PC1 Pcars: A community divided

[Nathan Robinson]

Continuation of Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/banned-for-no-reason.47384/

Its hard to believe a game has taken a community over like this. Now with legal proceedings, its kind of become a joke for simmers. I have been at this a while now and have never seen a game invoke so much negative and positive reaction. May the discussions continue


Ps. While i continue to support pcars, i respect RD for allowing the freedom of expression to all its members.

 

[Marco80]

RFactor 2 doesn't have g27 issues, rFactor 2 sends out raw ffb which us not filtered, every other game filters it, u can filter it in rf2 aswell, just change some settings.

The raw unfiltered data shows the problems with gear driven wheels, so just apply the filters like they are in in all other sims

Did someone say physics and PCars in the same sentence? Those dont go well together, maybe in a year or so but definitely not now, a year of public development, and it still feels much too simplified

 

[Nathan Robinson]

It must be all down to personal experience because I have no issues with FFB and my csr elite. My only real problem with the driving model is when I'm braking through a hairpin and it seems to go around too easy. Other than that, I have no problems with the driving model while driving online. I've had some great pick up races with people, most notably the zonda r at spa. Must have spent 5 laps working on the guy in front of me and finally set him up coming out of eu rouge (spelling?) and out muscled him down the straight. I can see how people who like the challenge of may be put off by the grip levels, but how do we know these cars aren't supposed to have this much grip when not being pushed to the limit?

It is a lot different to the handling of other sims, like rfactor 2, where you have to have an egg under your accelerator at times, but I'm still enjoying my time with pcars and it has given me some good multiplayer racing in the last couple days. I think having a good amount of pc sim racers involved in pcars helps the multiplayer because there is a lot of clean driving going on out there. A lot more than I remember frommy forza 2 days on xbox anyway.

If you read Adam's post and it leads you to believe that you can only race with a controller, than you'd be mistaken. I'm having no issues with a wheel and pedals and pcars. It's not like the sims you're used to, but if everything was a copycat in this world, how would we ever pave new grounds?

 

[André Azevedo]

Played the game today a few hours and like it already, it's not FVA or Game Stock Car in terms of physics and FFB but it's very nice. The main problem is that it's not really prepared to play with F1 wheels apparently, because the in game wheel turns like 3 times more than the real wheel, the driver's hands make real miracles with that wheel, it's really funny. And even like that in very sharp corners i still need a bit more steering. Then i feel like i'm driving a different car when driving the formula A at Spa and Monaco for example. At Monaco it's undrivable, at Spa drives well. So, a good game but a bit frustrating to play with the f1 wheel because what we see on the screen is completely unrealistic, which distracts you very often. The FFB is there but some times seems too unpredictable, the car reacts weirdly sometimes, or with a very heavy reaction or with lack of feel. Maybe my settings aren't good, i don't know.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

PThe FFB is there but some times seems too unpredictable, the car reacts weirdly sometimes, or with a very heavy reaction or with lack of feel. Maybe my settings aren't good, i don't know.

Welcome to the world of simcade racing games.
All my real PC sims are the benchmarks for FFB and steering precision, no such luck with simcade games.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

It is a lot different to the handling of other sims, like rfactor 2, where you have to have an egg under your accelerator at times,

rf2 and iracing, but these seem to be difficulty simulators that require precise and expensive equipment so they can drive as well as "lesser" sims, lol.

I compare pcars to either netkar, GTR evo best cars, or GSC, and by that criteria, they've yet to produce a sim by my reckoning, whereby I judge the basic relationship between the car, the track and the controller.....stuff like epic weather and pit animations are meaningless to me without the physics/FFB being of sim standard.

And we can't have it both ways, ie, whilst it's reasonable to criticize both rf2* and iracing, I don't think it's fair that we also pretend that GTR evo and co are too hard to drive as that's BS designed to allow pcars to slot into the one and only sim category.

*the modders might resurrect rf2, but ISI are horribly inconsistent.

As usual, there's outrageous and hilarious BS being spoken at WMD, ie, pcars is so good it's ready for release, LOLOLOL......do these blatant liars actually play the game, or are they just counting their future earnings.

Pcars is a GFX mess on my system, and looking at pcars vs F1 2012, pcars is nothing special as far as GFX go, but that aside, they keep cocking up the builds, so at about b207, things were looking promising, but atm, it's not worth driving.

 

[KAMPFBIBER81]

David, a lot of logging has been enabled. A. Garton posted a new settings file with logging disabled and you will have the performance back.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

I spent more time this weekend with multiplayer than the previous 3 months combined. There were some great drivers and some great battles and i really had a good time with it. There is still work to do but i dont think its not worth driving. Some of the car track combos were very good.

 

[Adam B. Shaw]

If you read Adam's post and it leads you to believe that you can only race with a controller, than you'd be mistaken. I'm having no issues with a wheel and pedals and pcars. It's not like the sims you're used to, but if everything was a copycat in this world, how would we ever pave new grounds?

im not saying everyone has my issue, but it's not exactly uncommon for people to have tons of wheel issues. im glad you aren't having these problems but they are genuine. just out of curiosity how much time to you spend calibrating your wheel after new builds typically? or does it more or less work out of the box for you?

the reason i brought up physics is, even with a controller, i still dont find it to be what i was expecting (sim quality). major bugs like touching walls sending you in the exact same direction you just came from. to things like the back of the car not stepping out until it's snapped around in the entry to turns.

Played the game today a few hours and like it already, it's not FVA or Game Stock Car in terms of physics and FFB but it's very nice. The main problem is that it's not really prepared to play with F1 wheels apparently, because the in game wheel turns like 3 times more than the real wheel, the driver's hands make real miracles with that wheel, it's really funny. And even like that in very sharp corners i still need a bit more steering. Then i feel like i'm driving a different car when driving the formula A at Spa and Monaco for example. At Monaco it's undrivable, at Spa drives well. So, a good game but a bit frustrating to play with the f1 wheel because what we see on the screen is completely unrealistic, which distracts you very often. The FFB is there but some times seems too unpredictable, the car reacts weirdly sometimes, or with a very heavy reaction or with lack of feel. Maybe my settings aren't good, i don't know.

you should be able to calibrate that out with wheel settings. the "turn your wheel full range, then turn it 90 degrees" thing should take that out.
it didn't help my negative ffb randomly happening thing, or no ffb in turns then almost impossible to turn once straight. that i cant work out. but the turning thing has worked every time.

(if anyone knows how to fix that in other games id love to know. i remember playing a few titles that i couldn't get that to go away when i first got my wheel.)

 

[André Azevedo]

im not saying everyone has my issue, but it's not exactly uncommon for people to have tons of wheel issues. im glad you aren't having these problems but they are genuine. just out of curiosity how much time to you spend calibrating your wheel after new builds typically? or does it more or less work out of the box for you?

the reason i brought up physics is, even with a controller, i still dont find it to be what i was expecting (sim quality). major bugs like touching walls sending you in the exact same direction you just came from. to things like the back of the car not stepping out until it's snapped around in the entry to turns.


you should be able to calibrate that out with wheel settings. the "turn your wheel full range, then turn it 90 degrees" thing should take that out.
it didn't help my negative ffb randomly happening thing, or no ffb in turns then almost impossible to turn once straight. that i cant work out. but the turning thing has worked every time.

(if anyone knows how to fix that in other games id love to know. i remember playing a few titles that i couldn't get that to go away when i first got my wheel.)

Already did it. Other people are having the same problem with F1 wheels. The only way to turn it drivable is setting the steering lock at 600o or less, but the more you low that the more the in game wheel rotates... Playing with helmet cam is a bit ridiculous because of that, you can't concentrate. With a steering lock at 900o ou 1080, i need to work with the wheel like a Drift wheel. They really need to sort that out.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

1. calibrate to full rotation of your wheel
2. set Steering Sensitivity to 50% (linear)
3. use Steering Ratio slider to speed up or slow down steering response

 

[Ryan Vickery]

I have not noticed such issues with the F1 car. Can you explain further on what you mean by "F1 wheel"?

As in Thrustmaster GT5 wheel with Ferrari rim? or Fanatech Clubsport with the F1 wheel? Really the fact that it is an F1 wheel should have no bearing on how it reacts in game, if I replaced the rim of my G27 with an F1 wheel mod it would be no different in the game. With that said, the last time I drove the F1 car it was working properly, as you would expect it to.

The issues you're describing sound a lot like what would happen If I was to set my wheel to a really low rotation (like 200) in the logitech profiler while the game still thinks I'm running 900 degrees.

 

[André Azevedo]

I assumed that because other people were saying the same when i posted that in wmd forum. Anyway, in case someone has the same wheel and is suffering from the same issue...

After some test, found a way to match both wheels in a realistic way:

Maximum lock in the thrustmaster control pannel.
When calibrating the wheel in game, set the 90o angle to 700o.
Then, Steering sensitivity at 90.

All the suggested ways before didn't work...

 

[Marco80]

I'm not the biggest fan of iracing, I let my subscription run out after trying GSC 2012 and rFactor 2, iracing felt much too dull after playing those 2, especially RF2, but in it's defense, I don't know what u mean by rf2 and iracing are difficulty sims, and that you therefor compare pcars to Netkar and GSC. If anything, rf2 and iracing should be compared to Netkar and GSC as those 4 are clearly all prosims where as pcars is total simcade.

Also, to the people saying there is nothing wrong with the ffb in project cars and stuff like that, well just because a game is simcade doesn't mean it has to have messed up ffb and physics issues, after all, some cars in forza and gt5 have good ffb as well, doesn't mean they are hardcore sims, just means the developers did a good job with the ffb.

Simcade doesn't mean there are ffb issues and retarded physics characteristics, it just means the physics are overall more simplified and basic, not as dynamic, which can also mean there is not enough variation of car characteristics and overall handling dynamics relative to what's goin on with the throttle, brake, steering inputs, what's going on with the constantly changing loads from corner to corner of the vehicle mass, how the tiny changes in ride height are constantly affecting the physics and tyres etc. etc. etc. etc

The physics, even with this first version of this new tyre model are better, but still feel wayyy too dull and boring (just fine for a regular racing game but not even remotely close to actual true sims). It's so easy to just repeat the way you do a corner lap after lap, without any variation in handling or corrections for eg. under braking, turn-in, entry, mid corner, etc etc. It suprisingly still feels like there are some kind of hardcoded aids on in the background, even when you have them set all off. It feels like there's some kind of secret aid that helps you just a tiny bit with your steering and your line, just a little bit.

Now the game is still fun of course, but I can have fun battling at Suzuka with Ferrari Enzos and Lamborghinis in forza or granturismo, having a fun time driving, and sweating, and feeling the pressure, and getting immersed into the racing experience, and having awesome battles, has nothing to do with how prosim/sim or simcade or arcade a game is, as you can have that experience with all 3 genres (especially the first 2).

So I'm glad you had an awesome time battling with the zondas at spa, having a game's experience put a smile on your face is one of the most important things ,

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I', I don't know what u mean by rf2 and iracing are difficulty sims, ,

It simply means that I judge both iracing and "most" cars in rf2 as unrealistically hard to drive, however rf2 has the advantage of being moddable and saved by the modders, it's still got all the potential in the world, but is a huge let down to me 10months in.

I haven't tried pcars STM yet, but last build sucked and unless STM performs miracles, I'd tend to agree with simcade.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

David, didnt we have an agreement not to derail discussions anymore. Stay on topic.

 

[Marco80]

The only reason I could see, that can make (rf2) too hard to drive, is the fact that there are still some issues with oversteer (much improved upon the rf1 engine though), not in all cars, and not in all situations, but there are times when the oversteer seems to be too snappy and hard to correct, yes in that regards I do believe rf2 is too difficult.

Having said that, getting snap oversteer doesn't happen too often, so with regards to the remaining 99% of the vehicle dynamics model, I believe rf2 is bloody amazing, and am super super impressed with it, in terms of a pure driving point of view, and believe even at this early stage, with unfinished physics, unfinished content, that unfinished content being just stock ISI stuff, and the entire game engine as a whole being still very very much in development, that it is already the best in terms of OVERALL physics (some overly hard oversteer to correct aside).

Remember every sim has flaws, no such thing as a perfect physics model, it's just that some sims's flaws are more frustrating than others' like certain oversteer moments being harder to save then they should in rf (less so in rf2 but still there sometimes).

By the way I am no fan boy, along with rFactor 1 and 2, I own Simbin and blimey games, GSC 2012, Netkar Pro, used to play a lot of the original Netkar namie, and I had a little stint with LFS a few years back aswell, and like I said above I was subscribed to iracing for a good 2 years probably more, up until a few months ago.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

David, didnt we have an agreement not to derail discussions anymore. Stay on topic.

But I clearly am on topic, I'm discussing pcars and it's general nature and relation to other sims.
And why am I being warned, Marco's "technically off topic" as well{not that I care one bit as it's interesting}......but it seems you've decide to target me.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

No I havent decided to target at you. Just keep things on topic and don't always discuss four different game in each topic.

Same for Marco in this thread btw.

 

[Marco80]

Ok, to get back on target, if anyone has read the very recent q&a from kunos, u can there see the amazing difference between a proper down to earth and genuine persons' answers, vs the complete PR and marketing typical big corporate company garbage we get from another company

 

[Kazumi]

I agree with Bram but... if it's related to "community" (which is the OP and thread about) then how and when is it off-topic in this thread?

Ok, to get back on target, if anyone has read the very recent q&a from kunos, u can there see the amazing difference between a proper down to earth and genuine persons' answers, vs the complete PR and marketing typical big corporate company garbage we get from another company

Yes, they seem very honest and professional . But that's what it takes for a sim developer in my opinion.

But I clearly am on topic, I'm discussing pcars and it's general nature and relation to other sims.
And why am I being warned, Marco's "technically off topic" as well{not that I care one bit as it's interesting}......but it seems you've decide to target me.

Perhaps he's referring to #405 ?

No need to flak ISI or others in this thread even if they may deserve it IMHO. Although I think ISI are aware that their quality in terms of content isn't as consistent as it could be. That's actually one thing were they improved and/or still trying to improve compared to rFactor 1 at its time.