read more: FFB Tweaks

I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

7hNkrdT.png


Gyro Implementation

[ ] Active check to enable
Strength 25% adjust effect strength
AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect.
As of CSP 0.1.53 the strength slider is outdated. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.

Range Compression

Range compression 100% - 100% is the "default off" of this effect
[ ] Range compression assist - check to convert cars' "steer assist" into range compression.

New FFB Tweak available as of 0.1.53. The name comes from the audio world, where dynamic range compression means bringing up the quiet sounds while leaving loud sounds at their original volume. This is a much more second derivative friendly version of the Gamma effect.

The percentage is straightforward: Set it to how much you want to multiply small forces. Or adjust it in sync with your overall gain if you want to maintain the level of small forces and change large forces. For example, 200% compression + 50% gain = original 100% on small forces, larger forces decrease. If you're curious, the curve at the point of maximum force is simply the inverse, 200% compression will cause large forces 50% of the original delta in force. But in combination with 50% gain, you're moving the original maximum force downward and the ceiling before the game clips is much higher.

Think of this like power steering: you only want it to assist the heavy forces and give you maximum feel of the light forces.

This is very much an "adjust to taste" thing, it operates smoothly enough that you're safe running it upward of 300%, and I have seen IRL data indicating that manufacturers effectively go as high as 600% in power steering systems, when they want to bring 20+N forces down to a comfortable 2-3N.

Steer assist is a built in per-car feature of AC that applies a gamma function to that car's FFB. If you check Range compression assist, then FFB Tweaks will calculate an appropriate range compression adjustment, and disable steer assist. This should give you a far more normal FFB feeling (no weird bumps around center) while retaining the original goal of giving high downforce cars enough low-speed FFB to be drivable.
 
Last edited:
may I ask why you use the CSP 1.60 and not the newest ? is there a reason ? shuould I revert back to it ? I am interested above all on FFB etc, not just "candy" ...
2 reasons:
Some mod tracks get "disassembled" by some newer versions. Like the tarmac being vertically instead of horizontally, sky upside down. Crazy stuff...

And I don't like the new cockpit reflections. They are more realistic. When you drive past trees, you'll get the flickering on/off from the sun, like in real life. But I like the more unrealistic, calmer shadows/reflections.

Apart from that there's no reason!
 
Even with these fixes, the SAT is messed up with my G29. If I start to get sideways and let go of the wheel, as soon as the slip angle goes above a certain limit, my SAT vanishes completely and the wheel just spins in one direction until it hits the soft lock, then stops there. Impossible to catch slides in this way. The same happens if I use default Kunow gyro or the CSP corrected one. This is the only sim where it happens, too.

Any hints on how to fix it?
Just a follow-up, I finally managed to find settings that give a reasonable SAT on a G29:

70% gain, 8% minimum force
no gamma, no LUT
fixed CSP gyro on
range compression 200%

That's it. Now the centre is tight and the SAT properly returns the wheel to center without wobbling or over-corrections.
 
Hi!
Which compression rate do owners of the CSl DD recommend. And this steer assist box checked?
And use real forces for DD users only checked 8nm?
Thank you in advance :)
Probably not much compression, you could try real feel, but the wheel probably won’t be quite strong enough for it. That said, pretty much no cars use that feature at the moment anyway. Definitely don’t check the “force enable” checkbox.
 
Probably not much compression, you could try real feel, but the wheel probably won’t be quite strong enough for it. That said, pretty much no cars use that feature at the moment anyway. Definitely don’t check the “force enable” checkbox.
Not much means like 50 or 150%?
I have it at 100 %
And the checkbox next to compression?
My issue with this wheel is that on some cars you feel almost nothing until you corner with 5g
Like the RSS supreme or the vrc 1997 F1
 
Last edited:
Not much means like 50 or 150%?
I have it at 100 %
And the checkbox next to compression?
My issue with this wheel is that on some cars you feel almost nothing until you corner with 5g
Like the RSS supreme or the vrc 1997 F1
100% is doing nothing, it's the default.
Higher values will give you stronger low forces (not sure if you need to raise the gain then though).
So I'd say you should try 100-150%.

Not sure about the rest of the settings...
 
I think even Stereo's description in OP is pretty accurate on what exactly is missing now, or at least my own interpretation matches experience.
Right here.

And this is exactly the problem, it does it too quick now, creating that slap back effect even after understeer as nothing counters self-alignment force.
I will wait for other Simucube users to test and chime in.
The easiest way to reproduce is by using these settings, perhaps even drop Damper to 5% as it does not have to be that high with stock Gyro on that car.
Take KTM XBow to Zandvoort, initiate aggressive turn in with some tire slip and let wheel go with little to no assistance after tires start gaining traction after understeer causing wheel self align. With stock gyro it gets slowly returned to the center position, with new gyro it violently snaps back and even overshoots if not stopped.
The difference is just too obvious and strong to miss.

I think that was my last post on the subject, switching back to stock "wrong" gyro and moving on with my life.
I totally agree with your experiences, I'm a SC2 Pro owner too. I could feel that nasty flip back with the ACL GTC 60's Alfa 33 mod. (I'm using the recommended settings of the dev). Impossible to hold the car on the road when a certain slip angle is reached. The forces are building up so quickly that any reactions is nearby impossible. If you could get the first one, the 2nd will spin you in any case. No real world car I have every driven, reacts so aggressive, with such a build up of forces.

I would be very glad, if this misbehaviour would be solved.
 
I totally agree with your experiences, I'm a SC2 Pro owner too. I could feel that nasty flip back with the ACL GTC 60's Alfa 33 mod. (I'm using the recommended settings of the dev). Impossible to hold the car on the road when a certain slip angle is reached. The forces are building up so quickly that any reactions is nearby impossible. If you could get the first one, the 2nd will spin you in any case. No real world car I have every driven, reacts so aggressive, with such a build up of forces.

I would be very glad, if this misbehaviour would be solved.
Turn off ultra low latency and increase friction and damping. If you continue to have significant issues, the steering geometry of the car is likely incorrect. Refer to the below post for friction settings.

Also, that isn't how the Simucube driver settings work. I just measured, and 100% friction at 25Nm is around 3-4Nm. 1-2Nm is normal in steering racks on unassisted cars IRL. (i.e. the absolute minimum that could possibly make sense while driving a non-PS car in AC would be 25%, and the maximum 67%).
 
Has anyone managed to find good settings for G29 when using FFB Tweaks gyro?
I've tried with all of RasmusP's LUT files, and while they work fine with gyro strength at 0%, anything more makes bumps very violent. Driving something like Ferrari 312/67 on Bremgarten main straight feels and sounds like my wheel is tearing itself apart in agony.
Keeping gyro activated but at 0% eliminates this violet shake, rattle and roll, but it also takes away some details from steering, and makes driving actually too smooth.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much of this wheel? Still, CSP has its part in this, because this problem came with 0.1.74 and everything was fine before that.
 
Has anyone managed to find good settings for G29 when using FFB Tweaks gyro?
I've tried with all of RasmusP's LUT files, and while they work fine with gyro strength at 0%, anything more makes bumps very violent. Driving something like Ferrari 312/67 on Bremgarten main straight feels and sounds like my wheel is tearing itself apart in agony.
Keeping gyro activated but at 0% eliminates this violet shake, rattle and roll, but it also takes away some details from steering, and makes driving actually too smooth.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much of this wheel? Still, CSP has its part in this, because this problem came with 0.1.74 and everything was fine before that.
Gyro at 0% shouldn't do anything.. 0.1.74 changing anything seems quite weird too.
And if anything, higher % should "take away more details" than lower %, since it's only a damping effect, no force output.

So something weird seems to be going on!
 
Gyro at 0% shouldn't do anything.. 0.1.74 changing anything seems quite weird too.
And if anything, higher % should "take away more details" than lower %, since it's only a damping effect, no force output.

So something weird seems to be going on!
Weird indeed. But as far as I know the strength setting hasn't really done anything since CSP 0.1.53.
I just wonder why the gyro setting makes the bumps much more violent, and also increases oscillation on the straights, and I'm trying to find a way to eliminate that. Gyro adds some very nice forces to the steering when cornering, and I'd like to keep that but without the violent bumps.
I thought that maybe someone has found a solution already?

There was some change in CSP 0.1.74, but all I know about that is this: "with 74 CSP added physical gyro".
 
Last edited:
  • Deleted member 197115

Gyro at 0% shouldn't do anything.. 0.1.74 changing anything seems quite weird too.
And if anything, higher % should "take away more details" than lower %, since it's only a damping effect, no force output.

So something weird seems to be going on!
Gyro strength slider is a placebo check, it doesn't do anything.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There was some change in CSP 0.1.74, but all I know about that is this: "with 74 CSP added physical gyro".
I think that adds some gyro effect due to camber change during suspension travel, turned out even though it's only a couple degrees it generates some significant forces due to the way gyro forces come out perpendicular to the original rotation. To some extent left+right cancel out since they rotate opposite ways so it's mostly single tire bumps.
 
Last edited:
I think that adds some gyro effect due to camber change during suspension travel, turned out even though it's only a couple degrees it generates some significant forces due to the way gyro forces come out perpendicular to the original rotation. To some extent left+right cancel out since they rotate opposite ways so it's mostly single tire bumps.
Ok, thanks. So if the car+track combination gives these violent bumps, I guess the only way to soften them enough is to disable CSP gyro completely.
Fortunately, most of the cars and tracks I've tested can handle the enabled gyro without problems.
 
Yeah, you could attribute it to either the car physics being wrong, or the original car being kinda rough to drive, same as some series experiment with very low caster to reduce steering effort and then "realistic ffb" means basically none.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top