Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

Rod, LFE is working great.

Read my post again.
I do feel effect in both Advance seat side's and LFE under the seat.
Effect is a soft thump as I introduce throttle.

The Effect feels best with only the seat ADV.
Soon as I introduce the large LFE the effect is hardly noticeable.

All my unit's test and work fine.
What I'm saying is. Accel LONG is not sending anything to my TST.

Signal is felt in pair of Advance seat sides and also in the LFE under the seat.

BUT

Advance AND LFE operating at the same time the effect I feel in the seat
is very weak..turn LFE amp off and just have Advance on and the effect feels great.

It's as if the LFE is spoiling the effect from the Advance.

Why is it only ACC long you refer too?

Man, we messed around with a lot of files and trying different things.
It would be much easier if you posted an image of the file in Audacity, also confirm what way again you have the LFE/TST being used regards the channels.

Some of the waveforms used in those early tests were not ideal.
Its possible the wavefrom is using very low Hz that the TST is not really producing but the bigger units will.

You could also potentially have some form of cancellation happening. That may be a phase issue, as your LFE is inverted and your BK Advance are not. On your iNuke powering the LFE set the phase to 180 and then try with 0.
This may or may not help, but it would then put each units piston to operate in the same fashion. (all up and all down at same time). We may already have done this.

With no isolation below your seat frame then any 8020 cross section in contact with the seat frame via any other connecting section will easily deliver the L/R Advance energy. I cant say if this is a factor or not, but I think its one reason you were not detecting stereo bumps so well. Having the gap with the LFE is a bit pointless if the energy from L/R Advance can easily travel via another route.

There are alternative ways how you could use/mount the LFE,
It could be installed on its own structure making contact from below the seat only.

My focus is not on the older effects, better is possible as we learn to understand things more.

 

[signman]

Why is it only ACC long you refer too?

Man, we messed around with a lot of files and trying different things.
It would be much easier if you posted an image of the file in Audacity, also confirm what way again you have the LFE/TST being used regards the channels.

Some of the waveforms used in those early tests were not ideal.
Its possible the wavefrom is using very low Hz that the TST is not really producing but the bigger units will.

You could also potentially have some form of cancellation happening. That may be a phase issue, as your LFE is inverted and your BK Advance are not. On your iNuke powering the LFE set the phase to 180 and then try with 0.
This may or may not help, but it would then put each units piston to operate in the same fashion. (all up and all down at same time). We may already have done this.

With no isolation below your seat frame then any 8020 cross section in contact with the seat frame via any other connecting section will easily deliver the L/R Advance energy. I cant say if this is a factor or not, but I think its one reason you were not detecting stereo bumps so well. Having the gap with the LFE is a bit pointless if the energy from L/R Advance can easily travel via another route.

There are alternative ways how you could use/mount the LFE,
It could be installed on its own structure making contact from below the seat only.

My focus is not on the older effects, better is possible as we learn to understand things more.

I have been quite happy with how and where my tactile is mounted.

I have noticed ' Accel Lateral ' is now doing NOTHING.

Used to think this effect was felt when corning hard in fast sweeper ?
I used to think ' Wheel slip ' was wheel spin ?


I now find in iracing ' Wheel slip ' is operating in fast sweeper's.
When I give a car full gas that is running zero TC and the rear wheels are spinning I have no
effect what so ever..

Strange

 

[Mr Latte]

Try resetting SSW, apply Buttkickers and 6 Channel mode again see if that helps.
I cant help with i-racing, such issues for effects operation you need to direct to Andre.

My own focus and testing relies solely on AC

In AC the ACC effect seems to be active to a specific speed or rpm, then fades out but comes back in at high rpm/speed again. It can accompany the engine effect giving a sense fo torque and the g-load placed on the car.

I have found with DEC what we get or feel may be linked to the volume used.
Sometimes with some effects, I am testing, I can feel DEC when just letting off the throttle but other times not, just a response from braking, so still a bit confusing why this is. Im still in process of looking into it.

Joint effort with others all looking into effects and sharing would bring more and better general understanding. Andre doesnt give much info on what his code is doing, just like Berney and with Simvibe. They likely want to protect what or how some things are operating.

 

[signman]

Same thing in Assetto Rod.

 

[Mr Latte]

Same thing in Assetto Rod.

wots the same?

 

[JDoruyter]

@Mr Latte send you a pm with my details for the SSW test. No response?

 

[signman]

No Lateral in both AC and iracing Rod.

 

[Mr Latte]

No Lateral in both AC and iracing Rod.

I reported once in the SSW thread that the bottom 3 effects seemed to stop working for me, couldn't understand why. IIRC I removed my effects from the "customized" folder, unticked the Buttkickers and reset 6 channel mode. So I had SSW go back to default "Base" folder files.

I then did a system reboot and tested with "default" files, the effects came back. Then I replaced with custom files again.

@Mr Latte send you a pm with my details for the SSW test. No response?

Thanks, don't worry will get you sorted, not responded to people yet.

With all the different types of configurations, people could have, it is a lot of work to build up the correct channel displacements within Audacity. I think this new process of 5x variations of an effect and then also 4x levels of gain is the best way to let people do testing and cover the majority of tactile out their.

The disadvantage of this is the effort time required by me, 20x files for each effect and then making these for 1 channel, 2 channel, 4 channel, 6 channel configurations. So I have to think what is the best way to do this and make it simple for people to just download a folder with all the effects/options and it just work on their own configurations. Also to provide easy to understand instructions etc.
Work needed for the thread as well but this will be a great way for people to find better tactile in their rigs.

We can see how this goes with the first effects using "Wheel slip" and "Lateral G".

 

[JDoruyter]

Thanks, don't worry will get you sorted, not responded to people yet.

Sorry my bad, I am a impatient piece of machinery

With all the different types of configurations, people could have, it is a lot of work to build up the correct channel displacements within Audacity. I think this new process of 5x variations of an effect and then also 4x levels of gain is the best way to let people do testing and cover the majority of tactile out their.

The disadvantage of this is the effort time required by me, 20x files for each effect and then making these for 1 channel, 2 channel, 4 channel, 6 channel configurations. So I have to think what is the best way to do this and make it simple for people to just download a folder with all the effects/options and it just work on their own configurations. Also to provide easy to understand instructions etc.
Work needed for the thread as well but this will be a great way for people to find better tactile in their rigs.

We can see how this goes with the first effects using "Wheel slip" and "Lateral G".

This take a lot of effort, more then I Initially thought you gonna do. But on the other hand, this is very promosing for the test results from everybody.

I will not bother you anymore.. Take your time

 

[Mr Latte]

@JDoruyter

Hey no probs, its just from some tests of the different files that I decided to go with this recent idea to expand things to give people more options or possibilities to find suitable working effects.

Need to help cover so many options different users have.

• Soundcards
• Amplifiers
• Tactile
• Seats
• Installations

 

[Hiro Abe]

So I tried out my current config in PC2. I must say, it feels pretty awesome! The delay I built into the rear seat .wav for bumps works really nicely. It feels just like a real car when you hit a bump with your front wheels then feel it from the rears! The accel/decel effects are feeling real good too.

Finally, I'm getting a sense of what well implemented tactile immersion can do.

Looking forward to the testing with Rodney and the gang!

 

[Ceolmor]

I had an idea and decided to use it for both front and back but put 3/100 of silence at the front of the waveform that feeds the rear.

"3/100." Is this 3/100ths of a second? Have you got a screenshot of what the waveform looks like after this edit?

The one thing I've noticed though, with AC, I have to bump the gain to near 100% with the bump effects ........

Which gain are you referring to here?

 

[Mr Latte]

Have you tried this with AC as well or does it create a weird response if it still is not operating the front/rear with bumps like PC2 or other titles?

We can add delay with the iNuke but then that is on a channel basis and not just a single effect, so all effects to that amp would have a small delay. I don't think that quite would work but some effects may benefit with delay or fading over channels. It was possible in Simvibe with EM and using select effects only on that amp.

I briefly played around with "delay" on some effects and also using "fade" but it was indeed brief. For example in having "gearchange" via 6 channel mode. Have the effect start in the central units (CEN/SUB) channels with a slightly longer fade into the outer 4. Some testing was also done in the past to represent front/mid/rear engine based cars.

I welcome people exploring possibilities with effects and Audacity and sharing the results.
As mentioned before, we have more control of the effect with ".wav" and not just tone generation restricted within the settings of Simvibe. So we have more possibilities for the character and channel distribution of the effects.

With the idea of delay, it's even possible to add a few hundredths of delay to the opposite channel of the driving position of some cars. So, such as your doing could be expanded over a 4 channel config to not just have bump delay between front and rear but also across left/right. How well it works or feels, I dont yet know but its certainly not hard to implement and experiment with. This is, however, ideas that could be done for "car profiles" and if some users want to go to such extremes?

More experimentation needed but glad to see others try things. Until I get my own rig up and running on 6 channels again I can't really do much playing around with this kind of things.

 

[Mr Latte]

So, yesterday I sent a member who was interested in the testing and online at the time, some A B C D E variations of the new "wheel slip" effect I have.

Right away, we discovered one issue I highlighted and this is the gain/amplitude factor.

My own config currently has a pre-amp between my soundcard and main amps. This can give my output a bit more boost (manual control via the ART Split-Mix 4 own dials).

So it turned out as expected the lowest gain based effects I had with "V40" & "V30" files had too little gain. Even with this users amp and soundcard at max, they felt very little response from the effect.

I followed in response sending "V20" & "V10" with higher dB gain levels that seemed to work. Having these "V" sets of the effects will let someone find what matches their own hardware and tactile. It is likely they could use 2 that match well in volume with what they want or need. Some effects the users may like to use the higher gain of the two as it can help boost an effect using frequencies below 30Hz on the more common units.

With the user having 5x variations of the effect also that alters the Hz within the effect itself.
I believe this should enable people to find on ANY hardware a good working solution. It will bring the possibility that Simvibe never offered to let users find and easily achieve good working effects.
It will also let people build their own car profiles, or you guys in the community if interested create and share your own, based on the hardware you have with others of the same hardware.


The only matter then, is really down to how good or suitable the community deems the "master" waveform of the effect itself, in how it represents via its own character, the nature of the individual effect. Basically, does it feel good, bad or just wrong.


I will get files for this first effect done for others and sent you each privately to match your own configs soon. This is just pre-setup with people prior to doing the proper thread later in the week. We need to get people with ALL types of hardware and confirm the "V" factor we have in place covers all hardware amps/tactile combinations.

Dayton Puc, Aura Pro, Bass Pump, Reckhorn users, where are you?
It's time to get onboard and help me, help you, improve your tactile experiences...

One point I need to highlight is anyone with a standard amp that is using two units in a front/back configuration and in some cases maybe even using different models of tactile units for each. If your amp only has a single "volume control" and not one for each channel, please let me know and I can help instruct you how to get around this to give one unit perhaps more gain than the other.

The proper thread will be easy to understand and detailed with diagrams.
It should grow to be useful and popular for all levels of tactile users from beginners to advanced.
It will let people get the very most out of SSW and I believe better their tactile experiences beyond what many in the community already have with Simvibe.



* I don't really want to use my own Google Drive or other personal cloud services.
Can someone recommend a good file sharing service that offers even a nice front-end/web interface? One that I can upload or change files and manage myself but have this upcoming thread here on AC with the test. To make it fully open to the community to freely download the files that suit their configurations?

 

[Ceolmor]

@Ceolmor

Check for me some files previously sent to you that they match the way the "Base" & "Folder 2" files appear in Audacity. They would have 2 channels in Audacity but for "left" only the top has the "waveform" and for the "right" only the bottom.

I may have sent files to you in the past that occupied both top/bottom for effects 4/5.
This may be the issue?

I have your Mr Latte 2 Channel Front Back Files, with some of your different Bump Files. For each set I have 4 & 5 files, but no 6 file, so must be using Andre's default 6 for this.

With your files, all the 4 and 5 files have left and right tracks, with both left tracks going to the front BKA and both right tracks going to the rear BKA.

Base 4 & 5 files in Folder 2 have only the left track in 4 and right track in 5, which is what I expected, as these are stereo left and right whereas what I need is front and rear only. Which is why I assumed your Bump files were configured as they were, to create front/rear effects, not left/right effects.

 

[Ceolmor]

Anyone tried the new SSW Beta 2.36 yet, with separate road bumps and road surface?

In the Base files there appear to be files 18 and 19 now which I don't think were there before, although they are also labelled bumps left and right.

 

[Mr Latte]

Anyone tried the new SSW Beta 2.36 yet, with separate road bumps and road surface?

In the Base files there appear to be files 18 and 19 now which I don't think were there before, although they are also labelled bumps left and right.

Sure did...

It has helped gearchange too with N no longer producing a response.
Appears Andre has taken on board peoples suggestions for the bumps. I found the default effect he has used for 18/19 not to be that good but really appreciate that we now have something to represent road surface feel or smaller bump representation from the main bumps.

Stereo placement still seems a factor but I only have AC to go by and other sims maybe offer more accurate stereo or generally improved front and rear bumps.

For you own setup/configuration if you are running 6 channel mode but using only 2 channels then really all you should be feeling is the first two channels in Audacity if connected by the "Green" soundcard output for Stereo. Then having the Left channel represent perhaps the pedals and the Right channel representing the seat.

Not sure how you have your soundcard connected to your amp?

 

[Hiro Abe]

"3/100." Is this 3/100ths of a second? Have you got a screenshot of what the waveform looks like after this edit?

Yes, 3/100 of a second. I'm at work now so can send a screenshot later but imagine the stock waveform in Audacity with L/R separated. I inserted 3/100 of a second silence in front of the back channel. I wasn't sure if having a different L/R waveform in terms of timing was going to screw something up so I also added 3/100 to the back of the front waveform. Not much to it. I only did this for bumps.

Which gain are you referring to here?

The gain within SSW. I'm trying to keep it so all my settings within my 3000DSP - including volume - can stay static. Then I can make per sim adjustments within SSW. With R3E, my SSW gains are around 25%, PC2 around 15% but with AC I've had to bump them to near 100%. This is with the soundcard's levels set at max (I use a SoundBlaster Audigy card). I didn't go back to AC yesterday when I was playing around with this stuff but will tonight to be sure.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes, 3/100 of a second. I'm at work now so can send a screenshot later but imagine the stock waveform in Audacity with L/R separated. I inserted 3/100 of a second silence in front of the back channel. I wasn't sure if having a different L/R waveform in terms of timing was going to screw something up so I also added 3/100 to the back of the front waveform. Not much to it. I only did this for bumps.



The gain within SSW. I'm trying to keep it so all my settings within my 3000DSP - including volume - can stay static. Then I can make per sim adjustments within SSW. With R3E, my SSW gains are around 25%, PC2 around 15% but with AC I've had to bump them to near 100%. This is with the soundcard's levels set at max (I use a SoundBlaster Audigy card). I didn't go back to AC yesterday when I was playing around with this stuff but will tonight to be sure.

I think thats the best way, find a level on the amp and not need to touch it
Just alter volumes within SSW. With iNuke DSP we can use a profile for general usage that suits your hardware/rig and preference in how your tactile operate. Have say additional profiles in iNuke for "Quieter / Midnight Mode" or something like that.

I now have the new "Wheelslip" effect ready for beta tests
This contains the 5 levels of different gain. Although I think most people will need similar and only use 2.

I seek for people to be able to find a "V" (level of gain/volume) that enables them to have SSW upto 100% full slider usage. If only using 30% gain in SSW then really the "effect" has too high of a dB. Often the term (too hot) is used. I previously had this with other effects in the past as well but whats the point of using only 20-30% of the potential slider gain in SSW? Being able to use the full 100% then gives people more precise control with small +/- increments, does it not?

What we want to avoid is clipping, any effect that has a high dB in amplitude (too hot) then when combined with high slider value or other effects also using the same Hz could cause clipping and distortion. I think in Simvibe this is what "Autotune" kinda does to prevent different effects pushing the dB too far beyond 0dB level avoiding clipping with all the frequencies.

As yet Andre has not equipped SSW with "activity" and "clipping" indicators (eg green/red) for each effect to show if such was happening. This and a "Mute All" is two features that would be handy for tactile users. I don't think Andre ever mentioned that SSW auto-adjusts in real-time limit or avoid clipping.

 

[Hiro Abe]

I'm assuming we can load the beta from within the app? I didn't know he had released one and not finding a link to it on his site. Would definitely like to give it a try with the added road texture.