Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[signman]

My Aussie mate already showed it me and has one on order ..he knows the builder.

Personally prefer the Manufactory.

 

[Pouls1]

High End Tactile Rig!
Possibly for an optimal high-end tactile rig, if seeking to build up towards such for SSW could use:

Front Stereo = BKA
Rear Stereo = BKA
Cen & Sub Channels = TST 239*
Additional/Secondary Cen & Sub Units = BK LFE* (1 in seat ) or (1 each in seat & pedals)

* "Dual Role" on Cen & Sub channels:
Pedal Section = Cen & Seat Section = Sub

Hi,
I have a rig on order from Sim-Lab - a GT1 - which will be manufactured this week and sent to me next week. I have spent most of the past days reading just about every post I've found on this subject and thank you Mr. Latte for your dedication. It has been a very learningful and enjoyable experience.

I've tried to learn as much as possible in order to get a basic understanding of what and where I would like to go. And I hope that I with your help and guidance learn more and build an ultimate immersion rig?

I found the above quote in one of your latter posts - is that what I should go with?

I will also go with the iNuke amps - should I go for the 1000's or the 3000's and how many do I need?

I will go with SSW based on what I gathered from my reading and I will get the recommended sound card unless there is another one preferred now?

I will talk to Sim-Lab tomorrow regarding mounting plates for the 4 - should the be mounted similarly to the two Signman uses on his rig? How about the forward placement and also underneath the pedals - something similar for mounting under the seat?

The build can be done in the coming weeks - I have the time.

Also, I have time on my hands to document and test if I can be of any help of any sort in the future.

I have a lot of questions, but just wanted to touch base for now to see if this is something that would be of interest to help with?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi,
I have a rig on order from Sim-Lab - a GT1 - which will be manufactured this week and sent to me next week. I have spent most of the past days reading just about every post I've found on this subject and thank you Mr. Latte for your dedication. It has been a very learningful and enjoyable experience.

I've tried to learn as much as possible in order to get a basic understanding of what and where I would like to go. And I hope that I with your help and guidance learn more and build an ultimate immersion rig?

I found the above quote in one of your latter posts - is that what I should go with?

I will also go with the iNuke amps - should I go for the 1000's or the 3000's and how many do I need?

I will go with SSW based on what I gathered from my reading and I will get the recommended sound card unless there is another one preferred now?

I will talk to Sim-Lab tomorrow regarding mounting plates for the 4 - should the be mounted similarly to the two Signman uses on his rig? How about the forward placement and also underneath the pedals - something similar for mounting under the seat?

The build can be done in the coming weeks - I have the time.

Also, I have time on my hands to document and test if I can be of any help of any sort in the future.

I have a lot of questions, but just wanted to touch base for now to see if this is something that would be of interest to help with?

Hi @Pouls1 thanks for your comments.

Feel free to fire me a PM sometime with what you have in mind and to go over some of your own queries.

I can give you some options to ponder but would very much encourage you to consider sharing your own excitement and experience with the community here with a future thread with your new hardware/system/cockpit.

Can't speak for others but I always enjoy reading (and seeing images) for those type of threads and seeing them unfold. We have several guys here at RD forums that are growing more passionate about tactile and what it can bring to a rig. Including some members already with really impressive tactile configurations.You've come to the right place.


I would say that 8020 is an excellent option as it makes installing the tactile and if your up for it trying more than one option to seek the best tactile projection into various body regions. Taking into account the level of isolation you may need.

 

[Maschine]

Hey guys! Rather than start a whole new thread, I thought I'd just ask in here. I can purchase two buttkicker concerts for a good price, I don't really hear them mentioned in the sim racing community as I know they're not the norm. I'd be running them with an inuke 3000dsp. Is there any issues with getting the concerts over the lfe's? I have two lfe's now and looking to add two more for a full chassis mode.

Thanks!

 

[asteroulis]

I'd pressume you'd be fine. Go for it

 

[Maschine]

I'd pressume you'd be fine. Go for it

Yeah the only difference I can see is the Concert is two ohm vs the lfe's four ohm. I assume as long the amp powers it, there'd be no real life difference when actually using it. Thanks mate.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah the only difference I can see is the Concert is two ohm vs the lfe's four ohm. I assume as long the amp powers it, there'd be no real life difference when actually using it. Thanks mate.

Please have a read at the BK Concert & BK LFE manuals
They state the CT is tuned more for musical purposes at 40Hz.

The Rise Of Home Cinema
The BK LFE was originally invented for "Home Cinema" purposes using an AV Recievers "Low Frequency Extension" via a dedicated subwoofer output. Movies can have soundtracks that often go below the audible spectrum of 20Hz and in some instances below 10Hz.

Musical Instrument Applications
The general understanding is, that the BK CT will give more emphasis for effects closer to the 40Hz range. However the LFE will give a stronger output at the very lowest frequencies, those at 20Hz and below.

This may also alter at what specific Hz they may suffer from "piston pang" issues when being driven hard. Although with an iNuke DSP amp this could be controlled by taming any "specific peak frequencies" either unit may have.

Not The Movies
Unlike movies, with Simvibe using tone generation or indeed even more with SSW. We as in community have the ability to use such frequencies for specific effects. For Simvibe this is giving an effect a range of Hz to either operate within (based on the dynamic telemetry values). Or with more control, in actually building/creating an individual waveform for that effect, using (Audacity) for Sim Shaker Wheels software.

A major difference, however, is that these telemetry based software programs can constantly be generating such frequencies. As each time an "effect" is called/activated, then what Hz each "effect" is given will be generated. So telemetry based, sim racing applications can be much more demanding on a tactile unit than say a movie soundtrack is. Of course, settings used, play their part in how each effect may be output or operational but in general, we place a lot of demands on tactile and amps using these telemetry based tactile options.

It's hard to miss up on a good deal. Although I would advise the BK LFE as already several users have at least 1 or ar using 4 with other tactile models. We also can make more impact with the lower Hz for bumps etc but also generate better engine idle etc with frequencies below 20Hz.

This is not to say the BK CT will not please. I have had scores for "frequency sweeps" given to me on its performance by different individuals but so far each is inconsistent. So I cant give you much assurance how it performs to the BK LFE with the telemetry tactile options we have.

I would love to do my own in-depth comparisons of all the main tactile models / currently on the market later this year. The BK LFE Vs BK Concert is one that personally intrigues me.

Some Buttkicker Info HERE

 

[Maschine]

Hey Mr. Latte! Some very interesting reading. I had recently also read the link you shared at the end too. I've currently (having oy very recently got into tactile racing) got two LFE's either side of the seat in chassis mode and one buttkicker gamer 2 under the seat in extension mode. To be honest I'm still coming to terms with everything regarding set up and I'm in no rush to go out and get something just to have it. I'm sincerely enjoying it so far and know I want to upgrade slowly and properly.
It is always hard to pass up a good deal for sure. But long term quality and enjoyment is much more important. I think I will wait for now and not purchase the Concerts. I'll continue to spend time with my three current buttkickers and look to add two more LFE's to the front and go from there.
I have been very much following your posts and will continue to do so. They've been very informative. Thank you again for the information. I've no doubt I'll be speaking to you again regarding hardware and set ups. This is just so much fun, I'm loving it.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi @Maschine,

Gees, thanks for the nice comments....
We seem to be developing a crowd of users here at RD forums, that have an interest or already own pretty impressive rigs using multichannel tactile configurations.

Your LFE are they the big or smaller ones?
If you're interested in doing some tests/experiments please, by all means, send me a PM.

 

[Pouls1]

Isolation ideas ;-)

 

[Mr Latte]

Also loads of these around....

 

[Pouls1]

It was a joke

 

[asteroulis]

It was a joke

Well, not really. If you Google "tennis ball drum riser plans" you'll see its a very common cheap isolation platform, which hasn't gained the popularity of deserves in the aim racing world.

 

[Mr Latte]

It was a joke

I seen both a comical side but it also reminded me of a rig that used multiple tennis balls to form a supported floor for a cockpit.

The idea may seem daft but its similar in concept if rather basic to what professional companies offer for installations using "floating floors" and specialist vibration or sound deadening.

Some are lucky in that vibration issues are not a problem for others it can be a real challenge.

 

[hectichaptic]

Hello Mr Latte,

Nice to finally track you down! I read through the thread you started on gtplanet and have quite a few questions for you.

I am soon to embark upon building a racing sim rig that I intend to eventually use in a sim bar/cafe. It will be intended for public use. I shall be using a Tillet carbon fibre race seat mounted into a stylised tubular aluminium space frame/roll cage. The design I have will hopefully give a sense of being in a race car. To accommodate a range of driver heights - kids to people of professional basket ball player stature - the wheel will be fixed but both pedals and seat will be adjustable. My plan is to isolate the seat from the chassis using mountain bike rear shocks. Pedals using simple silent block mounts. The whole assembly sat on resilient mounts.

I have read this thread and have been astonished by the quality of some of the rigs posted. I don't really need to replicate the sensation of driving over a snail at 170mph on a wet downhill section of the Nordscheife but am looking to provide a tactile effect that would suitably impress a layman. I shall first be using a Playstation 4 Pro platform with various racing titles to choose from. Wheel and pedals are Thrustmaster T-GT. From what i have thus far read, PC based is the way to go but thats probably down the line a bit.

Because this system has to be designed to run hard all day, I am happy to build good quality stuff into it. I had hoped to speak with you before starting to get some hardware together but it seems you left the gtplanet forum. I am in the US right now and have bought two Buttkicker LFEs and two Clark Synthesis 239s. I shall return home at the end of next month and shall hopefully have a Behringer NU3000DSP waiting for me. Very soon after my return I shall start bending and welding tube.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on dealing with this digital optical output from the pro and how to get it to provide stereo signals to the amp/s. Positioning of the tactile units is going to be crucial too. I have some ideas but yours will likely be much better!

Reading this, you will have concluded that I am totally green. whilst daft questions from noobs must get a bit tiresome, this should at least be an interesting challenge.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Hello Mr Latte,

Nice to finally track you down! I read through the thread you started on gtplanet and have quite a few questions for you.

I am soon to embark upon building a racing sim rig that I intend to eventually use in a sim bar/cafe. It will be intended for public use. I shall be using a Tillet carbon fibre race seat mounted into a stylised tubular aluminium space frame/roll cage. The design I have will hopefully give a sense of being in a race car. To accommodate a range of driver heights - kids to people of professional basket ball player stature - the wheel will be fixed but both pedals and seat will be adjustable. My plan is to isolate the seat from the chassis using mountain bike rear shocks. Pedals using simple silent block mounts. The whole assembly sat on resilient mounts.

I have read this thread and have been astonished by the quality of some of the rigs posted. I don't really need to replicate the sensation of driving over a snail at 170mph on a wet downhill section of the Nordscheife but am looking to provide a tactile effect that would suitably impress a layman. I shall first be using a Playstation 4 Pro platform with various racing titles to choose from. Wheel and pedals are Thrustmaster T-GT. From what i have thus far read, PC based is the way to go but thats probably down the line a bit.

Because this system has to be designed to run hard all day, I am happy to build good quality stuff into it. I had hoped to speak with you before starting to get some hardware together but it seems you left the gtplanet forum. I am in the US right now and have bought two Buttkicker LFEs and two Clark Synthesis 239s. I shall return home at the end of next month and shall hopefully have a Behringer NU3000DSP waiting for me. Very soon after my return I shall start bending and welding tube.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on dealing with this digital optical output from the pro and how to get it to provide stereo signals to the amp/s. Positioning of the tactile units is going to be crucial too. I have some ideas but yours will likely be much better!

Reading this, you will have concluded that I am totally green. whilst daft questions from noobs must get a bit tiresome, this should at least be an interesting challenge.

Honestly a Thrustmaster T-GT is not going to stand up to that kind of usage. For a start people will use the wheel for lifting themselves in and out of the rig and that plastic quick release won’t last long. Same sort of things with the pedals they wont take much abuse from the kind of stamping they will be subjected to.

Really you need to be looking at DD wheels which are designed for commercial use and high end pedals. They are actually stress tested for that kind of thing, it also means you can bolt the wheel rim to the shaft which makes it much harder for someone to try and steal. This does though mean you need a PC too as they aren’t supported on consoles but it’s something to think about as any of the Thrustmaster, Logitech and Fanatec stuff will break in that environment.

 

[Turvey]

Might be better with vibes from the LFE channel as non-directional, if you can find a way of working it in with the profile underneath.

Speaking of below
What about this Aussie Shifter from "down under"

I stumbled across these the other day ,reasearching seq shifters. Bizarrely enough searching the world and the fella who makes them lives within 15 minutes of me lol. Ive noticed they are selling well , still a bit out of my price range atm.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello Mr Latte,

Nice to finally track you down! I read through the thread you started on gtplanet and have quite a few questions for you.

I am soon to embark upon building a racing sim rig that I intend to eventually use in a sim bar/cafe. It will be intended for public use. I shall be using a Tillet carbon fibre race seat mounted into a stylised tubular aluminium space frame/roll cage. The design I have will hopefully give a sense of being in a race car. To accommodate a range of driver heights - kids to people of professional basket ball player stature - the wheel will be fixed but both pedals and seat will be adjustable. My plan is to isolate the seat from the chassis using mountain bike rear shocks. Pedals using simple silent block mounts. The whole assembly sat on resilient mounts.

I have read this thread and have been astonished by the quality of some of the rigs posted. I don't really need to replicate the sensation of driving over a snail at 170mph on a wet downhill section of the Nordscheife but am looking to provide a tactile effect that would suitably impress a layman. I shall first be using a Playstation 4 Pro platform with various racing titles to choose from. Wheel and pedals are Thrustmaster T-GT. From what i have thus far read, PC based is the way to go but thats probably down the line a bit.

Because this system has to be designed to run hard all day, I am happy to build good quality stuff into it. I had hoped to speak with you before starting to get some hardware together but it seems you left the gtplanet forum. I am in the US right now and have bought two Buttkicker LFEs and two Clark Synthesis 239s. I shall return home at the end of next month and shall hopefully have a Behringer NU3000DSP waiting for me. Very soon after my return I shall start bending and welding tube.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on dealing with this digital optical output from the pro and how to get it to provide stereo signals to the amp/s. Positioning of the tactile units is going to be crucial too. I have some ideas but yours will likely be much better!

Reading this, you will have concluded that I am totally green. whilst daft questions from noobs must get a bit tiresome, this should at least be an interesting challenge.

Hi, welcome to RD forums....

While "audio tactile" enjoyment from games can be quite good. The problem with "using game audio" from consoles is that you will get a very mixed bag of how well the tactile will feel from game-game. Even some cars being much better than others.

Some titles do not give much control over the individual sound effects in games. This limits what you can do. Other issues are some game menus, the music of boom effects some games have can feel annoying every time you finish a race or enter a menu.These are all factors worth mentioning that you will discover.

I haven't looked in a while but its best to avoid HDMI based converters and set the PS4 or XB1 to output audio via both HDMI and Optical. You should find adapters that use Optical input from the console and then enable 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel analog outputs via 3.5mm jacks.

You would then take cables from the appropriate channel outputs, for example, the front stereo or rear stereo pairs and have this goto the amps powering the tactile. I can look further into possible options just right now its late, zzzzzzzzz .

Really for this idea you have, PC is the way to go and I agree with the abuse such would get in how its going to be used you should consider more Robust hardware.

Also it may be wise to check the legal restrictions/requirements on this being made for public use or possible commercial gain. Not sure what is valid regarding this.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the forums and sim racing in general. I figured I will make tactile my next goal, I have never experienced it, but it sounds exciting!

I'm building new rig on rseat N1. I was reading on forums quite a lot, but I still have couple of issues I need to figure out. I have made a new thread, where I will be updating my progress. I made there post with tactile related questions, if any of you guys or possibly @Mr Latte himself would be kind to give me some input about my ideas / questions I would be very grateful .

Many thanks!

 

[hectichaptic]

Honestly a Thrustmaster T-GT is not going to stand up to that kind of usage. For a start people will use the wheel for lifting themselves in and out of the rig and that plastic quick release won’t last long. Same sort of things with the pedals they wont take much abuse from the kind of stamping they will be subjected to.

Really you need to be looking at DD wheels which are designed for commercial use and high end pedals. They are actually stress tested for that kind of thing, it also means you can bolt the wheel rim to the shaft which makes it much harder for someone to try and steal. This does though mean you need a PC too as they aren’t supported on consoles but it’s something to think about as any of the Thrustmaster, Logitech and Fanatec stuff will break in that environment.

Thanks for the reply, Furnace. I had thought about the vulnerability of the wheel and quick release mechanism. I was thinking about fabricating the cage in a way that people could kind of swing in. That was obviously not very well thought out. I have a T-GT for home use and it's that which has got me thinking about a racing sim bar/cafe. It'll do for testing though. You mentioned that you don't think that the Fanatic stuff would stand much abuse either? Never seen it in the flesh but it looks pretty tough. I have to include the PC stuff in my thinking as I'm hoping to draw people in who have a playstation at home. Could you point me in the direction of some good direct drive wheels ?