old threads merged

[Stefan Woudenberg]

I know Marco Bijl , I followed that threat for some time... But at least we have an idea what you get for your money.

 

[Stefan Woudenberg]

Pretty fun to drive, too much grip I would say though.

It's quicker than the Nissan GTR GT1 which is much harder to drive.

 

[Teemu Toikka]

Yeah, it has way too much grip. I wouldn't pay 5 euros for this.

 

[Stefan Woudenberg]

Yeah, it has way too much grip. I wouldn't pay 5 euros for this.

Me neither, but it's still is far from finished. No cockpit, no mirrors, the model on the outside has some issues when looking from the TV cam etc. It's like rF2..beta!

I like the model though, it looks great and gives me the feeling of DTM kinda racing.

 

[Marco Bijl]

Lets hope the feedback will let them decrease the grip levels then. I somehow can find myself buying great content, but then it DOES have to be great. There is enough free stuff around, if you are looking for just ok. If they want us to pay, they have to deliver a product. Lets hope they will do so, as it does have potential imo.

 

[Trebor901]

 

[Marco Bijl]

The fact that content needs to be bought, is no problem. People spent hours, days perhaps months creating things, and supporting it. Not more then normal that those people want something in return.
It does have to be superb if it needs to be bought, and thats the idea of this modmaker (not saying it IS superb, but thats the idea).
We are talking about people with a gaming pc of around 400 - 1000 euro, a steering wheel of 250 euro, some with pedals of 250 euro, triple screens and so on. And now we are making a problem of 5 euro as in can't afford? Sorry, but to me, not spending that 5 euro for GOOD content is a problem of priority. It's not a problem being able to pay, it;s a problem willing to pay (which is everyones good right offcourse).

Like I said, it all depends on the quality of the mod.

In terms of your statement about the cars, I can't help but wondering the same. In principle, it's a copy under a different name. Now I know a bit about copyright and stuff, and little changes are needed to comply with the law, but still, it is just about a 1 on 1 copy.

 

[Norman Bruce]

I don't really know about copyright laws but I reckon the car design is a part of the copyright, not just the name and the badge. Just how the cars look might alert the car manufacturers, especially if there is money being exchanged.
I would probably pay for a mod but only if it was good quality and popular with the community, I would need to get my money's worth from it.

 

[Marco Bijl]

Well Norman, mostly a minor change in the looks, make it another car. I know it's associated easy with the orignal brand, but it's not identical, so different. At least thats the way patent law works imo.
Making an exact copy is illegal. Otherwise, licensed vehicles in games would not be needed.

Take a look at the Burnout range a while back. No manufacturers wanted to get their cars crashed, so no licenses (or just about no licenses) where provided. Result, all the cars had different names, but still looked recognizable to the public. Because they where not identical, it's ok by law.

 

[Trebor901]

But these two are just Audis and BMW's without the badges

 

[Gary Lennon]

Motor manufacturer copyrights extend well beyond the name, the badges, the logo's etc., they own and fiercely protect the actual shape and designs and those unmistakable details like grills-light shapes-wheels, and the recent Enduracers Vs. Porsche saga taught us they actually own that entire shape and profile of car body, call it what you want and put a mock up badge on and it won't matter, they will demand a complete reshape until it doesn't look like a Porsche anymore.

 

[Marco Bijl]

Indeed Gary. It has to be different. At least in some aspects, as the examples you mention. You need to change some actual shapes, wings, mirrors and stuff like that, so it does not reflect the exact porsche, audi or BWM. However, change it so that it is not the same shape, but surely recognizable, and there is no problem again, as they did with the BurnOut theme.

In this specific case, to me it looks like a breach of copyright. The cars are just about exactly alike, just a different name and/or badge. Combine that with the fact that the creator is looking to make some money (whether he deserves it or not is not relevant in this), and you have a possible law suit pending....

It seems like a dangerous mod to be working on to me. I wouldn't put my name in this, thats for sure....

 

[morsify]

For me, there are too many good quality mods around for me to need to pay for this.
There is one thing that would persuade me to pay - no matter how good the free mods are, the one thing they all lack is well developed AI spread, varying car physics, consistent difficulty level through a whole season for offline racing, and well developed and tested tyre wear, refuelling and mechanical failures - the whole field is usually packed together for the entire race, the car performances are usually too similar, and the tyres and fuel situations are always unpredictable. I spend more time editing these files to create a competitive season than I do actually racing. If someone could produce a high quality mod with real emphasis on the offline championship and all the points mentioned, then it would be worth my money.

 

[Tom]

I, for one, wouldn't mind paying a few dollars if it's a really good mod. However, as long as the series is fictional I wouldn't pay more than 2-3$ since I dislike having fantasy names in a game.

 

[Trebor901]

But with stuff like this even if it is $5 you will get a devide between the people who can/cant afford it and will/wont buy it. The people who cant afford it and yes it is possible even at "only" $5 will feel left out and it could make them think, why bother buying the sim in the first place when you can go out and get a game for a console for £30 and have them cars already there.

Then theres the thing of them being un-licenced. If we start getting mod groups or whatever you would call them trying to licence cars then the prices of the addon cars will outweigh the price of the sim which is just silly. Simraceway is a good example of this, they're charging up to $30 for one Mclaren Formula One car.

 

[Tom]

You need hardware worth several hundreds of Dollars / Euros to play rFactor2 properly. 5$ / 5€ shouldn't make too much of a difference in that case.

 

[Teemu Toikka]

Can't afford 5 euros/dollars? How were they even able to get a copy of the sim?
I don't mind paying for a mod, as long as it's realistic and fun enough. I might have money to spend but I don't want to spend it on bs.
But I want to keep my hopes high, this is a brilliant concept.

 

[Trebor901]

You need hardware worth several hundreds of Dollars / Euros to play rFactor2 properly. 5$ / 5€ shouldn't make too much of a difference in that case.

no you dont, the pc can cost a lot but you dont HAVE to have a wheel or cockpit, a gamepad is perfectly addiquate for someone starting out in sims.Unless of course you're in the sad act class who feel the need to dress up in helmet and race gloves to play a GAME. Also how old were you when you started sim racing? i know i was under the age where i had any income, which means unless the new kids to sim racing are spoilt rich brats then they arent gonna be able to afford this. Some peoples ignorance to money on these types of forums is laughable, to you it might be "only" $5 to someone else that is a lot on top of whatever they've already payed for the sim/ hardware

 

[Marco Bijl]

Rob, you are reacting as if it's either no racing, or all racing. Thats nonsense.
There are more then enough options to drive. There is a lot of free content, which will always be around, so the options are there to drive.

As in real life, quality costs money. We all want to drive the best cars out there, but we can't (most at least). So, we pick one we can afford.
Does that mean that Ferrari and Lamborgini are mistreating us? Because they exclude us from driving their car? They "force" us to drive an opel, or VW?
It's an exclusive product, so it costs exclusive money. A choice they made, which we have to respect. Same with this (as long as its a quality product).

Please remember that modding teams spent a LOT of their time on the projects. Why should they do that all for free? Because we, as humanity, are to cheap to spend a few dollars/euro's?
We should be GLAD that there are people dedicating their time and energy into making something for US! Appreciate the fact that a lot are doing it for free, but do not expect the whole world to make things for free Thats not the way life works....

Simracing is a hobby. Hobby's cost money. Simple. Simracing is a relative cheap hobby. My other hobby's cost multiple times the money I have to spend on simracing. If it's quality stuff, you are free to choose if you want to buy it or not. Nobody is forcing you. Not your fellow simracers, and not the mod developers.

 

[Trebor901]

BUT its becoming an adults hobby only, the good thing of sim racing used to be you had people of all ages racing against each other and racing well if they were in a league at least, and now unless you have generous parents you wont get that because the adults or people with income will be able to race these good quality pay mods where as the people who are too young to work or dont have parents willing to pay for stuff for them will have to use the non pay stuff which could end up being the bad quality mods with this new paymod structure.