Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[anton_Chez]

I'd really want to get it onto the seat. It would help minimise the transfer of energy into the floor, which is on joists. Probably even more important than with the smaller units given the power capabilities of this thing. I have some pads that I previously had on the rig, I think to isolate the seat. For some reason I took them off, I can't remember why. Could have been my old seat. But I can mount the seat on top of these, which would give me the 20mm I need AND help to isolate the seat from the frame. Which, now that I think about it, is most definitely the way to go. I'll relocate the Mini LFE to the rear and replace it underneath with the Concert vertically.

 

[Mr Latte]

I was just fooling around earlier, looking to make some progress with Cubase Supervision tools.

So here is having visualization widows for comparing two effects at once but with a difference. In this example Road Rumble Vs Road Vibrations activity and outputs.

Pushing The Potential


What I am doing here is applying to each window multiple analyzer tools that can individually be expanded or full-screened and this applied for comparing.

1) Total combined output of all effect layers for each effect output on a single channel
2) The BK only generated effect layers output
3) The TST only generated effect layers output
4) The Exciter only generated effect layers output

This lets me see not only the total complete effects generated audio from all multilayers used but also the breakdown of each individual component's effect layers' role. This is a further step to my own dedication in not just building effects (by feel alone) but from a technical standpoint of having greater understanding, knowing exactly what the effects tone generation is doing, and tuning their output to suit the make/model of transducer/exciter it is designated for.

This highlights what frequencies I can perhaps tweak more or what frequencies are oversaturated with too aggressive amplitude. It also helps to ensure we have a nice variation in the feel/output of different effects.

Looking Deeper Into Simhub Settings
It will also be very useful to comparing a duplicated effect but looking more deeply into what/how the output is altered when we apply different settings. It is easy to have 3 identical effects but apply to them different settings to see exactly what happens to the output with the changes applied.

While much has already been grasped, I want to gather and understand better how to implement controls in settings for specific effect roles not just apply to these decent feeling sensations by guesswork or assumption.

For instance:
How do we make activity/timing response better for saw curbs compared with or sausage bumps and the different frequencies we would apply to these.

How do we have an improved or smoother range in operation for effects (like wheelslip) with a more constant and variable range. To improve the felt transition from its sensitivity for smaller - larger values?

The potential is awesome, still so many things to further improve on....

 

[No Depth]

I'd really want to get it onto the seat. It would help minimise the transfer of energy into the floor, which is on joists. Probably even more important than with the smaller units given the power capabilities of this thing. I have some pads that I previously had on the rig, I think to isolate the seat. For some reason I took them off, I can't remember why. Could have been my old seat. But I can mount the seat on top of these, which would give me the 20mm I need AND help to isolate the seat from the frame. Which, now that I think about it, is most definitely the way to go. I'll relocate the Mini LFE to the rear and replace it underneath with the Concert vertically.

Take photos as I am very curious how this pans out!

 

[metalnwood]

I have 4 bk life minis on my seat, the ones underneath work well, I have one on the back which is low, that blends with the ones underneath. The I had one higher on the back. That was tricky, it felt quite localised so I used very little power with it or it stood out as feeling quite wrong. So I am not sure that a big life would feel natural on the back of a seat unless it was low.

 

[mgh24]

Just got Nobsound amp and two PUI audio transducers set up on my P1-X cockpit. Getting good feedback with the two.

First thing I notice is how much more information is coming through wheel compared to transducers. Driving a rough track like Long Beach, there is a lot of feedback coming through the wheel, some serious bumps, but very little to nothing coming from the transducers when hitting very hard bumps. Can see the car move in cockpit view, and feel the hits in the wheel.

Is this simply a tuning issue, or do I need to get telemetry feedback rather than sound card feedback? From what I have been able to find, Simvibe uses telemetry, where SimHub, which is what I am using, is just translating game sounds to tactile feedback?

I have been experimenting with SimHub settings, and looking at how others have their settings.

What do I have right and what do I have wrong?

Is game telemetry feedback different from feedback from a sound card?
If so, is my only choice Simvibe to get more accurate representation of feedback?

It seems obvious to me that there is much more info available, as I can get it through my wheel.

 

[metalnwood]

Just got Nobsound amp and two PUI audio transducers set up on my P1-X cockpit. Getting good feedback with the two.

First thing I notice is how much more information is coming through wheel compared to transducers. Driving a rough track like Long Beach, there is a lot of feedback coming through the wheel, some serious bumps, but very little to nothing coming from the transducers when hitting very hard bumps. Can see the car move in cockpit view, and feel the hits in the wheel.

Is this simply a tuning issue, or do I need to get telemetry feedback rather than sound card feedback? From what I have been able to find, Simvibe uses telemetry, where SimHub, which is what I am using, is just translating game sounds to tactile feedback?

I have been experimenting with SimHub settings, and looking at how others have their settings.

What do I have right and what do I have wrong?

Is game telemetry feedback different from feedback from a sound card?
If so, is my only choice Simvibe to get more accurate representation of feedback?

It seems obvious to me that there is much more info available, as I can get it through my wheel.

Simhub uses telemetry and that's what most would say to stick with. You don't want to use sound as your source.

How you mount them is also very important. The p1x can absorb a lot of your tactile so that you don't feel it if things are not mounted optimally

 

[mgh24]

Simhub uses telemetry and that's what most would say to stick with. You don't want to use sound as your source.

How you mount them is also very important. The p1x can absorb a lot of your tactile so that you don't feel it if things are not mounted optimally

Good to know, thanks!

SimHub uses telemetry by default, or do I have to change a setting for it to do so?

 

[metalnwood]

Good to know, thanks!

SimHub uses telemetry by default, or do I have to change a setting for it to do so?

using the shakeit bass shaker plugin you are using telemetry. I dont think there is any other way in simhub.

 

[super kermit]

soundblaster x3 optical out and simultaneous speakers/line out?​

soundblaster x3 optical out and simultaneous speakers/line out?

Will the X3 do ALL line outs and the optical out at the same time?

 

[RCHeliguy]

using the shakeit bass shaker plugin you are using telemetry. I dont think there is any other way in simhub.

SimVibe also runs off telemetry.

Keep in mind that what is being generated is all synthetic but is correlated with telemetry.

Take engine rpm. It is simple signal, but then you generate a more complex signal to feel harmonics and resonance and you set a range of sensations based on the frequency range of your transducers.

In SimHub I like a little simulated road vibration which is just correlated with speed.

The gear change is an artificial clunk that is triggered by a gear change.

I like the wheel slip effect, but it very much depends on the car. If a car has a very gradual controllable loss of traction I like the effect to come in later. If a car tends to just let go, I like the slip to start earlier so I have more warning.

 

[RCHeliguy]

soundblaster x3 optical out and simultaneous speakers/line out?​

soundblaster x3 optical out and simultaneous speakers/line out?

Will the X3 do ALL line outs and the optical out at the same time?

The optical out will carry all the signals, but you need a preamp to split the signal for each channel of you amplifier. Most AV recievers won't drive transducers well.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

Deleted

 

[RCHeliguy]

You might consider something smaller, inexpensive and designed for just this task.

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[mgh24]

Experimented today with ACC (previously most was done with AC). It seems ACC has better effects than AC, but maybe I just don't have AC dialed in yet.

I have side mounted seat mounts. I could pretty easily put some sort of damper between the 8020 rails that the seat mounts attach to, and the main frame, but that would mean repositioning the transducers. Repositioning would be easy, but I would have much less contact area with the transducer. The transducer would still be flat against the 8020 rail, but much less contact area, instead of mounted on the side on a piece of 40 x 120, it would be mounted on a 40 x 40.

I don't know enough about how a transducer works to know how much affect this would have.

Ideas?

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.

 

[mgh24]

This afternoon I got the idea from reading about transducer placement in furniture for home theater applications, to use a piece of wood to mount my transducers. The wood is between my seat mount and seat rails, and I put rubber grommets between the seat rails and the main frame.

Big time improvement! Much greater fidelity in feedback. Have not tried it with AC yet, but drove just a bit in ACC, and it was an immediate improvement.

The transducers are pretty close together, so I don't think I'll get any left/right affect.

I have to track down an issue still, as rumble effect does not come through the left transducer as well as the right. Other effects don't seem to be affected as much. Using mono mode rather than left/right for rumble, and I am good to go for now.

I need to find something a bit better than the grommets I am using, either larger, or thicker, or both, but that is for tomorrow. This evening I need to get some driving done!

 

[anton_Chez]

The BK CT is pretty awesome. The power is unbelievable. I have it mounted to a piece of timber that is spanning the main rails of the chassis, behind the seat. Honestly, with this much energy, that I can actually feel, I doubt there is much point trying to pull things apart to get it mounted on the seat. You can feel so much just from where it is and at least this way it's completely upright, no compromises on the mounting or anything. I'm seriously considering just removing everything else that I have and running this alone. I'll have to plug in some more effects, I wonder if @Mr Latte has any updated large BK unit profiles for me to test out....?

I've already transferred the suggested amp and EQ settings over and I will give that a go later. I was just running some laps testing the engine from the old large BK profile I had saved and it's so good. The unit itself doesn't struggle, at all. For now I can't hear any weird noises or rattling, anything that might annoy someone. The MQB-1 did have some of that but I can't work out if it's the actual unit itself of if it's residual energy going off and rattling the seat and other things.

I think having it on timber helps a lot too. It gives something soft-ish to work against, even though it's mounted along the frame and not totally suspended in the middle, I reckon this what I'll go with. I'll have to paint the mount black or something, but it should come up alright.

 

[metalnwood]

The BK CT is pretty awesome. The power is unbelievable. I have it mounted to a piece of timber that is spanning the main rails of the chassis, behind the seat. Honestly, with this much energy, that I can actually feel, I doubt there is much point trying to pull things apart to get it mounted on the seat. You can feel so much just from where it is and at least this way it's completely upright, no compromises on the mounting or anything. I'm seriously considering just removing everything else that I have and running this alone. I'll have to plug in some more effects, I wonder if @Mr Latte has any updated large BK unit profiles for me to test out....?

I've already transferred the suggested amp and EQ settings over and I will give that a go later. I was just running some laps testing the engine from the old large BK profile I had saved and it's so good. The unit itself doesn't struggle, at all. For now I can't hear any weird noises or rattling, anything that might annoy someone. The MQB-1 did have some of that but I can't work out if it's the actual unit itself of if it's residual energy going off and rattling the seat and other things.

I think having it on timber helps a lot too. It gives something soft-ish to work against, even though it's mounted along the frame and not totally suspended in the middle, I reckon this what I'll go with. I'll have to paint the mount black or something, but it should come up alright.

Nice to hear Anton I have started a spreadsheet with the costs to get set upproperly.. Just a step at a time at the moment but looking forward to feeling what a couple of lfe's can do.. Luckily there is a place around the corner from me in NZ that is not going to completly overcharge me for the 3000 and 1000 amps.. Getting the transducers from parts express. thats gonna hurt though.

 

[mgh24]

Quick update - very happy with my setup. Inexpensive, and great feedback now that I have the transducers isolated from the main frame of the rig.

Something strange going on still, I do not have as much feedback on left side as I do on the right side. Not the transducer or the amp, I have switched left/right, and response I get through the seat is still weaker on left side. Still get excellent results just running in mono (essentially what the BK Gamer 2 does), but wish I could track it down.

Many thanks for the help here!

 

[metalnwood]

Probably need a picture, if you have reversed things for testing and the same then it will be a seat/mounting issue. depends what seat you have, some from various cars, if you have a scrap yard one, mount differently on different sides because the car floor is different on each side so could be you have more metal/mass on one side.

 

[mgh24]

Seat is a Corbeau racing seat.
This is a picture of what the transducers are mounted on, just a scrap of particle board I had laying around.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense, there must be a variation somewhere, in the mount, the board, somewhere.

This is the rail that has the grommet underneath it.