Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[EsxPaul]

I need some advice and clarification on my (poor) understanding of soundcard options. Please excuse my bewildered noobness

My current thinking is to start with 1x large BK (pedals), 1 large BK + 4x exiters (seat).

I have no dedicated soundcard and only onboard MB audio at present. All of the onboard audio outputs are unused as I only use a soundbar (USB) and a VR headset (USB).

Am I correct in thinking that I will need to use 6 mono outputs from the onboard audio for the tactile and if so, can that actually be done?

If not, I am happy to buy a dedicated soundcard but am confused over whether I'd need a 5.1 or 7.1 model. I've been looking at choosing the CREATIVE Sound BlasterX AE-5 Pure but find all the outputs confusing. Wouldn't I need a card that has 6 audio outputs and possibly even more if I were to add more transducers in the future?

 

[Mr Latte]

I need some advice and clarification on my (poor) understanding of soundcard options. Please excuse my bewildered noobness

My current thinking is to start with 1x large BK (pedals), 1 large BK + 4x exiters (seat).

I have no dedicated soundcard and only onboard MB audio at present. All of the onboard audio outputs are unused as I only use a soundbar (USB) and a VR headset (USB).

Am I correct in thinking that I will need to use 6 mono outputs from the onboard audio for the tactile and if so, can that actually be done?

If not, I am happy to buy a dedicated soundcard but am confused over whether I'd need a 5.1 or 7.1 model. I've been looking at choosing the CREATIVE Sound BlasterX AE-5 Pure but find all the outputs confusing. Wouldn't I need a card that has 6 audio outputs and possibly even more if I were to add more transducers in the future?

View attachment 373111

Simhub lets you use whatever sound hardware options you have connected. It also has unlimited number of channels.

Motherboard Audio
Your onboard audio can be used of course. The software for these can vary but while most these days are okay I would recommend using soundcards that offer at least EQ control. As shown on the forums here before we can turn down the EQ sliders for 500Hz and above. This can help reduce the audible noise of the units if a user does not have additional hardware like DSP to control the audio.

Soundcard 5.1 = 6 Channels
So this is fine for your current ideas, you can easily add another soundcard and USB makes it simple if you expand or intend to buy more units in the future.

I believe the best way to do this is to use Simhub in a way that makes it very easy for people.
My recommendation is to keep one soundcard for the exciters, then use an additional soundcard for BK units.
USB soundcards work great with Simhub so these should be an easy way to expand for more channels.

Organizing / Separating Effects
The current idea is using two folders on Simhubs main effects screen, to group effects like "Exciters" & "Buttkickers". Obviously, we then place all the exciter effects in that folder and then whatever effects we want for the BK in their own folder. We can have different settings and use different Hz for effects to suit each type of unit.

Sound Output Menus
This menu that lists the table for ALL the effects will appear for each of the sound cards being used. It won't separate which effects are for "Exciters" or "BK" units. Yet to control them we need to select the appropriate soundcard they are physically connected to. Some people find this a bit harder to grasp especially if you start having lots of effects layers.

So to control your units you go to the appropriate soundcard. In the lists of effects you then activate those effects to the channels you want them on. This should make things very simple once you keep in mind what card represents what units and channels in how you are using them for the effects you want to control.

6x Exciter Example:
An advanced (wheelslip effect) that can move from the front to sides and up the back of the seat to simulate progressive rear traction loss.

Motherboard Audio Soundcard
Wheelslip Effect
Layer 1 Channel 1/2 (Seat Front)
Layer 2 Channel 3/4 (Seat Sides)
Layer 3 Channel 5/6 (Seat Back)


Placing Effects
It's possible, to have a user import a profile of effects and then have these mapped to the channels/units you want them on. Due to so many different possible options, people may have from 2-8 exciters in the seat and none to possibly multiple BK units. So user profiles could vary greatly.

It's easy to share effects, the user will soon learn to grasp how to map effects to work on whatever channels they want. You have to keep in mind one of the brilliant things about this over a traditional tactile type installation is you as the user can place effects to where you want them. Have them static or move over groups of channels.


Your Hardware?
I am assuming you are buying an NX3000D to power the BK?
This needs 1x 3.5mm TRS Stereo Male to Dual XLR Male Splitter
Plug this into the soundcards Green output as this is usually channel 1&2 on the soundcard
It also needs 14AWG speaker wire & SpeakON Connectors to connect the tactile to the amp.

You saw the (cable guide) which may have helped, although it could do with being updated or improved to be focused more on Simhub.

 

[EsxPaul]

Thanks so much for taking your time to lay that all out for me with such detail @Mr Latte. It's much appreciated.

I have what I think is a decent list of hardware jotted down and I now know that I should be looking to add a usb soundcard to it in order to run the 2 large BKs separately. Thank you for pointing that out.

Would this usb soundcard need to be something very high end with it's own included drivers and EQ software? I know next to nothing about these things and wondered if it could be something such as one of these...

Creative Sound Blaster Play!3
Ugreen USB Sound Card

I picked out the Ugreen model as a substitute in case there might be a driver clash if I use 2 soundcards from the same vendor (i.e. pcie and usb both from Creative). My understanding was that issues could arise if I did that

Apart from the above, I think (hope) I have a relatively sensible hardware shopping list made up:

Creative Sound BlasterX Pure 5.1 soundcard
(TBC) USB soundcard
Behringer Powerplay HA6000
Behringer NX3000D > 2x BK Concert (1 Pedals + 1 Seat)
Behringer EPQ 304 > 4x Dayton exiters (Seat)

I'm ok with the Speakon connectors and 14AWG speaker cable to get from the amp outputs to the transducers.

But I am struggling with the overall topology, which is making the connections between the soundcards and Behringer parts seem tough, making it hard for me to make up a full cabling list. I've got to the point where I'm having to try and draw it out on paper so that I can visualise the connections in my mind.

If I have this right, it goes in this order:

Soundcards > HA 6000
HA 6000 > NX3000D + EPQ 304
NX3000D > 2x BKs
EPQ 304 > 4x exiters

I've also noticed there are options to choose between XLR and 6.35 jacks for the Behringer inputs too. I quite like the 6.35 idea but then I get confused with whether they should be mono or stereo ended at the end that enters the HA6000.

I think if I can lay out the hardware in order, in front of me, that'll help me to clear up the confusion I have.

Also, I want to take note of the strain this subject is/has been putting on you so please don't be in any rush to answer, if at all. This really is stuff I should be able to work out for myself after having read the whole thread and I'm sure I can if I keep plugging away at it

 

[Mr Latte]

Paul, this setup with some nice effects I think could blow you away and you could have a lot of fun with the immersion it brings. Getting into this can often seem a bit like a cliff and in fairness, you have taken the time to read into and understand most stuff.

I think the HA6000 are great and they have that retro look to them with all the LEDs active, seeing all the channels operating and then having the ability to just alter the bass/treble is cool for on the fly tweaking. My vision for these is to use them more when "Game Audio" tactile is either being used (from any source) or for people that want to also mix and experiment with having both being used on a rig.

If you seek really just having the best control and tuning with the exciters then I would recommend looking instead at the t.racks DSP I linked and have ordered. It will give the DSP controls similar to the NXD offers. You can then use a secondary monitor if you want to have its controls on.

I can help with the cables you need but do note that I think both the HA6000 or the t.rack DSP will need 3.5mm from soundcard to "TS" based (mono cables) for each channel and not "TRS" with the additional ring.

For USB soundcard, I would recommend having one that has additional channels for future potential upgrading.
You could use the internal card for BK units to NXD. Then use the USB card and get a 7.1 unit that allows you to use/install up to 8 exciters for more on the seat or to experiment on shifters/pedals or wheelbase effects.

This is widely used and affordable, not sure about its software but "wotever" uses this himself.

LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy

www.amazon.co.uk

I Have a Asus U7 sitting about to be used but I got a good deal on that a good while ago on ebay.

 

[EsxPaul]

Thank you once again for the great information and link.

What I need to be aiming for then, is to substitute the HA6000 with the t.rack DSP to give me more granular control over the 4 exiters.

The EPQ304 and t.rack give me DSP control over the 4 exiters.
The NX300D give me DSP control over the 2 BK Concerts.

I never did quite grasp the reasoning behind when or why we would choose to use game audio over telemetry data. I suppose for someone like me who is new to this, I'd be using telemetry data only to dip my toe in, keep things simple and not get me confused with detailed audio setup files etc.

I'm noticing that those who do use external USB soundcards tend go for the larger, box type enclosures with the extra channels over the more simplified dongle types. I will take a look at the larger enclosures as others are using and you have recommended.

Sorry to labour this point but just so I'm sure, it isn't possible for me to use my onboard audio for one amp and either a pcie or usb soundcard for the other amp? If I understand correctly, I need 2 soundcards that are separate to my onboard audio, which would remain unused.

I have just been playing around on the Thomann site and making up some wish lists to see if I can get somewhere near being on the right track. Sound cards and exiters are excluded:

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah that looks all good including the fancy 8core cabling and SpeakON (you have been doing your homework)

At the moment you only need 6 channels so the onboard audio can be used for those channels
You can always add a USB card if you want to have individual soundcards for the different units and help make it easier regards all Exciters to one card and all BK to another.

Im trying to set a format that people use, that way it makes things easier to explain or discuss.

 

[EsxPaul]

After going back and re reading your posts this morning it's starting to sink into my thick skull a little more. I've noticed that I keep coming back to ask questions that you've already answered, if only I let all of your information sink in instead of selected portions. My apologies for being such a dope

I'm thinking that I might be able to get away with using my onboard audio after all. It's only a bog standard Realtek ALC1150 solution but it does have it's own software EQ controls that will let me turn off all frequencies above 500Hz

I'm thinking 3.5 TRS from the onboard audio to twin 6.35 jack inputs on the NX3000D. That should take care of the 2 BKs although I'm still unsure whether that allows the 2 BKs to behave as mono units or in stereo.

I know I could also use 3.5 TRS to twin XLR inputs but there's something I've not been able to clear up. Through my searches, I can't seem to find 'balanced' versions of either type.

Is it essential to have a balanced cable from soundcards to the t.racks/NX amp or have I completely missed another point?

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Thanks, perhaps read the recent installation from @Codeias who went with 8 units.
I am looking forward to another thread possibly coming from @ScreaminBejesus giving his own views/perspectives. I gave him some help, towards ideas/options with a rather nice custom solution he went with for a challenging installation to his rig.

That's the beauty of the concept, you can start with 2 and expand the number of exciters and I don't see anyone getting into tactile using these and being disappointed.


@Brutal Deluxe do you know the 3M VHB product number that would best suit the Thruster exciters?

It looks like I've damaged one of my Dayton exciters. It started rattling half way through a race and seems like it's definitely damaged. I've been running it close to max for rumble strips and it's obviously been too much for it

I'm about to order a replacement now. I'll try to identify the VHB tape they use once it arrives, hopefully later this week. I'll be back back to confirm.

EDIT - Can't tell which tape it is from the product images so have emailed Dayton.

 

[Mr Latte]

It looks like I've damaged one of my Dayton exciters. It started rattling half way through a race and seems like it's definitely damaged. I've been running it close to max for rumble strips and it's obviously been too much for it

I'm about to order a replacement now. I'll try to identify the VHB tape they use once it arrives, hopefully later this week. I'll be back back to confirm.

EDIT - Can't tell which tape it is from the product images so have emailed Dayton.

Sorry to hear that, this is one of the reasons though I am trying to get people to stick with 50% Simhub/Soundcard volumes as it's easy to crank the units may be a bit much too.

 

[Mr Latte]

Tips For Simhub Users

To help reduce the actual hum/noise some units make and to lower the higher frequencies, do the following to use the crossover feature. It is a tad basic with no changeable drops in dB or type of filters but this can possibly be of use to many of you that we're not sure about using it.

As you cant see what it does, I went to the bother of showing an example.



OPTION 1


In "Sound Output" screen click on Output tuning for the soundcard you are using.




Use these settings:




Example without, notice the high frequencies well beyond 150Hz-200Hz we may use for the upper bass limits
For tactile we do not need these.



Example with crossover applied. Now you can see the cut gradually coming in at @150Hz but reducing the higher frequencies. This will give the units less workload and reduce the noise they generate yet with still produce enough detail on units that can work upto 200Hz



OPTION 2

Potentially Protect Smaller Transducers/Exciters
To help protect small units like the budget transducers and exciters if you are using effects with very low frequencies (below 20Hz). Then also try using the "High Pass Filter" option and set this to 50Hz. This will trim out the very lowest frequencies that smaller units will struggle with outputting but still give a good enough output @30Hz-40Hz that these units usually perform well at.



Compare these settings with above and with both off


Important Note:
This is one additional reason to consider placing BK units on their own soundcard from other smaller units or exciters. A user that does this above to protect their smaller transducers or exciters will probably not want to cut the low bass for the Buttkickers. As this feature cannot (yet) be controlled to specific channels. I believe it will apply the setting to all channels.

So I would advise people that have configurations with different types of transducers or larger shakers. To use one soundcard for the smaller transducers/exciters and one for larger/more upmarket transducers and BK shakers. This way if you do not have DSP controls you can at least bring some control to the units you own via this free option. Users could also apply different settings to each card if they wanted.

I hope this is some help and I'd appreciate it if someone can test and report as I currently have my own rig dismantled as working on the new build.

 

[Mr Latte]

After going back and re reading your posts this morning it's starting to sink into my thick skull a little more. I've noticed that I keep coming back to ask questions that you've already answered, if only I let all of your information sink in instead of selected portions. My apologies for being such a dope

I'm thinking that I might be able to get away with using my onboard audio after all. It's only a bog standard Realtek ALC1150 solution but it does have it's own software EQ controls that will let me turn off all frequencies above 500Hz

View attachment 373518

View attachment 373519

I'm thinking 3.5 TRS from the onboard audio to twin 6.35 jack inputs on the NX3000D. That should take care of the 2 BKs although I'm still unsure whether that allows the 2 BKs to behave as mono units or in stereo.

I know I could also use 3.5 TRS to twin XLR inputs but there's something I've not been able to clear up. Through my searches, I can't seem to find 'balanced' versions of either type.

Is it essential to have a balanced cable from soundcards to the t.racks/NX amp or have I completely missed another point?

For what your spending, I would not skip a cheap secondary soundcard, its your call at the end of the day but keeping track of effects layers is much easier if we have the effects in their folders for the types of units being used and then a specific soundcard for those units and the unique effects/layers we can individually send to them.

Also if you start with this implemented then you don't have to change things later if you go beyond the internal 6 channels from the onboard audio.


I wouldn't worry too much about balanced but you can buy balanced cables. If you really want balanced then its possible but it would likely be best to do it after the DSP unit and between the amp. This can be done with a transformer type unit that will take the unbalanced source and make it balanced. You can also get units that will remove electrical hum or other interference if it was an issue?

Got some cables I might be able to sell you at a fair price if interested but I like Neutrik, quality is brill, you will find loads that are cheaper, but I'm a sucker for a good cable.

Neutrik Mini Stereo Gold 3.5mm Jack to 2 x Male XLR Cable Insert Y Lead Mixer (3 Metre): Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders of £20 or more. Buy Neutrik Mini Stereo Gold 3.5mm Jack to 2 x Male XLR Cable Insert Y Lead Mixer (3 Metre) at Amazon UK.

www.amazon.co.uk

Neutrik 2 m Switchcraft Stereo Splitter : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

Buy Neutrik 2 m Switchcraft Stereo Splitter. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

My fave place for cables

Balanced Leads

Professional Balanced Cables for Performers and Technicians

www.designacable.com

 

[Fabrizio85]

Thanks, perhaps read the recent installation from @Codeias who went with 8 units.
I am looking forward to another thread possibly coming from @ScreaminBejesus giving his own views/perspectives. I gave him some help, towards ideas/options with a rather nice custom solution he went with for a challenging installation to his rig.

That's the beauty of the concept, you can start with 2 and expand the number of exciters and I don't see anyone getting into tactile using these and being disappointed.


@Brutal Deluxe do you know the 3M VHB product number that would best suit the Thruster exciters?

Thanks again Mr Latte, lot of useful informations here.

 

[Michal Burisin]

@michael I'm not getting into all the points with quotes or going to bore to death folk here on differences in views or approaches we may have. I will say that much more creativity is possible both in regards to installation and effects creation. I will cover this a bit below and also things I see with your current platform.

Yeah, probably not the best place to lead this conversation here. I'll get in touch later, when I have more testing done to share findings, if you will be interested.

Today, I finished my rig rebuild and fired it up for the first time, I thought it will be easy (just connect everything and go for a ride), but it was not meant to be.

I started turning on amps one by one as always. But the third amp (iNuke 3000 DSP) was giving one of the BK concerts big periodical thumps (like two in one second, while the unit was mildly bottoming out). I thought there is something wrong with SimHub, so I turned it off. I restarted PC and the thumping was still there even without SimHub running, then I turned the PC off, and it was still thumping, then I turned the volume on amps to zero, and it's still there. So something wrong with the amp then, I noticed the ventilator didn't start and there was red light around volume knobs (normally is orange), the menu on the amp was working normally. I turned it off, plugged in USB, I wanted to reset amp to factory settings, but when I turned it on, there was big crack (noise) and I saw flash inside the amp.

I didn't change any wiring and didn't do anything out of order recently. When I started to rebuild the rig, I just disconnected all the units and now, I just connected them again, I didn't do any big rewiring.

All the BKs are fine (I tested it on another amp).

So now what to do with that dead amp? Any idea what might have happened and why?

I opened it up and I see there is a fuse.

Do you think that this crack / flash was the fuse burning out?

Should I try to get replacement one and try to repair it? I'm little bit scared, that it might destroy the BKs or other equipment, but maybe it's not such a big issue, this never happened to me before, so I'm not sure what to do. Any ideas?

I have helped and spent a lot of time with several members here all with different rigs and its time consuming with all the PM and things I do to get them started. I have more in PM seeking help but I'm needing a break and I get what your saying, you also want to get to enjoy the rig a bit. As for motion I'm getting put off it more than turned towards it as these days it seems one form of motion is not enough and getting one leads to wanting another and in all honesty, I think for every addition we get some loss in the return of each thing applied.

Anyway, after this let down I rewired it to another amp, so I have central units working for engine effect - I had to turn off the seat L / R units for now, as I'm missing one amp.

Then I tried the rig for the first time with all systems I have - Tactile, G-Seat, SFX100, I started to turn them on one by one while doing the testing (around 3 hours so far).

I have SFX100 lowered to 1200 RPM for now (full speed is 3000 RPM), but it feels good already. The heave is perfect and elevation changes via pitch are superb. Roll is not that much noticeable. It was fun, but after half an hour playing with it, it wasn't that "immersive" on it's own and it felt quite dead most of the time, because it delivers just road / suspension effects. I have just some basic setup for now, so it might get better, but it was missing a lot of cues, which I'm used to.

I was missing mainly the engine, braking, wheel slip and some speed sense. Once I turned on the tactile + g-seat, it became perfect experience.

The engine is main effect for me, that keeps me connected to the car and feeling "inside". Then braking effect is must with some ABS locking (motion pitching the car in front is nice addition for transition, but it misses some continuous effect, that tactile can deliver). Also the wheel slip is really crucial. Additional tactile g-forces + speed via tactile are also welcome

Conclusion from this first impression is that motion on its own is good, but it feels "dead" most of the time, maybe it could be improved with some servo tactile effects for engine / wheel slip etc., but I haven't tried.

If I had to choose between SFX100 (2 - 3k investment) vs my tactile setup (6x BK concert + 2x TST 239 - around 4 to 5k investment) I would choose the tactile, because it gives me better overall immersion and more complete feeling with more cues delivered.

But of course, best is to combine both I read someones opinion in SFX thread, that with motion platforms, the tactile becomes obsolete and not necessary at all, but I must say it's not the case - at least in my opinion. As I said, I need to spend more time with SFX profiles etc., but I cannot imagine, it could deliver all the effects, that good tactile setup can.

Turning on G-Seat was another big leap in immersion, these three systems combined are just awesome, cannot wait for new PC with VR to see where it pushes the experience

As you mention @Mr Latte, that with each system added, you have to compromise and / or have some loss in feeling in other systems, that you already have - I think that's probably true in many, if not all cases, but for me, it's definitely worth it.

Right now, I think I have lost like 30 % in tactile feel I had, I think, I will be able to get 15 % back with profiles tuning, installation optimization etc. So it will be loss 15 % in tactile system, while the motion doubles the overall feeling (immersion, enjoyment etc.) by 100 %, that's good trade in my opinion. It adds complete new dimension. The tactile road effects cannot compete with motion and its full heave feeling.

You don't have to get more and more systems with motion, it just choice. I think SFX-100 is good baseline for motion and easiest to get.

Then G-Seats, surge platforms, traction loss etc. are nice additions, but I think it's mostly for DYI inclined people who enjoy the route at the moment. Once more commercial solutions emerge, it might be easier to get these systems.

As bottom line, if you want best immersion, I would suggest to get as much systems as you can, with each system I added, it increased the immersion immensely.

 

[EsxPaul]

@Michal Burisin sorry to hear about your amp troubles

Have you got a multimeter? It does look like there has been a bit of heat around the left fuse holder post so it would be worth checking if that fuse still has continuity.

If it has blown, hopefully it's just one of those random events that can happen and isn't a sign of a more serious fault inside the amp.

Replacement fuses will be cheap and you can buy the type you need (either the 100-120v or 220-240v versions) cheaply online.

 

[AJ McDaddy]

Yeah that looks all good including the fancy 8core cabling and SpeakON (you have been doing your homework)

At the moment you only need 6 channels so the onboard audio can be used for those channels
You can always add a USB card if you want to have individual soundcards for the different units and help make it easier regards all Exciters to one card and all BK to another.

Im trying to set a format that people use, that way it makes things easier to explain or discuss.

As ever, thanks for your help with the tactile community. Question though, how can he drive 6 units with his onboard 5.1 card? Can he use the c/sub channel? If yes, I can send back the external 7.1 sound card I just ordered. Although I am likely to add more exciters in future.

 

[Mr Latte]

As ever, thanks for your help with the tactile community. Question though, how can he drive 6 units with his onboard 5.1 card? Can he use the c/sub channel? If yes, I can send back the external 7.1 sound card I just ordered. Although I am likely to add more exciters in future.

For Simhub usage each output supports 2 channels.

5.1 card = 6 channels
7.1 card = 8 channels

 

[jamescarruthers]

This weekend I tried out a couple of Dayton Thrusters — attached them to the underside of my seat — blown away by the effect.

However, in hindsight, my seat (an old Cobra Monaco Pro from my track day car) doesn't have a good surface to attach the exciters to underneath — it's a simple board that isn't particularly sturdy. This means the board vibrates quite a bit on its own.

I have no plans to upgrade the seat to a composite shell type — so what can I do working in these bounds?

It has a steel frame underneath — which is exposed. I am guessing I could screw/epoxy a surface across the frame to secure the exciters to?

 

[Mr Latte]

@Michal Burisin

Sorry to learn about your amp, you can get these fixed if you find a local repair center. The red rings is a reported issue. You just need to find one that deals with Behringer products. I've had this happen to me with one amp and it too was a "cold start" type scenario. By that, I mean turning the amp on and getting right into the action. It may not be related but I wonder if we should let amps warm up a bit before putting them through the loads of low bass that tactile brings.

You bring up good points of what different forms of immersion can bring and Id agree that tactile can be unique in giving a sense of realism/connection and with various effects or sensations. The tactile is only as good as the units used and the installation they have combined with how good the effects are. So it can still be a varying range of how good/bad what it brings may be.

I think your the first to say something like preferring your tacile to SFX if having to choose but then again you have had pretty comprehensive tactile and not the budget or common units that many people with SFX used to compare these options for immersion. Yes, some in the SFX thread early on said what it offered with its own tactile replaced even the need for needing transducers. I quickly rejected that admist all the early hype and then got hunted for it. In fairness you have not had the SFX at full power yet, so yeah it will be interesting when you try that. Yet I think you are coming from the perspective each offers to feeling the "im in a car" and motion alone is missing a lot of that feel that tactile can bring but the tactile is never going to replace motion and what it adds.

As others have reported with effects like Bumps from SFX is much stronger than tactile will bring but that's to be expected as its a motion-based sensation and also the feel of the whole chassis/user moving up/down. Does it miss out on certain bumps like fast sequence, small saw curbs, or rebound with large elevated curbs. Other than things like engine sensations, nobody talks about what SFX does not do so well and if tactile can be used to improve that on the basis of the car's chassis or wheels.

With the energy the motion brings, this is one reason I questioned does your rig really need L/R based tactile as it may be better to focus on other effects and effects usage that works more for a front/back approach than an L/R or CORNER based configuration. Wheelslip, G-Force, Impacts, Suspension effects can still work well in mono and 2/3/4 units performing a sensation is stronger than 1.

I am interested to discover with the tactile, can we use it to compliment the powerful bumps from the SFX for an improved rebound. Perhaps try using around 14Hz and below but add different levels of delay to an effect. See if you can get an extended sensation from the tactile rather than the tactile almost fighting against the motions power.

This is something I would do to experiment if I had both working but certainly on these forums, SFX owners have not tried or shared in-depth looking at how to use individual effects in merging what both may offer. I agree that combined they all can be like instruments but they need to be configured to work well together rather than any single one either be overbearing or all muddling each other. To achieve that would take time and time towards configuring just as a G-Seat may need to be tweaked to work with 4DOF motion.

The exciters, I would still recommend you buy 2-4 to try on the seat outer shell, they could still bring nice detailing elements to certain effects. They have their own benefits they can bring for tactile and partnering the BKs. Others are starting to now experience this for themselves and the interest is growing based on others sharing their own views, which I like to see, rather than me hammering on and on about it or the potential its shown.

Do keep up the good work of informing us on that awesome rig you have. I am really thinking of selling the bits of SFX that I bought as really my whole build is focused around expanding tactile and audio based immersion.

It's hard to decide, as my own build is well over the original budget and still needs more components for the main build yet to be finished. I want to just enjoy what that brings and have a period where no other things need to be configured or that can go wrong. Some keep seeking more and more but then increasing the complexity of builds and the time/configuring and extra expense they bring. Different ways of looking at it all perhaps. Some may think have something do less but do it really well, maybe better than doing more but it all not so well in sync or fluid with each element.

Having fun is the main goal and reaching a point of being content with the instruments we choose to use coming together.

Speaking of instruments coming together, Kaleidoscope Orchestra are rather amazing.

 

[Michal Burisin]

@Michal Burisin

Sorry to learn about your amp, you can get these fixed if you find a local repair center. The red rings is a reported issue. You just need to find one that deals with Behringer products. I've had this happen to me with one amp and it too was a "cold start" type scenario. By that, I mean turning the amp on and getting right into the action. It may not be related but I wonder if we should let amps warm up a bit before putting them through the loads of low bass that tactile brings.

You bring up good points of what different forms of immersion can bring and Id agree that tactile can be unique in giving a sense of realism/connection and with various effects or sensations. The tactile is only as good as the units used and the installation they have combined with how good the effects are. So it can still be a varying range of how good/bad what it brings may be.

I think your the first to say something like preferring your tacile to SFX if having to choose but then again you have had pretty comprehensive tactile and not the budget or common units that many people with SFX used to compare these options for immersion. Yes, some in the SFX thread early on said what it offered with its own tactile replaced even the need for needing transducers. I quickly rejected that admist all the early hype and then got hunted for it. In fairness you have not had the SFX at full power yet, so yeah it will be interesting when you try that. Yet I think you are coming from the perspective each offers to feeling the "im in a car" and motion alone is missing a lot of that feel that tactile can bring but the tactile is never going to replace motion and what it adds.

As others have reported with effects like Bumps from SFX is much stronger than tactile will bring but that's to be expected as its a motion-based sensation and also the feel of the whole chassis/user moving up/down. Does it miss out on certain bumps like fast sequence, small saw curbs, or rebound with large elevated curbs. Other than things like engine sensations, nobody talks about what SFX does not do so well and if tactile can be used to improve that on the basis of the car's chassis or wheels.

With the energy the motion brings, this is one reason I questioned does your rig really need L/R based tactile as it may be better to focus on other effects and effects usage that works more for a front/back approach than an L/R or CORNER based configuration. Wheelslip, G-Force, Impacts, Suspension effects can still work well in mono and 2/3/4 units performing a sensation is stronger than 1.

I am interested to discover with the tactile, can we use it to compliment the powerful bumps from the SFX for an improved rebound. Perhaps try using around 14Hz and below but add different levels of delay to an effect. See iof you can get an extended sensation from the tactile rather than the tactile almost fitting against the motion.

This is something I would do to experiment if I had both working but certainly on these forums, SFX owners have not tried to look at how to use individual effects in merging what both may offer. I agree that combined they all can be like instruments but they need to be configured to work well together rather than any single one either be overbearing or all muddling each other. To achieve that would take time and time towards configuring just as a G-Seat may need to be tweaked to work with 4DOF motion.

The exciters, I would still recommend you buy 2-4 to try on the seat outer shell, they could still bring nice detailing elements to certain effects. They have their own benefits they can bring for tactile and partnering the BKs.

Do keep up the good work of informing us on that awesome rig you have. I am really thinking of selling the bits of SFX that I bought as really my whole build is focused around expanding tactile and audio based immersion.

It's hard to decide, as my own build is well over the original budget and still needs more components for the main build yet to be finished. I want to just enjoy what that brings and have a period where no other things need to be configured or that can go wrong. Some keep seeking more and more but then increasing the complexity of builds and the time/configuring and extra expense they bring. Different ways of looking at it all perhaps. Some may think have something do less but do it really well, maybe better than doing more but it all not so well in sync or fluid with each element.

Having fun is the main goal and reaching a point of being content with the instruments we use coming together.

Speaking of instruments coming together, Kaleidoscope Orchestra are rather amazing.

Thanks for the info on red rings on iNukes, good that I can start searching for more info.

Anyway I started the amp and had the game paused, so it didn't start from cold to high output.

When you got these red rings, have you managed to get your amp fixed? If so, how much did it cost? Should I tell the service center some specifics when asking for quote on repair?

Also there is no point of replacing the fuse and trying to turn it on, if it wasn't just the fuse (just wishful thinking )?

Anyway in the first thread I have found:

"Most of the people that I have seen try and fix these, or.... even send in to have fixed, end up blowing again shortly. Best to just buy a new one. This is the general intention of most manaufacturers when they sell you these type of units in the first place."

If the amp is dead, I will probably get the NX3000D, but that's quite a financial hit .

Regarding exciters, I'm starting to do little bit of research, but they are quite tall at 32 mm. Still need to figure out, if I can attach them directly to the paddles, or I will have to place them outside on the seat.

Regarding SFX, I will keep testing and maybe get into its tactile setup little bit, but it doesn't make too much sense to me to use actuators for tactile effects - the main impacts are going directly to the ground and the rig is 200+ kg, much better to get tactile closer to the body, than have the rig act as high-powered sledge hammer to deliver detailing of the engine.

I have the feet isolated, but we'll see when I crank up RPM to 3000 The rig is already jumping up and down on crashes on 1200 RPM .

I will test more SFX + tactile bumps integration, on 1200 RPM i didn't get that much detailing on saw curbs for example, but I think it will be better on 3000 RPM.

I would recommend to hang on to SFX, it's really great. I also think, that it doesn't require that extensive profile tuning as tactile does. G-Seat also doesn't require that much, I had it setup when I started and still use the same setup with just minor tweaks and each car is unique, due to its suspension / acceleration / deceleration and other telemetry characteristics.

As I said, it really brings new dimension, that's worth exploring, but it comes all to the budget among other considerations, so I get what you mean.

Once I had all the parts for SFX, I built it in 3 days, so that's very little time invested compared to tactile setup / tuning.

 

[AJ McDaddy]

For Simhub usage each output supports 2 channels.

5.1 card = 6 channels
7.1 card = 8 channels

Ah, Ok, I thought I read a while back that you couldn't use the c/sub channel. Thanks for giving me the good news.