audio is i have a pioneer a/v receiver with 5.1 surround. i just plunged the setup mic in and it set up its self
i read the manual that come with the inuke a couple of times. its less than through to say the least. i cant see were it says how to limit the power. it doesnt enplane what to set the settings to and why. i had never heard of DSP amp until i read what you wrote about it. thats why i bought it.

the thing that gets me. when simvibe is not running. the vibration is solid no raddles
and no musical reving sounds .

i talked to a guy at parts exchange he told me this amp wont work with an unbalanced signal. and that i need an amp with RCA inputs and outputs with a built in cross over . this amp wont work either.

https://www.parts-express.com/crown-xli-800-power-amplifier-2-x-300w-at-4-ohms--245-5126.

could you take the time to tell me what to set the low and high pass to?
the guys at parts express told me to set the low at 100 for the TST, and 80 for the ADX. and the high pass to off. Then i guess i need to pick a type? butterworth or bessel or linkwitz?

i am confused as hell. it works fine with out simvibe. or close to what the hype seems to be anyway. you wrote the the inuke was a good way to go. now the tech guy says it wont work. maybe i could pay you for some of your time to help.
do you have a paypal account?

i am play around the the test tones you suggested now.
thanks agian

Keep in mind that this is a "prosumer product" its designed more for music producers or professionals that generally will know more about such audio related things. People often get mixed up with what a "Low pass" / "High pass" are. You seem to of got them backward is all with the settings you mentioned.

Its good to learn about the frequencies, thats why I always recommend people do Sinewave Sweeps. It helps the user determine what Hz represents in feel regards the tactile they are using and it not just being a rather meaningless slider value. Also when you relax and spend time looking/comparing what different settings in the iNuke do by its graphical representation it becomes for most things easier to grasp.

Yes, it needs proper coverage as such is a lot to take in for some people. I can likely create and save a preset for the amp to send you a link to download with instruction on how to load and save it from your PC into the amps internal memory.

"The Parts Express Tech Guy Says"

(See my cable guide and the linked videos on balanced cables)

The only issue I see with the cable you bought is that it is 3.5mm - Single Mono XLR
It's not a dual mono based cable with 2x XLR connections to contain 2 channels.

Note that Simvibe regards what your doing in using EM uses the Green & Black outputs.
Yet it supports 4 channels per soundcard used over CM/EM as each output contains 2 channels.

Regards EM:
Green = Seat & Shifter
Black = Wheel & Pedals

So in your case, can you confirm if the cable plugged into Green, which at the amp is plugged into Channel A. Do you get effects response from "Seat" only "Shifter" only or "Both"

With a 3.5mm - XLR Stereo cable. (like this)
What we would do, is plug the 3.5mm end into Green and then the twin XLR into Channel A and the other into Channel B. With this cable, one will represent the Seat and the other the Shifter.

You can install these to or where you like, the names are just for easy identification for the channel you are placing effects in Simvibe to where it is supposedly installed.

For instance, you don't need to connect another 3.5mm - Mono XLR into the Black soundcard output to use a unit for the pedals.

Can you confrim your cable connections and the test given for the green output. I think the misunderstanding with the cable first needs to be clarified.

 

[rparker]

Yes, it needs proper coverage as such is a lot to take in for some people. I can likely create and save a preset for the amp to send you a link to download with instruction on how to load and save it from your PC into the amps internal memory.

this would be great. rparker1866@yahoo.com
yes pluged into channel A. seat and shifter both hit in simvibe device manager.
one thing i dont understand. when i set it up in windows under the 5.1 and configure speakers. even though its plugged in to green left and right, "the gigabyte gamer 7 just calls it out" and center and sub are off. It hits sub the hardest in windows test tone Center and sub hasnt a cable plugged in it. "this is the creative labs recon 3di on board sound"

i did play around with the test tones and got a better idea of the frequencies . the ADX has no were near the range of the tst. but adjusting the cross overs in the inuke i couldn't tell any difference.

the thought of sending the tst back and get a BK-Advance has crossed my mined what do you think?

i have wondered if i have the wrong cables . something not right. again parts express guy. bless there hearts there really nice and helpful but maybe this inst there cup to tea so to speak.
and channel B for the ADX only hits pedals and wheel. in windows it hits RR and LR.

should i find the cables you mentioned, amazon USA does Not have them. they would have to be available somewhere.

i hope i have correctly done what you asked of me.
im not the sharpest tool in the tool shed yet when it comes to this

MANY MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND TIME

 

[Mr Latte]

this would be great. rparker1866@yahoo.com
yes pluged into channel A. seat and shifter both hit in simvibe device manager.
one thing i dont understand. when i set it up in windows under the 5.1 and configure speakers. even though its plugged in to green left and right, "the gigabyte gamer 7 just calls it out" and center and sub are off. It hits sub the hardest in windows test tone Center and sub hasnt a cable plugged in it. "this is the creative labs recon 3di on board sound"

i did play around with the test tones and got a better idea of the frequencies . the ADX has no were near the range of the tst. but adjusting the cross overs in the inuke i couldn't tell any difference.

the thought of sending the tst back and get a BK-Advance has crossed my mined what do you think?

i have wondered if i have the wrong cables . something not right. again parts express guy. bless there hearts there really nice and helpful but maybe this inst there cup to tea so to speak.
and channel B for the ADX only hits pedals and wheel. in windows it hits RR and LR.

should i find the cables you mentioned, amazon USA does Not have them. they would have to be available somewhere.

I hope i have correctly done what you asked of me.
im not the sharpest tool in the tool shed yet when it comes to this

MANY MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND TIME

Okay lets clarify things, give you plenty of detail but keep it simple...

Simvibe uses the main "Quad" channels, these being "Front" and "Rear" outputs of a soundcard. In EM mode it uses each as independent channels. In CM mode it uses them as "Front & Rear Stereo". See below that these are the "Green" & "Black".

It does not use the Cen/Sub "Orange" outputs or those of a 7.1 soundcard.
For some reason, it runs each card (if doing both CM & EM) in 4 Channel Quad mode.

Please do not use the onboard audio (Gigabyte Gamer 7 / Creative Soundcard) for Simvibe use.
I own same motherboard and had an issue with its output in multichannel usage. IIRC on each system bootup. It required going to the Creative soundcard menu and changing the output for the card from "Headphones" to "Speakers". This awoke the card properly, don't ask me why or if it was ever fixed but I recall this issue with it and using Simvibe.

For now please list the cards you have in the system and how they are being used or you plan to use (if expanding) at some point to use both CM & EM.

• Primary Audio Device
• Simvibe EM Soundcard
• Simvibe CM Soundcard

From this past test you did.....
You are confirming you got a response in Simvibe for BOTH "Seat" & "Shifter". So clearly the cable you have is not keeping these channels independent. It is sending the output of both channels to the amps input and out to the tactile unit on that single channel.



You should NOT get a response on the same individual tactile unit for these. Each channel should be for an individual tactile unit.


Cable Test (Part 2)

Lets clarify why this is wrong.

Simvibe Output Mixer
This is the screens within Simvibe for the different output sections (independent channels).
"CHASSIS" / "SEAT" / "SHIFTER" / "PEDALS" / "GEAR"

Within each of these we are to place the effects we want to be active. So if an effect is not placed and switched on in a section it will NOT generate a response in that section. The reason being these are to be treated as "independent channels". If we want an effect to be active in more than one section, then we manually have to build a layer with the effects/settings we want for that effect and switch it on, to also be active for that channel too.

Now to confirm the issue with the cable you currently have.....

Therefore if you run an actual Sim with Simvibe active and you have a single effect (lets say gearchange) placed in "SEAT" but not, in any of the above, other output sections. The effect is only placed in "SEAT" section.

Your current response, from within a sim should be feeling "Gear Change" active in "SEAT"
Yet if you place the effect now only in "SHIFTER" you will also feel it on the same tactile unit.

This should not be the case.....

The reason for this is not a Simvibe or Soundcard issue but simply because the cable being used is combining both the channels that the "Green" uses or the "Black" output uses. Keep in mind in this scenario, telemetry is generated to tactile but coming directly for a specific independent channel.


Differences With Soundcard AUDIO Tests:
From a "Soundcard Channel Test" then obviously if your cable was connected to the Cen/Sub output it would be active if clicking the "Cen" & "Sub" icons within the screen as it is combining the channels and not maintaining their independence. If you had it plugged into green for Left/Right then again it would be active when clicking either the "Left" & "Right" icons.

Important Note:
"Simvibe Channel Test" is like "Windows Audio Channel Test"
At this point, it is not using telemetry or effects from the Output Mixer but just generating a sound on the channels. When in a Sim and you are feeling effects, those ARE from telemetry and Simvibe fully operating with the Output Mixer it uses.

It is also not to be used to try and feel different Hz as the slider for altering this is faulty. Something I discovered and reported long ago and to my knowledge was never fixed. Note, I was shocked to find that some community beta testers for the software, did not even realise this or discover it was faulty. Even with them having access to the software months before its release and still many, many months later. In fact, nobody at all seemed to notice or discuss it in forums.

So the "Test" in Simvibe will not output accurate Hz as it appears to be doing, therefore do not use it for trying to do frequency tests. SimXperience, to my knowledge, never made this clear to the community, yet I found out talking with people in the community, that some people were using it to try an feel different frequencies like the websites I sent you links too. They did not even realise they were not feeling the Hz of what it was actually showing or that it was faulty.

Correct Cable
The cable you should be using should have an individual 1x 3,5mm connection but 2x connections for "Channel A" and "Channel B" going into the amp. This way you will maintain channel independence and for the two channels the soundcard output used represents.

As you only have 1x Amp = 2 Channels
You should not even be needing to use the "Black" output.
Regardless of the names given for the channels you simply have a "Pedal" & "Seat" based unit.
So the 2x independent channels contained within the single output connection will be for one and the other.

Green = Seat & Shifter
So use "Seat" for the "Seat Tactile". Yet you can use "Shifter" to represent your "Pedal Tactile" with one (correct cable). All you have to do is place effects in Simvibe for "Shifter" and they will be what goes to your "Pedals", so quite simple. Dont get too hung up over the "labels" given for channels, what matters is just placing the effects in the correct "Channel Output" required for how you are using it. If you want to place effects in "Shifter" but have this tactile unit stuck to a helmet on your head thats upto you (lol)



iNuke amps have a combo input so it can accept either "XLR" or "6.3mm Jack" inputs.
Therefore the cable you buy can be one of the following:

1x 3.5mm Jack Male - Dual 6.3mm Male
1x 3.5mm Jack Male - Dual XLR Male

See Here

You dont need to spend a fortune on a cable but should try to get a decent brand.

As for TST - ADX comparisons, you need to give more info where for you the units differ in performance or detail. Part of this may be your installation, why one unit is seemingly bringing more than the other.

 

[rparker]

starting to make sense. yes indeed i get feed back from both.

in the cable description it says..
" combines the left and right stereo signal from a source with 3.5mm stereo output to a single mono feed"
hell i didnt know just going buy the parts express guys. " NOT SAYING ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THEY ARE GREAT.. they will forever be the first place i look to buy something"

my other sound card is a sound blaster z. it runs my A/V receiver in another room with optical out..
then i use the asus strix 7.1 USB head set it has an external Amp
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-STRIX-7...rd_wg=2fzs0&psc=1&refRID=W1T8QP073ZDM5G24X06D..
I have to use a head set.that not a issue right?
theres not a cable plugged into center/sub.. " really double checked.. and double checked again" both creative cards hit the sub with the most force in windows.. even though there is not a cables plugged into center sub. The center wont sound off but the sub does"

i have room for 2 more cards. maybe i need to get the asus Xonar 5.1? sense these creative cards are being screwy
if this starts getting fun and Kool.. i could want more shakers. but its gotta get fun first

as i am starting grasping this. i need a feed to shake the seat. simvibe mapped that to the FL & FR channel. and i also need a feed from the RR & LR channel. that simvibe mapped to that specific channel to shake the pedals. these are separate feeds so the dont bleed into each other. so why do i only need 1 cable?
the sound card is in quadraphonic. thats 4 speakers right ? why only 2 speakers "or shakers in this case" shouldnt i be able to get 1 more two channel amp and run 4 shakers? LF LR RR RL

i tried to attach a few picture but 3.2 meg is to big. ill find my older camera a post some
your a life saver. with out your help i would have gave up. i wish i could email you a pint or two.

How this cable
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZKM3SDO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AKXVBT49GGF3B&psc=1

 

[anton_Chez]

Just open the file in Paint, reduce the size by 50%, save it and it should then be small enough to attach. That's what I had to do for all my build log pics. Worked great and the photos are still easily large enough to see.

 

[Mr Latte]

Cable you linked seems fine.
As for soundcards, personally, I use an Asus DGX for (SSW / Simvibe) and a Soundblaster Omni (USB) for Primary Audio.

I found the Omni to be a better card/software EQ solution than the Asus U5 (USB) model. I was curious so bought both to compare.

One of the main differences with SSW compared to Simvibe is that it can support 6 Channels with a single soundcard but it has a max of 6 channels and not 8. However, really it's all about the effects and the quality of effects that matters and the users own preferences.


More Toys
For my own rig ideas, I continue to seek to push the operation and control. Taking advantage of custom created effects for SSW which currently, on my own hardware, are working really splendid. Also enjoying these, when combined with the "audio-tactile" for what each offers. As such I am still in the early stages of exploring the possibilities.

I want as much control as possible, so with that in mind here is the next bit of hardware that's coming soon to continue this pursuit. It will help control the desired mix for each of the 6 channels of both SSW & Audio combined for the tactile, with nice visual references in its LED indicators. Thus highlighting potential audio clipping that cant be seen via typical methods or solutions.

Nice looking bit of kit.....
Behringer Powerplay HA6000

 

[rparker]

ok thanks ive got the cable and a asus card coming.
what should i set the cross overs at?
do you know of a article or a video that explains the oppertions of the inuke amps?
i would like to know hoe and why to set the filters and the dynamic eg
thanks

 

[Mr Latte]

ok thanks ive got the cable and a asus card coming.
what should i set the cross overs at?
do you know of a article or a video that explains the oppertions of the inuke amps?
i would like to know hoe and why to set the filters and the dynamic eg
thanks

This gives a general explanation for some of the iNUke DSP features.

I would prefer to help take you through a process but let you report back and then move to the next stage. This way people viewing this thread can perhaps learn more as well.

Learning To Understand A Frequency Chart
The below to me is very clear regards the orange and blue for channels (A) and (B)
We see what filter is applied to each channel with the settings for each but notice how the slopes vary greatly in how higher frequencies will fade or drop off. Simply because one uses only 6dB and the other 48dB.

With the "High Pass" set to off then we avoid losing any slope to the lowest frequencies.
A user however may want a very different curve but this is easy to apply by entering different values.

Changing the settings shows exactly how it will alter the way frequencies are controlled.
Spend some time just learning and seeing what it does.



Using Simvibe as a source is not ideal to configure frequencies for a tactile unit. Test tones, allow you to easily repeat or feel variations in specific frequencies. Also to feel a frequency with higher or lower dB applied. Much is learned if we just spend some time getting familiar with these factors.

Most common tactile will operate well from 30-90Hz often the 40-60Hz will bring the strongest sensations. Yet this is not the case with more upmarket tactile that perhaps fewer users own or purchase.


Tactile Tuning
The advice I give to people, is to first get accustomed to feeling/understanding different frequencies by using the sinewave tone generators. If we are going to do things that modify the audio then we should at least try to grasp the basics in what we are dealing with.

Some people have been using Simvibe with virtually no understanding of Hz or how the unit they own actually handles or operates with different frequencies. I have seen profiles I downloaded in that people had frequencies poorly used for certain effects, for example with "big" / "sml" bumps. They often have these reversed or they have much too little difference in Hz values between what represents each.

Something perhaps few others considered but for me it was important, when first looking into Simvibe was to take note of how its default settings for effects compared. As this I believe is the only "SimXperience" based profile that was done. Yet there should be some reason (from the understanding of the software's operation) as to why we see such differences in values between the effects being given but also in some cases why specific Hz are perhaps used as well.

Overview Of Simvibe Default Effects Settings
​

*Example @ 2014. * The above default settings Simvibe uses may have changed?​

Noted Points Of Interest:

• Notice that the differences in Big/Sml values is quite large, to help ensure each has a very different sensation.
• Effects "Big" values are always represented with using lower frequencies with more bass energy.
• We see 35Hz - 90Hz operating range for the (center values) of frequencies being used with many effects.
• Most common tactile operate well within this range it is by no accident these values are the ones used.
• Engine/Harmonics use a larger scale for the RPM but what the user feels below 30Hz depends on thier tactile used.
• Let's keep in mind, for default settings their is only 55Hz of range for multiple effects to work within.
• Note, however, that frequencies still work beyond the center values. These are often called (surrounding frequencies)
• Default settings in Simvibe also seemed to be avoiding low Hz usage.
• This potentially to help avoid issues with (piston pang) regards the Mini LFE that they promoted and used?
• Several effects use very similar frequencies, surely this can only result in similar sensations being generated?
• Sensitivity is high for several effects, with priority but lowering between Suspension Bumps - Vertical Surges - Road Bumps.

Some users may move a bit from the "Default Settings" but we see something very apparent that, several different effects were also using very similar Hz. My thoughts were, how could they then bring much variation in their own character or felt sensations? Yet this is illustrated by users that begin to drop several effects for the (less is more attitude). As they find more clarity or definition of using less effects. It seems apparent that the "Tone Generation" with a limited operating frequency range and having so many potential effects to work within is just too confined. Especially when we see how much difference in frequencies is given between an effects sml/big values.

One solution for this limited operating range is by using more capable tactile units. Particularly those that can operate well below 35Hz effectively, therefore, increases the operating frequency range to the user and enables them to transfer specific effects to use much lower Hz values. This in turn then means other effects can use frequencies that help give them more "individual character" than several effects all feeling similar. The "Less Is More" perception by some is not always the solution. What is important is understanding what the issue is and how to then maximise or determine which effects should use what frequencies or in what priority we should consider giving to them. Much however with tactile can also be personal preference.


Understanding Center Values & Surrounding Frequencies
I have covered this before but will highlight it again this time for the purpose of giving more understanding to Simvibe.

Green line is the "Center Value" of the given frequency.
The frequencies to either side of the line are "Surrounding Frequencies" that are also generated. When you enter in a value for an effect, then this is what happens. More than the actual value given will be produced and give a response. Increased dB can also affect what Hz are within the slope of the frequency.

Two examples:
See the frequencies listed for the L/R sides


Do you see that 10Hz in this example is showing activity for 30Hz at -3dB
The reason for this is not just (surrounding frequencies) but also harmonics being generated from the 10Hz frequency.

So a user inputting 10Hz for an effect thinking they are only feeling 10Hz is perhaps uninformed as to how audio works. If a unit will not produce much energy from the 10Hz (center value) it is possible the user will feel the energy from its accumulated surrounding frequencies and generated harmonics at 20Hz and 30Hz.



Notice how slim these are in comparison. The reason because they have much less energy/bandwidth in being higher frequencies. Also we can see small spikes of harmonics present but with higher frequencies, these then are much further apart.

This is one important reason, in the way audio works that quite large differences are used for the "Big" and "Sml" values for effects. If we do not apply at least 25Hz variation between them, then each is going to begin to feel similar in response. The reason being they will partly share the same (before/after) surrounding frequencies of the center values given.

I see this as one restriction Simvibe has in its tone generation limitations. When we compare to being able to develop very different and if desired more complexed feeling sensations for individual effects with waveform files for SSW.


Crossover To Use?
What a user should be trying to understand is quite simple. I gave you examples in doing tests by setting 30Hz bands to feel how the units you own were operating. To take notes on what Hz may of felt good or those that perhaps do not.

The goal of this for the user is to determine:

• What's the lowest Hz their unit shows a decent response from with adequate energy?
• What's the highest Hz their unit produces, yet still sustains good energy or detail?
• What specific range of Hz have a peak or feel stronger with the unit being used?

These above factors should help determine what "Crossover" the user could use and from within that lowest-highest range. Additionally paying attention as to which Hz are also the strongest or peak within its working range. It is here you will be discovering the operational character of one unit to another.

As what is the point with tactile of having the amp send to the tactile very low frequencies it cannot really generate or indeed high frequencies that offer little benefit to the tactile sensation they offer.

What you can do, is to try this for yourself and come back with the results you find for each unit. Next, then comes working with the EQ.

Wattage Limiter
Please also set your A/B channels to the correct Ohm and determine the PEAK wattage for each channel with the amps digital wattage control. What are the recommended wattages for the units you own?

Doing this, for example, will limit the wattage that goes from the amp to your unit, meaning you will not damage a unit that has a recommended 50W usage by sending it much more wattage.

EDIT : Improvements added