Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

The M4 amp and the budget soundcard are quite decent performers. These coupled with the transducers they are offering could perform fairly well for the money involved. The springs are very similar to Mason Industries packaged solutions that are often used with machinery/industrial installations.

The query I have based on the impression, "I get from this". While its purpose applies isolation of the tactile for the whole rig's frame. To the average person, it may appear to represent suspension for a sim rig to replicate the suspension of the car in game?

If that's the impression others get, then is it perhaps a bit misleading?

The tactile vibrations (even with only using suspension-based effects) will not and cannot accurately replicate the positional movement of the suspension from a sim. The generated vibrations will not cause your sim rig to physically move in tandem. Tactile should not be perceived like a motion rig and this is not some form of tactile motion but I believe some will see it like that.

Additionally, a user would be applying various other effects like gear/rpm that are non-positional and would be mixed with any positional-based effects for the 4 corners. So even if tactile could achieve some form of movement/reaction with the springs, as a source it is corrupted by other effects.

In the video, they talk about reducing the weight to improve the tactile sensation felt.

In this aspect they are correct....
Lets make something very simple to understand, we feel tactile with our bodies. Primarily in the seat and in the pedal regions. Any units placed on corners is not the most effective and are actually not that efficient. Why?

The primary energy from the units, is not going directly into your body, nor is the best detail from the output of the unit. Instead, most of it will be going into the rig frame and any effects vibrations will freely disperse as well as mix.

So, they will not maintain the positional placement of 4 corners. This is something that is often misunderstood in having units at 4 corners the user "often believes" they will feel perfect and independent output from each tyre/wheel/suspension.

Sorry to say, but this is not the case as the output of the L/R effects will combine before you even likely get to feel any stereo sensations. How we best apply stereo sensations is with direct-to-body applications. Exciters on seats, on pedals or motors on pedals are examples. We need to feel the primary energy from a positional unit before it starts to flow into other objects/materials. Even then it will do this but this is why closer proximity 1-1 contact with the "vibrated surface/object" and "our body regions" will help produce more satisfaction from your tactile.

I would very much advise that you keep the isolators attached to the rig for secondary isolation to help prevent vibes going into the floor but move and consider instead to install the tactile directly to a plate that is attached to the seat and pedal regions.

What does help improve tactile is to first ensure its primary output/detail is going into a surface that your body is in contact with. To help maintain those vibrations, it is then tried/tested/proven that isolating both the seat and the pedal platforms in some way (better options = improved detail/energy maintained) within these isolated platforms for seat/pedals sections.

I would be 99% certain doing this would improve what you are feeling from the tactile, and also do so with reduced volume. The weight of only your seat/pedal sections (where you feel the tactile) is much less than the weight of the rig...

Benefits Of Isolated Seat/Pedal Platforms:
1: Lighter / less mass than the rig frame
2: More efficient / less amplification needed
3: Improved energy/feel of the transducers peak output, and more detail with reduced bandwidth/higher frequencies

 

[avatariogaruda]

The M4 amp and the budget soundcard are quite decent performers. These coupled with the transducers they are offering could perform fairly well for the money involved. The springs are very similar to Mason Industries packaged solutions that are often used with machinery/industrial installations.

The query I have based on the impression, "I get from this". While its purpose applies isolation of the tactile for the whole rig's frame. To the average person, it may appear to represent suspension for a sim rig to replicate the suspension of the car in game?

If that's the impression others get, then is it perhaps a bit misleading?

The tactile vibrations (even with only using suspension-based effects) will not and cannot accurately replicate the positional movement of the suspension from a sim. The generated vibrations will not cause your sim rig to physically move in tandem. Tactile should not be perceived like a motion rig and this is not some form of tactile motion but I believe some will see it like that.

Additionally, a user would be applying various other effects like gear/rpm that are non-positional and would be mixed with any positional-based effects for the 4 corners. So even if tactile could achieve some form of movement/reaction with the springs, as a source it is corrupted by other effects.

In the video, they talk about reducing the weight to improve the tactile sensation felt.

In this aspect they are correct....
Lets make something very simple to understand, we feel tactile with our bodies. Primarily in the seat and in the pedal regions. Any units placed on corners is not the most effective and are actually not that efficient. Why?

The primary energy from the unit is not going directly into your body, nor is the best detail from the output of the unit. Instead, it appears with this most of it will be going into the rig frame, where it will freely disperse and mix. It will not maintain the positional placement of 4 corners. This is something that is often misunderstood in having units at 4 corners the user "often believes" they will feel perfect and independent output only from each tyre/wheel.

Sorry to say, but this is not the case as the output of the L/R effects will combine before you even likely get to feel any stereo sensations. How we best apply stereo sensations is with direct-to-body applications. Exciters on seats, on pedals or motors on pedals are examples. We need to feel the primary energy from a positional unit before it starts to flow into other objects/materials. Even then it will do this but this is why closer proximity 1-1 contact with the "vibrated surface/object" and "our body regions" will help produce more satisfaction from your tactile.

I would very much advise that you keep the isolators attached to the rig for secondary isolation to help prevent vibes going into the floor but move and consider instead to install the tactile directly to a plate that is attached to the seat and pedal regions.

What does help improve tactile is to first ensure its primary output/detail is going into a surface that your body is in contact with. To help maintain those vibrations, it is then tried/tested/proven that isolating both the seat and the pedal platforms in some way (better options = improved detail/energy maintained) within these isolated platforms for seat/pedals sections.

I would be 99% certain doing this would improve what you are feeling from the tactile, and also do so with reduced volume.

I have a buttkicker gamer 2 on a v3 motion platform on a GTTrack rig.

The GTTrack has optional extra bars to attach the shifter to on either side of the seat, I could install the brackets included with the slip angle kit to those extra bars and leave slack in the audio cables for the v3's movement (or run the cables close to the hinge point below the V3 to keep the movement offset to a minimum).

How would you recommend mounting the transducers below the pedal plate? I have seen some interesting ideas, like mounting to wood then the wood to the plate, but I was thinking if the rig is on the springs I might have enough clearance to mount the transducers to the included brackets and install those at 90 degrees below the pedal plate on the far extremes to the left and right to try and increase the stereo separation.

Also, do you think 3 transducers attached to the seat (one on either side and one below) be too many to decern directional queues?

 

[Mr Latte]

I have a buttkicker gamer 2 on a v3 motion platform on a GTTrack rig.

The GTTrack has optional extra bars to attach the shifter to on either side of the seat, I could install the brackets included with the slip angle kit to those extra bars and leave slack in the audio cables for the v3's movement (or run the cables close to the hinge point below the V3 to keep the movement offset to a minimum).

How would you recommend mounting the transducers below the pedal plate? I have seen some interesting ideas, like mounting to wood then the wood to the plate, but I was thinking if the rig is on the springs I might have enough clearance to mount the transducers to the included brackets and install those at 90 degrees below the pedal plate on the far extremes to the left and right to try and increase the stereo separation.

Also, do you think 3 transducers attached to the seat (one on either side and one below) be too many to decern directional queues?

I don't want to solely try to tell you what to do or consider.

What you will see, for those that went into tactile with the higher-end hardware is that very few will rely on 4way installations. Most will seek to isolate the seat and pedals. Also, the quality and performance of the transducer used may bring more benefits than two budget models but tactile like other things has gone up in price...

There have also been owners of VR3 here in the past that did modifications, so see perhaps the search for those threads...

The latest approach with tactile that many are now following is to apply multiple exciter units to a seat. Then you can add with these other units under the seat/platform.

A combination of direct to body contact (with upto 8 small exciter units on a seat) and then applying additional (better-performing hardware for low bass) to work with that. All with their own specifically created effects is in the works.

It won't be for sale but is d.i.y and community-based....

 

[avatariogaruda]

I don't want to solely try to tell you what to do or consider.

What you will see, for those that went into tactile with the higher-end hardware is that very few will rely on 4way installations. Most will seek to isolate the seat and pedals. Also, the quality and performance of the transducer used may bring more benefits than two budget models but tactile like other things has gone up in price...

There have also been owners of VR3 here in the past that did modifications, so see perhaps the search for those threads...

The latest approach with tactile that many are now following is to apply multiple exciter units to a seat. Then you can add with these other units under the seat/platform.

A combination of direct to body contact (with upto 8 small exciter units on a seat) and then applying additional (better-performing hardware for low bass) to work with that. All with their own specifically created effects is in the works.

It won't be for sale but is d.i.y and community-based....

Well, based on my short time in this community you are seemingly regarded as the eldest and wisest member, so it wouldn't make sense to ignore the advice of someone with experience and knowledge. So while I admire your modesty, I will be seeking to isolate the tactile to my pedal deck and seat.

The GTTrack looked like a much more user friendly install base for sim racing when i bought it several years ago, but has been the ire of my existence thus far. Any benefit of a ready to go solution is negated by the necessity of DIY solutions in this hobby...

That said, I have exhausted the pool of patience and budget set by my wife so I am not going to invest in an AE rig anytime soon and will have to make due with the GTTrack.

If you could advise me where to find others reports of TTFB modifications on GTTrack units that would be very helpful indeed, as thus far my searches have been fruitless...

One direct question I can't find an answer to is... does adding dampening material between the tactile unit and the rig have any benefit?

I get that isolating the individual parts of the rig. like the seat and pedal deck reduces their mass and therefore is easier to move, and i will definitely look into a way to move my pedal plate to rubber isolators, but what about the way the transducers are mounted to the pedal deck and seat?

It would seem the extra leverage afforded to the transducer would allow for larger movements with less energy spent as noise and heat, but could also just absolutely trash the accuracy of the frequency response.

for instance if i were to use a set of rubber washers between the mounting bracket and GTTrack, would that increase the sensations because of the extra movement range provided to the transducer or dampen the effect due to the rubber muting the energy intended to travel through the rig...

Tell me what to do or consider Oh wise one!

Oh, and Thank you in advance and for the input thus far!

 

[avatariogaruda]

Hopefully I didn't offend or irritate Mr. Latte, seemed like a good bit of back and forth for a minute, then nothing. If so, please accept my apology.

Can anyone chime in about the way the transducers are mounted to the rig (pedal deck and seat [using rubber or wood between them])

Does mounting the device to a softer surface material allow for more movement with more leverage, or does it cause them to lose accuracy or effectiveness.

My kit is due to arrive in the near future and I'd like to know so I can start planning on mounting options, and buy the Rubber/wood in preparation for mounting them (if thats the better option).

 

[metalnwood]

Hopefully I didn't offend or irritate Mr. Latte, seemed like a good bit of back and forth for a minute, then nothing. If so, please accept my apology.

Can anyone chime in about the way the transducers are mounted to the rig (pedal deck and seat [using rubber or wood between them])

Does mounting the device to a softer surface material allow for more movement with more leverage, or does it cause them to lose accuracy or effectiveness.

My kit is due to arrive in the near future and I'd like to know so I can start planning on mounting options, and buy the Rubber/wood in preparation for mounting them (if thats the better option).

No, he's not always reading all the time, I doubt he just blew you off.

I can tell you what I have just been through if its of any use to you as far as the pedals.

I did have an lfe and a tst on my pedal deck, that was the thick aluminium plate as well as the HE ultimate pedals on top, all mounted on spring isolators.

I moved things around a little and am happy so far, I hard mounted the pedals so that there is no flex from them and now have an isolated pedal tray sitting in front, just some 18mm plywood with a single TST mounted underneath. I moved the LFE that I thought was not being used to its potential there with my other one under the seat.

As expected, without the weight of the heavy pedals/pedaltray the tst is more punchy through the heel tray. It doesnt need the LFE to give the heavier punches as its basically right under your feet moving very little mass compared to the entire pedal assembly.

Also things like rpm come through your heels better because once again, they are in frequencies that have a harder time dealing with a larger mass of the entire pedal assembly.

There is a downside - that is everything comes through your heels and and some transfers through to the face of the pedals but if you do something like heavy braking and your heel lifts off the pedal tray then you may notice that you lose any tactile feeling in the pedal face. I can still feel rpm through the throttle as your whole foot is 'vibrating' and you feel that in the pedal face.

I did want to fix that though so ordered 4 of the new exciters with the new mounting scheme, these ones
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ole-Exciter-30mm-40W-4-Ohm-295-241?quantity=1

I will mount two on to each of throttle and brake. I imagine i will get more coming direct through the pedal face than I had with the lfe and tst and better still I can balance it, so lock can be dialed in at the brake rather than having it rattle the whole pedal assembly.

Current arrangement is like this for pedals

 

[avatariogaruda]

No, he's not always reading all the time, I doubt he just blew you off.

I can tell you what I have just been through if its of any use to you as far as the pedals.

I did have an lfe and a tst on my pedal deck, that was the thick aluminium plate as well as the HE ultimate pedals on top, all mounted on spring isolators.

I moved things around a little and am happy so far, I hard mounted the pedals so that there is no flex from them and now have an isolated pedal tray sitting in front, just some 18mm plywood with a single TST mounted underneath. I moved the LFE that I thought was not being used to its potential there with my other one under the seat.

As expected, without the weight of the heavy pedals/pedaltray the tst is more punchy through the heel tray. It doesnt need the LFE to give the heavier punches as its basically right under your feet moving very little mass compared to the entire pedal assembly.

Also things like rpm come through your heels better because once again, they are in frequencies that have a harder time dealing with a larger mass of the entire pedal assembly.

There is a downside - that is everything comes through your heels and and some transfers through to the face of the pedals but if you do something like heavy braking and your heel lifts off the pedal tray then you may notice that you lose any tactile feeling in the pedal face. I can still feel rpm through the throttle as your whole foot is 'vibrating' and you feel that in the pedal face.

I did want to fix that though so ordered 4 of the new exciters with the new mounting scheme, these ones
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ole-Exciter-30mm-40W-4-Ohm-295-241?quantity=1

I will mount two on to each of throttle and brake. I imagine i will get more coming direct through the pedal face than I had with the lfe and tst and better still I can balance it, so lock can be dialed in at the brake rather than having it rattle the whole pedal assembly.

Current arrangement is like this for pedals

That's cleaver! It does give me some ideas. Thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

Well, based on my short time in this community you are seemingly regarded as the eldest and wisest member, so it wouldn't make sense to ignore the advice of someone with experience and knowledge. So while I admire your modesty, I will be seeking to isolate the tactile to my pedal deck and seat.

The GTTrack looked like a much more user friendly install base for sim racing when i bought it several years ago, but has been the ire of my existence thus far. Any benefit of a ready to go solution is negated by the necessity of DIY solutions in this hobby...

That said, I have exhausted the pool of patience and budget set by my wife so I am not going to invest in an AE rig anytime soon and will have to make due with the GTTrack.

If you could advise me where to find others reports of TTFB modifications on GTTrack units that would be very helpful indeed, as thus far my searches have been fruitless...

One direct question I can't find an answer to is... does adding dampening material between the tactile unit and the rig have any benefit?

I get that isolating the individual parts of the rig. like the seat and pedal deck reduces their mass and therefore is easier to move, and i will definitely look into a way to move my pedal plate to rubber isolators, but what about the way the transducers are mounted to the pedal deck and seat?

It would seem the extra leverage afforded to the transducer would allow for larger movements with less energy spent as noise and heat, but could also just absolutely trash the accuracy of the frequency response.

for instance if i were to use a set of rubber washers between the mounting bracket and GTTrack, would that increase the sensations because of the extra movement range provided to the transducer or dampen the effect due to the rubber muting the energy intended to travel through the rig...

Tell me what to do or consider Oh wise one!

Oh, and Thank you in advance and for the input thus far!

Been busy, but I have a nice long reply.....

I'm not sure of people with the same rig as yourself but the reference I made to searching was VR3-related. Although two of those members I helped, both used rigs that were AE based. Most sim rig frames are quite narrow and that's a good reason/example also why it's so easy for the energy of L/R units from a corners installation to transverse over the frame to combine within the pedals/seat supports. Stereo effects can be better applied in a seat, having individual exciter units or motors on pedals can bring some nice immersion but as you move your feet then you won't always feel certain sensations properly/fully.

Nice to have some form of tactile representation in the pedals but I advise placing more focus on the seat first.

An example would be rather than buy a 4-way installation with budget units like you have, to work towards recommending people buy into a multi-exciter config for a seat first, and then compliment this with an additional TST or BK.

This also isn't ideal for everyone depending on their seat but I would expect the current 8x EXC installation and the effects I have been working on, will be much better in immersion and at handling multiple effects at once than what you currently have.

If you have a typical tub seat, that can accept exciter installations that would be my recommendation in how you should proceed and isolate your seat at least as a direction to go in. Then possibly seek to sell some or all of your 4x budget transducers to replace these with a large BK for the seat. Having 1 or 2 in the pedal platform might still be nice but really it depends on if you want to work towards a more scalable installation for tactile you can build upon which is pretty much what my own approach is about.

Why I recommend both BK/TST for seat and pedals is down to simple factors regards effects and what we can achieve.

1. With large BK we can achieve more dynamic range in effects creation with enjoyable low bass. Also, certain felt sensations or energy, that can be implemented into effects cannot be achieved without it or on other units. The large Earthquake model is still quite good but a BK Advance (BK Pro) is not that good below 10Hz.

2. With TST its best performance is ideal with frequencies we can apply as octaves and harmonics. We can achieve the best general detail in these over a wider frequency range compared to most other units. Combined with large BK these two units make one of the best combos for producing the lowest-highest frequencies bass offers. Exciters bring the role of having many more additional channels that go direct into body regions. Again this is something not really possible with traditional installation approaches. When we combine all these elements with specifically created effects layers, then we can achieve a level of tactile that is well beyond the normal approaches.

3. My own approach very much follows this rule....
I was one of the first to implement the concept of building effects with multi-layering and using specific units abilities for specific effects operations/ouput.

When we seek to build better effects, we do not need to constantly rely on a single unit or channel to generate all the frequencies an effect may have. This is a major difference to the traditional approach with tactile that most use.

Having a single unit very much reduces how well it will handle multiple effects layers or multiple types of effects operating at once. Also, that unit has its own operational character/performance with various frequencies and its own limitations in performance. Two types of units operating together have clear advantages but you need effects created in ways to make the most from both of them.

4. Even a BK/TST combo has limits when we start to supply these with more advanced layers in effects. Especially when we combine the more active or constant/operational effects like (speed/rpm/slip). So it's also fair to say that a seat with more than one BK/TST combo can apply or do things with improvements in immersion for effects.

5. I want to find a way beyond those limitations with an affordable tactile solution. So with my own continued, private development this year for effects. This is where having 8x exciters on a seat makes improvements in how to much better experience and enjoy multiple effects operating at once over the back/sides of a seat.

Please note, it is not hard to produce nice effects for budget tactile, using a limited range of effect layers, the problem is when you start to go beyond 3-4 types of effects. For a range of units that typically only operate well within 30-80Hz and from this, they are strongest @ 35-55Hz it does not give a lot of room to try to run that many effects at once or for the effects to have many variations at felt character/sensation. When we try to add more effects then it becomes a mash (frequency overlapping and frequency modulation) creating more "vibrational mush" than detailed individual sensations. Having 8x channels on a seat helps us come up with better ways to route/map different effects or partial layers of the effects to the different units. So you can place certain effects to set channels or have an effect use multiple channels. The options give us various ways to be creative.

Since Simhub Shakeit, arrived, I have over 900 saved profiles, these are based on my own private testing/learning with and for effects comparisons. From that personal research, which is over 3000 hours, what I can say with some confidence is, I have a fair idea now, on how we can build pretty nice feeling effects. Yet still even now, in my own continued research, during 2022 I have found an improved understanding regards how we can not only build but also apply effects, using the configuration I have worked on. I have also deeply looked into multiple soundcard settings and how the different options within Simhub operate. This also includes spending time learning, how different effects/options within Simhub for the various effects can be altered. The potential this software offers with some creativity is amazing.

Can I ask you to do me a favour to highlight what "effects" you get provided with the package you ordered? Let me guess they are quite basic and most operate within the 40-60Hz range?


Cheapo/Basic Seat & Pedal Base Isolation?
With budget/basic transducers you will often find people using the cheapo isolators found on eBay but these only offer rather limited isolation. Look around, see what others have done to modify rigs like you own but it's perhaps not worth spending a great deal on modifications as you may be better off focusing on working towards an AE-type rig that is easily modified.

You don't want anything between the transducer and the surface/objects your pedals and seats are mounted to. Pedals can be tricky as again so many different types of rigs and types of pedals. It is possible to do things like have inverted pedals and a transducer(s) located to a frame for the pedal stems to receive the primary output from the units into pedal stems. Then have an isolated footrest or pedal platform and this with its own tactile underneath.

For certain effects, we may not really want to feel vibrations intended for the front at the rear/seat and vice versa as we can generate individual effects for these regions or intended wheels/suspension.


Good luck...

 

[DaveOM]

Phew. I just finished reading from page 100. What a ride!

I bought the slip-angle.com 4-corner M4/BST-1 with isolators package (~$550 shipped), and I've added an Earthquake MQB-1 (on sale at $136. It's so tiny!). I'm an 80:20 kinda guy - I aim to get 80% of the performance for 20% of the cost. With that in mind, this is ~$750 worth of tactile VR immersion upgrade and I absolutely love it. Is it as good as several-$1000 of BK/TST/EXC/N1000D/DSP/etc.? Nope. Do I care? Nope. Am I interested in any debate about it? Nooope. Can I see upgrade paths towards BKs/TSTs/N*EXC/DSP/amplifiers? Of course.

Feel free to ask questions.

The household isolation of the spring mounts is excellent. My RigMetal Basic 8020 rig is on a bare wood floor, beside a bedroom, over a bedroom. I'm told that they can tell the rig is running, but it's not annoying.

Here's my perception of the 4-corner performance: Does it feel like suspension? No. Can I tell front from rear? Yes. Can I tell left from right? At the rear, yes absolutely. These are mounted to the rig just at my hips, and it's easy to tell left from right as I pass over a kerb for example. At the front, not so much, but I had to move the shakers "inboard" to fit my location. My pedal deck is not further isolated, so these front shakers do get felt at the front. I run Simhub 4-corner Idle RPMs/Road Vibration/Road Rumble/Wheel Slip to those.

I screwed the MQB-1 directly into the bottom of my junkyard car seat and used $15 rubber isolators. In VR, I absolutely cannot feel any additional squish or movement in the seat, even though I'm sure they are moving a few mm or something. The upholstery on my seat is probably compressing a few mm. $15. Just sayin'.

The MQB-1 is currently woefully underpowered by a 50W amp I already had lying around but still gives some nice low vibes into the seat. Aiyima A07 amp upgrade is on order for $70. I have also ordered a Dayton Thruster in the hope of adding some high-frequency energy approaching redline using a suitable Simhub RPM layer. I ordered the interchangeable type with some additional mounts so I can try several locations without worrying about the tape. I'll try the seat first, then maybe the pedal deck. I'm hoping for some buzzy "high cam" excitement as the revs build. We'll see. I run certain iRacing mono LFE signals (Engine, Gear, Rev Limiter and Rumble) to the MQB-1, merged with the Idle RPMs from Simhub. Soooo much tuning to get the Simhub and iRacing LFE levels aligned but well worth it.

I also added iRFFB at the same time for some increased suspension and understeer feedback on my CSL Elite wheel.

For what I paid, I have seriously upgraded my VR experience and I'm delighted with it.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

@DaveOM, what are you using for seat/pedals isolation, looks like some sort of rubber bobbins?
I have had great results with this solution, running it for over a year already, works absolutely perfect, the best part that it does not make seat wobbly like other rubber isolators and you can adjust stiffness by cranking down the bolt.
There is a video of them in action under heavy braking.

 

[avatariogaruda]

I received my Slip-angle kit as well. Took 2 days short of a month. One package came from China, shipment handled by DHL, the other was UPS and came from the US. The US package contained the Transducers and was drop-shipped from Parts express.

I was not informed that the kit would be two different shipments so I thought I got scammed and started a fraud case and reached out to the Seller, he responded after hours and explained the second package situation and provided the tracking information.

It was 3 days between shipments arriving.

I have a Next Level Racing GT Track Rig, and have a Motion platform v3 installed on it (different story with that [arrived defective; worked for 3 hours, still working to get it replaced])

I took the advice of Mr. Latte and added 2/4 of the transducers to my seat via the mounting arms for HOTAS/shifters and 2/4 on the Pedal tray. I bought several sized rubber washers and used them between the top and bottom of the bolts to hold the pedal tray to the Rig, not ideal ,but honestly it is working well enough.

For the 3 hours the NLR v3 motion platform was working with the Buttkicker Gamer 2 and the slip-angle transducers It was great, honestly I will be changing the pedal platform to have better isolation eventually, because it is obvious how much it will help, However it was still great. I am not disappointed at all...

Unlike DaveOM, my slip-angle springs had the labels applied at a 45 and look sloppy as hell, it is VERY clear nothing other than the metal brackets are manufactured by the company and it is a collection of parts from ali-express and Parts Express, but despite that, it was still easier than placing those many orders and tracking them separately.

I will be removing the labels and painting the isolating springs before installing them on my rig, but I'm still glad to have received them.

The directional separation at the pedal tray is basically non-existent, but on the seat it is very clear. I might be cutting the tray in half and mounting the pedals to the tray via isolators to see if I can get better stereo separation.

Anyone on the fence about ordering from Slip-Angle, I can say it is not an amazing value parts-wise; you will spend a lot more than ordering the parts separately. You will not save a lot of time as it took a month to get them.

That Said. The company was good to deal with, had great costumer service, and if you are looking for an easy solution to get into TTFB then its not a bad option. the sensations are significantly better than a stock BK and are WAY cheaper than going all out on larger units.

Pictures to follow once all my modifications are completed and I rebuilt my rig after replacing my busted ass v3... (not looking forward to ripping the entire rig apart AGAIN!)

 

[DaveOM]

@DaveOM, what are you using for seat/pedals isolation, looks like some sort of rubber bobbins?
I have had great results with this solution, running it for over a year already, works absolutely perfect, the best part that it does not make seat wobbly like other rubber isolators and you can adjust stiffness by cranking down the bolt.
There is a video of them in action under heavy braking.

I used these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5FJRK7C/, size M8*20*25*25mm. I was mistaken, they were only $12. I only have them on the seat, the pedals have no further isolation. The upper female internal thread is only 8mm deep, so I had to order some shorter bolts.

I had seen your neoprene version @Andrew_WOT, and I was planning to try that next if these didn't work out, but as mentioned, I simply cannot tell from within VR, so I'm happy with these.

 

[DaveOM]

I received my Slip-angle kit as well. Took 2 days short of a month. One package came from China, shipment handled by DHL, the other was UPS and came from the US. The US package contained the Transducers and was drop-shipped from Parts express.
[. . .]
Anyone on the fence about ordering from Slip-Angle, I can say it is not an amazing value parts-wise; you will spend a lot more than ordering the parts separately. You will not save a lot of time as it took a month to get them.

That Said. The company was good to deal with, had great costumer service, and if you are looking for an easy solution to get into TTFB then its not a bad option. the sensations are significantly better than a stock BK and are WAY cheaper than going all out on larger units.

I agree that the slip-angle package is indeed a relatively simple kit of parts, shipped in pieces. I am pretty sure I found the spring isolators on Alibaba but you'd have to think about what spring rates to get - different front/rear and "heavy rig" rear springs are included. Yes the Daytons drop-ship from parts-express. The amp and soundcard are both available on Amazon. The part that was hardest for me to think about sourcing was the isolator/shaker mounts. These are nicely made, sized to fit 8020 rails, drilled to take the Dayton BST-1 perfectly, and supplied with tiny bolts. I actually thought the kit was decent value.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I used these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5FJRK7C/, size M8*20*25*25mm. I was mistaken, they were only $12. I only have them on the seat, the pedals have no further isolation. The upper female internal thread is only 8mm deep, so I had to order some shorter bolts.

I had seen your neoprene version @Andrew_WOT, and I was planning to try that next if these didn't work out, but as mentioned, I simply cannot tell from within VR, so I'm happy with these.

I had those before, a bit of being on the water mattress feeling, try to record video of you pressing hard on brake pedal with those.

 

[DaveOM]

I had those before, a bit of being on the water mattress feeling, try to record video of you pressing hard on brake pedal with those.

Feels fine to me in VR. No interest in recording a video. The whole rig moves slightly on the isolators, so the whole thing wobbles a bit as you sit in. Once I'm in VR, it just feels great. Could it be 0.046% better? Yeah maybe.

 

[DaveOM]

The part that was hardest for me to think about sourcing was the isolator/shaker mounts. These are nicely made, sized to fit 8020 rails, drilled to take the Dayton BST-1 perfectly, and supplied with tiny bolts. I actually thought the kit was decent value.

FWIW, the spring isolators and mounts are available as a separate package for $210 plus shipping. No relationship, just a happy customer.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Feels fine to me in VR. No interest in recording a video. The whole rig moves slightly on the isolators, so the whole thing wobbles a bit as you sit in. Once I'm in VR, it just feels great. Could it be 0.046% better? Yeah maybe.

VR or not I also thought it's not that bad, again depends on how stiff your brake pedal is, I am on Heusinkveld Pro.
Here's the video on how it actually looks in action.

 

[avatariogaruda]

I agree that the slip-angle package is indeed a relatively simple kit of parts, shipped in pieces. I am pretty sure I found the spring isolators on Alibaba but you'd have to think about what spring rates to get - different front/rear and "heavy rig" rear springs are included. Yes the Daytons drop-ship from parts-express. The amp and soundcard are both available on Amazon. The part that was hardest for me to think about sourcing was the isolator/shaker mounts. These are nicely made, sized to fit 8020 rails, drilled to take the Dayton BST-1 perfectly, and supplied with tiny bolts. I actually thought the kit was decent value.

I agree that not dealing with figuring out all the parts was a great value (in terms of ease of use it is fantastic) and I have no regrets.

Places to improve:
The supplied bolts for mounting the transducers to the brackets were actually a
little too short. I could not get them to thread more than 2 or 3 turns with the lock
washer installed without bottoming out the foam pad under the transducers.

The supplied speaker wire was pretty terrible, steel core, not copper (although it
was black and not clear coated like the video review)

USB soundcard is really cheaply constructed, & had a 24 inch usb cable

RCA to 3.5mm mini jack cables are only 50CM long

RCA to 3.5mm mini jack cables are silver not black

Slip-Angle Stickers were slapped on the isolators at a 35 to 45 degree angle and
looked like ****

Isolators and springs are all sorts of colors, all black painted (with color coded ring)
would be amazing

What was nice:
The brackets are really nice, well made; 2.5mm rolled steel, no burrs, holes aligned
perfectly for mounting

Packed really REALLY well

RCA to 3.5mm mini jack cables are braided and well made

Amplifier is high quality and has a premium feel

Isolators were manufactured with great tolerances and quality materials

3 different Isolator spring sets included

Few extra nuts and washers included incase you drop one (couldn't install anyway)

Fantastic customer support

 

[sanderan]

Phew. I just finished reading from page 100. What a ride!

I bought the slip-angle.com 4-corner M4/BST-1 with isolators package (~$550 shipped), and I've added an Earthquake MQB-1 (on sale at $136. It's so tiny!). I'm an 80:20 kinda guy - I aim to get 80% of the performance for 20% of the cost. With that in mind, this is ~$750 worth of tactile VR immersion upgrade and I absolutely love it. Is it as good as several-$1000 of BK/TST/EXC/N1000D/DSP/etc.? Nope. Do I care? Nope. Am I interested in any debate about it? Nooope. Can I see upgrade paths towards BKs/TSTs/N*EXC/DSP/amplifiers? Of course.

Feel free to ask questions.

Dave,

where did you buy the Earthquake MQB-1 on sale for $136?

Thanks,

 

[DaveOM]

Dave,

where did you buy the Earthquake MQB-1 on sale for $136?

Thanks,

I got it on Amazon. The price can vary wildly, it's $185 today. I had been tracking the price on camelcamelcamel.