Next Level Racing Motion Plus platform

revdox · Dec 27, 2022

StuyoDGr8 said:
No, regrettably I do not have access to test other motion platforms (in my country this is not popular hobby). The only platform I can test is DOF H3 (we have racing club using them), but this is not a platform I consider using for numerous reasons. All my assumptions were based on reviews from a year ago. Yet there are not so much real reviews out there and information is scarce - only by testing all of it real assumptions can be made.
Above i was referring not to linear speed, was meaning acceleration. Yes, on paper linear the motion plus is slower, but acceleration is ridiculously fast - it has less travel, small footprint, “wheelbase” is very narrow - this translates to very fast and long roll travel. I had to turn it down a lot as in sharp turns it is violently fast. Wonder how these terms translate to a new gen RS Mega+. Currently I am considering adding second M+ in the back or switch altogether to RS - price is the same.
It is tough decision as I see currently SRS software has also haptics. I have very limited space so not sure if I can fit Mega+ or will have to go with the RS Mini. For the NRL M+ I really like the small footprint, overall very good performance, very quiet operation and most notably very little vibrations travelling to floor (because of its construction). All these i would like to keep and am wondering how they translate in RS Mega+ install. As I said - tough decision and real fear of missing out
And another point - both NRL platforms are virtually unsellable second hand locally so I am forever stuck with them.

i tried the NLR Motion Plus (Front Mount) with my already loved NLR v3 Seatmover for a few weeks now... today i got the RS Mega+ Kit and i will swap the NLR Motion Plus with the RS Mega+ and will check how it works together with my NLR V3... i will keep u updated....

Metla · Jan 13, 2023

revdox said:
i tried the NLR Motion Plus (Front Mount) with my already loved NLR v3 Seatmover for a few weeks now... today i got the RS Mega+ Kit and i will swap the NLR Motion Plus with the RS Mega+ and will check how it works together with my NLR V3... i will keep u updated....

Any update?

I'm keen to hear how they compared.

StuyoDGr8 · Jan 23, 2023

Metla said:
Any update?

I'm keen to hear how they compared.

Yes, me too. Trying to decide shortly should i buy second M+ or switch to RS Mega (mini or +) altogether. Prefer the simplicity and neatness of M+, but RS mega is same price for whole setup…

revdox · Jan 23, 2023

hi guys... sry for the delay... here is a quick comparison....

i had the motion plus in the front and the nlrv3 under the seat obviously... keep in mind that i only play in vr and i only tested AC extensivly...

first round with default settings... i instantly got motion sick... so i did the following settings... heave/roll/pitch to the motion plus and surge/sway to the nlrv3... was much better but for example on the long bumpy straight on the nordschleife i still got a bit motion sick... so i decided to blend in heave with the nlrv3 too to compensate for the lacking back unit... this gave me the best compromise to match the body feel with the visual cues...

i always felt the motionplus to be too grainy/noisy on roadtextures while also beeing too slow to replicate the rippled texture of a curb while driving fast on them (keep in mind only a few curbs are really 3d modelled in ac). when you drive slowly on them you feel the tok..tok..tok...tok... but when going fast and therefore the frequency goes up the motion flattens fast and you wont get any feedback (tried with sharpness 2.5 too)....

overall i didnt like the motion feedback with both units as much as i did with the nlrv3 at its own... i cant really pinpoint exactly why... it just distracted me more than feeling natural...

some impressions for the rs mega+... it can produce the high frequency tok...tok..tok... when going on curbs fast while beeing not so grainy/noisy on normal roadtexture.... because i have 4 actuators i could set heave fully to the rsmega while turning it completely off for the nlrv3 (this is the most felt upgrade over the setup i had before so maybe two motionplus systems can overcome this shortage i had)... the rsmega can generally go much faster and violent in movement than the motionplus (if wanted, u can set it very tame too in the srs software)

motionsickness in general was a good amount less for me with the rsmega wich may indicate a more in sync motion and visual cue....

the rsmega operates quieter than the motionplus (this didnt bother me and my nlrv3 is still in use and "loud" so it makes no real difference for me, but just for information)

overal the rsmega does not feel extreeeemly different than the motionplus but more potent and fast while being more smooth at the same time (i generally had sharp settings on both systems to reduce latency by smoothing)

feel free to ask specific questions or how it feels in specific scenarios if you want ill try to share my experience as good/detailed as i can...

sidenote: if i could only have ONE motiondevice out of the three, it would be the nlrv3 (this unit did the best job for me in vr, but paired with the rsmega for chassis/suspension movement [absolutely no gforces are replicated with it on my settings, they are all done by the nlrv3] i would consider it a good upgrade)

just for you to compare my settings on the nlrv3 are now: gain 0.45, surge 1.0, sway 0.80, brakebiased at 0.15... sharpness for all activadet cues 2.50 everything else off

RCHeliguy · Jan 23, 2023

Latency is a bitch. The brain does not like it at all.

I think getting two motion systems is sync definitely harder than dialing either in by itself and could be more of an issue than the latency is.

I would also be concerned about what you lose from your chassis motion because of the play in the NLRv3 universal joint. It could also cause some wobbling which certainly wouldn't help with nausea.

revdox · Jan 23, 2023

RCHeliguy said:
Latency is a bitch. The brain does not like it at all.

I think getting two motion systems is sync definitely harder than dialing either in by itself and could be more of an issue than the latency is.

I would also be concerned about what you lose from your chassis motion because of the play in the NLRv3 universal joint. It could also cause some wobbling which certainly wouldn't help with nausea.

my nlrv3 is mounted with special brackets very deep (low) inside the rigframe to minimize leveraged forces to the seat... i cant feel any play (i can feel it though when turning off surge and i want to brake, then the seat moves a bit backwards with makes me motion sick instantly... when powered on surge the motors in the nlrv3 move when braking and compensate the gear lash instantly) sideways i cant feel any play in the seat while playing

RCHeliguy · Jan 23, 2023

revdox said:
my nlrv3 is mounted with special brackets very deep (low) inside the rigframe to minimize leveraged forces to the seat... i cant feel any play (i can feel it though when turning off surge and i want to brake, then the seat moves a bit backwards with makes me motion sick instantly... when powered on surge the motors in the nlrv3 move when braking and compensate the gear lash instantly) sideways i cant feel any play in the seat while playing

Mine was submerged pretty well into my SimLab P1 chassis using large 1/4" thick aluminum angle, and even though while in game there isn't obvious slop in the universal joint, there is room for motion. Between your weight and the seat, etc.. there is no way to avoid a little bobble head action if your chassis motion has any power to it.

StuyoDGr8 · Jan 23, 2023

Thanks for the input - exactly the discussion I am looking for! Now it is even harder to decide.

I have a question that interests me - do you feel any lag now that you have to use separate software to control everything? For example now I have SimHub Sending data to NLR Manager and if I add another one then it goes down the loop.

As for the VR - I use AC mainly for drifting and occasional lap around the Ring but never set it up properly to work with both platforms.
I spent most of my time in rally DR2/WRC10/WRCG. In DR2 I really like how everything works together. I really feel all the bumps, jumps and in VR I get the effects when I expect them. I can even feel my backend sliding because of the V3. What I noticed is that in every game it feels totally different and I have to play with settings a lot.
What I noticed is that almost everywhere both the Chassis and Motion settings I tend to set almost at the same level - this gives me the most constant feel.
And yes, V3 has lot of play in it but when driving it is almost gone. I am definitely keeping it at least for surge and heave, also for Flight Sims.

The Mega+ being quieter is also bonus but as stated above - V3 is louder and my servo belt tensioner even more...

The whole complexity in my setup comes from the fact that I want to keep the monitors mounter to the chassis.

I am at the current status now:

NRL M+ second platform in the back
Pros:
Same platform
Ease of installation
Like the feel, but never tried anything else
Low power footprint
Direct compatibility with the other two platforms
Will still fit in the limited space I have
Cons:
Pricy
Have to put the V3 higher which means also the monitor - I am almost out of vertical space currently as is. Was considering to put it behind seat mover but then I will lose lot of pitch angle...
FearOfMissingOut - maybe RS is much better after all

RS Mega+ (or mini which will solve my spacing problems)
Pros:
Pricewise the same but if I manage to sell the NLR M+ it will be much ceaper
Full sized motion platform, powerful enough and able to carry lot of weight
Much higher pitch angle
Cons:
More cumbersome install
Power drain - by specification i eats up lot of power - my electric installation at home is not that great...
Almost certain I will hit height limit but have the option to invert the seatmover brackets and drop it in the cockpit.
Have to use another software for motion

And another question - any idea how the roll angle of Mega+ compares to Motion+? As at least on this parameter I suspect the NLR platform is comparable. As for the total travel - it is almost on par as a DBox system, currently am satisfied, I presume if I finally add second one it will finally have good Pitch angle...

revdox · Jan 24, 2023

i did not experience any lag using simhub for buttkicker, srs for rsmega, forceseatpm for nlrv3

maybe this is because the games i play do not need udp forwarding but use shared memory....

cons for the rsmega may be:

emi issues (i did not experience any but my electrical installation is fairly new (good grounding etc)

installation space and wiring needed(u need a small server rack for the servo drives)

power draw should be effectivly around 350w for the rsmega system (i read this online in forums and did not measure it myself)

roll angle is a bit more than the motionplus but is never needed i think... roll is more than enough in the motionplus at least for simracing... pitch is much more on the rsmega and this is felt when climbing elevation changes on tracks like laguna seca or the nordschleife.... (at least in my settings)

this infos are for the 150mm rsmega+ (i set it up to 140mm (for actuator safety 10mm safety margin) in the controller and im only using max 75% of this angles by software.... the rsmini only has 100mm max (keep that in mind)

StuyoDGr8 · Jan 24, 2023

revdox said:
i did not experience any lag using simhub for buttkicker, srs for rsmega, forceseatpm for nlrv3

maybe this is because the games i play do not need udp forwarding but use shared memory....

cons for the rsmega may be:

emi issues (i did not experience any but my electrical installation is fairly new (good grounding etc)

installation space and wiring needed(u need a small server rack for the servo drives)

power draw should be effectivly around 350w for the rsmega system (i read this online in forums and did not measure it myself)

roll angle is a bit more than the motionplus but is never needed i think... roll is more than enough in the motionplus at least for simracing... pitch is much more on the rsmega and this is felt when climbing elevation changes on tracks like laguna seca or the nordschleife.... (at least in my settings)

this infos are for the 150mm rsmega+ (i set it up to 140mm (for actuator safety 10mm safety margin) in the controller and im only using max 75% of this angles by software.... the rsmini only has 100mm max (keep that in mind)

Thanks - you answered my other question as well - can i limit the total travel. The RS Mini is actually 50mm - this is why i was thinking to buy the Mega+ and limit it.

And for shared memory - yes, no lag. Actually I use UDP in DR2 for example: SimHub->NLR PM->Fanalab and do not see noticeable delay.

I also read today power draw is 300-350W which is great. Also read before for EMI, but they switched to shielded cables and presumably it is OK now. I have already space provided for the drivers - have auxiliary 8040 structure next to rig for PSUs and other extras - will extend it. Have space for cables - with already 2 platforms in place currently will not be an issue.

I lowered roll a lot on NRL as at 100% it is ridiculous. Guess will do the same in RS (have TV on one side and wall on other - have to be careful).

I am leaning more towards the RS now - really prefer DIY, will allow me to drop the V3 lower which will also Monitor height down. Currently my rig is 12cm from ground, RS sits at 5cm - Total max height is 20cm as opposed to 15.5 from NRL. Seems I will be able to accommodate it with 100-140 travel limit and the V3 drop.

StuyoDGr8 · Jan 29, 2023

So, unfortunate update on my side - the M+ suffered mechanical failure and is up for warranty. It was under normal use, I drive it at mild settings and have only 71 hours of use. Seems the mechanism inside disconnected and here is the result:

I was just about to write this weekend long time use review but instead was dismantling the rig... I guess this is on hold now ate least till I see how warranty goes

With M+ dead I notices that the V3 is so powerful that it rocks the whole rig on the swivel arm behind. This is something like passive motion, but is not very pleasant - has delay in it and is distracting - thus I am back on the old vibration leg supports. Either way platform had to be removed and prepared for shipping.

Have to say with the V3 still in place I do not miss greatly the M+. Yes, it is good, fun, but only front platform and virtually no pitch does not add up this great experience to the V3. Keep in mind I still have lot of Aura bass shakers so suspension, engine vibration and half the things M+ provided are still here - without them it would be big gap.

Here also a side note - M+ is powerful platform for its size definitely, BUT: after I put my monitor on integrated mount it lost some of the snappiness - the great bump response and engine vibrations were definitely diminished. This makes me wonder how it will feel in the back with the additional weight of the V3 seatmover. On the other hand - if you switch to 4 actuators I presume will feel totally different - having this rocker arm in the back always felt little strange. I noticed it adding some additional roll at high speed direction transitions - this definitely will be gone with active system behind which prevents rocking.

Based on the above I am really rethinking is it worth buying two M+ as single install as expected is not enough. Currently I am leaning more towards getting rid of it and investing in RS Mega+. Even staying without additional motion only with the V3 is considerable...

revdox · Feb 1, 2023

keep us updated

CaptainBigleux · Feb 12, 2023

I was following this thread quietly. I finally decided to jump into dynamic rig world, just ordered my FGT Elite & Motion plus.
And now I see your failure unit. Please keep us posted about the outcome, very hard to find information from users.
My motion+ is a "used" one found on amazon. It's sold and shipped by amazon, so I hope it's only a customers that changed his mind after receiving the box, or just couple of hours of use. but reading about your failure make me worried...

Also, I'm already thinking about mounting.
Should it be front or back.
I believe front mounting would give more braking sensation. But rear mounting would give more acceleration and road/bump texture.
Also I'm not a light guy, so probably safer to run in the front.
I think braking sensation is more important, and I already have couple of bass shakers directly under the seat, so it would compensate the road/bump ?

PS : I drive only in VR, so I won't have the monitor on the rig. Is the VR compensation useful with only 1 motion+ (no V3) ?

StuyoDGr8 · Feb 14, 2023

I have extensive shaker system (6 Auras, 2 daiton bst-1 and 4 exciters) and it totally compensates the feel in the back (the seatmover does not add tactile). It is tecommended even if the manual as far as i remember for maximum feel you should put single system on the front.
As for warranty - NLR replied a little slow (on 6th work day) but since then it is going fast. The M+ is already in the service center in Poland being fixed (courier at my expense). It is supposed to be fast fix and then it will be sent back. I presume it was production defect as something just unscrewed inside.
This being said I will be selling the platform as i want something with more pitch - even two systems together have about 4deg pitch (35mm travel). If i manage to sell the platform it would be much cheaper to switch to 4 actuator setup than buying second one (which was the initial plan).

CaptainBigleux · Feb 14, 2023

I only have 2 Dayton BST2 on my seat, but already planty enough for me so far.
I have a spare small USB amplifier, so I might put 2 more if necessary.
So your advice is to install it at the front for better brake feeling?

Dependind when you sell it (my bank account in red for now lol), how much, and how much to send to my place... I might consider it

StuyoDGr8 · Feb 14, 2023

Yes, I have not tried it in the back but really liked in the front. Biggest gain in immersion is in the front as the rig is lighter and also it has haptics for engine, suspension and so on. The front end really started to feel like real car even with the shakers turned off. I would definitely prefer it in the front but yet again - i have the V3 seatmover and never tested without it. M+ is powerful enough to move my G9 with integrated mount and the whole rig as well, the sway bar design works well enough.

PM sent with details for the sale.

StuyoDGr8 · Feb 24, 2023

Platform is repaired under warranty and travelling back to me.
Will update when I receive it what was the outcome.
Will be selling it right away - will not bother for the time being putting it back on Rig.

karloy · Feb 25, 2023

I added Mega+ to my v3 seatmover as well, the combination still feels very natural after almost a year of use. Matching the chassis movements with the mega+, and an indicator of g-force with the seat mover - needs to be carefully tuned (accurate is better, not overemphasize the movement), and motion compensation (OXRMC) so you don't move around in the cockpit with the motion. At this point, I am starting to feel uncomfortable in VR when I turn off the motion system

.

Also kept my transducers, one for each "wheel", and one under the seat. I never tried a dbox, but based on reviews this seem compliment the Mega+ to have more defined vibration/road texture.

The Mega+ was maintenance free for me so far, they seem very robustly built. EMI might be issue, when I went from the HP Reverb G2 the Varjo Aero I started to see issues - there are EMI suppressing things you can do, e.g. EMI suppressing power strips, and EMI suppression cores for the cables, which addressed it for me.

The Seatmover required so far more maintenance, specially re-surfacing squeaking that require e-brake replacement or clean-up over time.

Before the Mega+, I was considering the Qubic System QS 220 PL, but the total cost with from US vendors was pretty high, and it can't be combined with the Seatmover.

RCHeliguy · Feb 25, 2023

karloy said:
I added Mega+ to my v3 seatmover as well, the combination still feels very natural after almost a year of use. Matching the chassis movements with the mega+, and an indicator of g-force with the seat mover - needs to be carefully tuned (accurate is better, not overemphasize the movement), and motion compensation (OXRMC) so you don't move around in the cockpit with the motion. At this point, I am starting to feel uncomfortable in VR when I turn off the motion system .

Also kept my transducers, one for each "wheel", and one under the seat. I never tried a dbox, but based on reviews this seem compliment the Mega+ to have more defined vibration/road texture.

The Mega+ was maintenance free for me so far, they seem very robustly built. EMI might be issue, when I went from the HP Reverb G2 the Varjo Aero I started to see issues - there are EMI suppressing things you can do, e.g. EMI suppressing power strips, and EMI suppression cores for the cables, which addressed it for me.

The Seatmover required so far more maintenance, specially re-surfacing squeaking that require e-brake replacement or clean-up over time.

Before the Mega+, I was considering the Qubic System QS 220 PL, but the total cost with from US vendors was pretty high, and it can't be combined with the Seatmover.

I've got a D-Box and I still like my transducers and exciters for tactile.
I use some haptic effects where they work well, so some work has been taken away from the transducers, but there are things that they just do better than the current haptics available.