Next Level Racing Motion Plus platform

StuyoDGr8 · May 10, 2022

vannib said:
I have a traction plus and a V3.

I'm VERY tempted on selling my V3 and putting one motion plus on the front, reasoning being:

1) The V3 simply does not allow to properly use serious braking force (major reason).
2) The V3 adds lots of immersion and fun, but obviously it only moves the seat, and as i've reduced a lot its effects/range of motion, i'm really wondering whether a proper setup moving the whole rig would be better.
3) What keeps me wondering is:
- How does the motion plus perform vs. "standard" actuators like DBOX and the likes?
- Not clear whether i'd be able to place a second motion plus on the back down the line. NLR answered me that it's not recommended to place 2 on the traction plus, as that would surpass the weight limit, which is a bit of an absurdity as the V3 weighs more than the Motion plus.

Hmm, never thought this was an issue, was under impression you can assemble two motion plus + v3 + traction plus.
Personally for me V3 + motion plus in the front compliment very well. having 4 big and 4 small bass shakers mounted on the seat now it feels pretty consistent, back and front feels exactly the same. Without the shakers backend was somewhat missing.
The V3 compliments greatly the Motion Plus - it extends the movement in the back and also adds pitch and surge effects, which is somewhat very missing in single install. Following NLR's guidelines I mounted it in front and think this is the correct decision. I tried shutting down my V3 - effects I use are quite toned down - without it I feel I am missing quite a lot. Really like the combination and intend to stuck with it.

The comparison with DBOX system also is very interesting for me. The small DBOX has 1.5" travel, which is not much at all. I measured on the motion plus you have 3.5 cm, which is comparable. The size and track width of the unit makes it very nimble. The roll you can get is +/- 8 degrees, if I am not mistaken. In reality Roll is more than enough, also acceleration is ridiculous. It moves very fast even with the integrated monitor. One of the biggest selling points of a DBOX is the tactile feel. Well, I have to say that I never tested it, but NLR Motion Plus is very good at delivering engine vibrations and real suspension feel added to the roll effects - this almost rendered my two Aura shakers in CM. Now the auras compliment it quite well, but the effect that is most noticeable is the jump landing which feels great the way I set it up at the end. This is the reason I said backend is boring - you have the seat movement, but no tactile effects without second platform.

I am still wondering on the feasibility of adding second motion plus in the back or just moving the front unit a little backwards to obtain higher pitch angle. Either way most probably I will rebuild my rig soon to accommodate 48cm spacing so I can mount the V3 and Motion Plus directly inside the rails lowering it further 4cm.

Another big question for me is the actual mounting between Motion and Traction Plus. The site I bought my platform are developing now their custom solution, looking forward to it. Main question for me is how it will behave as the Traction Plus has exactly 116cm spacing front/rear, my Motion plus is setup at 106cm and I am greatly lacking on the pitch angle, would prefer much narrower wheelbase. Another thing to test is how the feel in pedal plate will be affected when I move the platform backwards.

Metla · May 10, 2022

Righto, all installed, and bouncing the crap out of me.

StuyoDGr8 · May 10, 2022

Metla said:
Righto, all installed, and bouncing the crap out of me.

Congrats! Hope you enjoy it as I do!

A question - having mounted the platform somewhat farther under the pedal plate do you still feel the subtle vibrations properly (engine rumble and small bumps)? I would like to move backwards mine as well, hope the detail will not be lost.

Metla · May 10, 2022

I believe I'm getting a lot of detail, though I don't have anyway (without moving the unit) to determine if it would feel different mounted further back. I did originally mount it so I could reach down from my seating position and switch it off but that then conflicted with the screen mount, so forward and under it went.

At some stage I'll try it directly under the seat and see how that goes.

Righto, My impressions, This thing is damn expensive, I understand they wont sell many of them so all the R&D and profit from each unit needs to be represented in the price, However, If I'm paying for a premium it should have come 100% assembled. Also, my bolt bags weren't labelled(I noticed yours were in the video) , and there wasn't a power cord that fits Australian sockets, and Im lead to believe Next Level are an Australian company . And, one of the rubber feet on the unit fell off, which is a concern as I'm on a tiled floor which traditionally react badly to point loading. The glue I applied also failed to hold it in place.

First game I tried it in was AMS2, Not good, was deeply regretting my purchase at this point, Just constant noise. Was better in the open wheelers but still not enjoyable or usable experience.

And then into ACC....sweet mother of god, so good. Don't quite know how to explain it. It ruined my laptimes but the experience was fantastic. I particularly loved the movement at high speed, But all of it, very very good.

I re-watched the video from 604 where he created a AMS2 tune and he turned down the bumps until they were nearly turned off completely so I will try that.

Also need to have a go in VR and a rally game or two.

Metla · May 11, 2022

One of my sons having a short run

StuyoDGr8 · May 11, 2022

Metla said:
One of my sons having a short run

Nice to see you keyboard is hanging in there. I am still to decide if to mount my keyboard tray back or make new construction or keep it someplace totally separate from the rig.

As far as profiles go - same experience as you. IT is also the same for the V3. The initial profiles are too powerful, when toned down some work properly, some do not - it really depends on the game's implementation of telemetry.

The Dirt Rally 2.0 worked pretty good for me toned down to overall 70% force. At some point I put a little down also the bump sensitivity, as Rally Cross on Gravel was too much shaking and had issues holding the wheel.

WRC 10 Profile worked pretty good at 70%, I think I also lowered the overall roll, because at sudden change of direction the Motion Plus was literally jumping (I see it in your video as well).

Assetto Corsa required a lot of toning down, overall at 70% and some effects at 50% - especially when drifting on default profile we had trouble staying in the cockpit and even holding on to the wheel.

So yes, for sure you will need to adjust the default profiles, but when you cut off the too powerful effects it becomes quite nice - very responsive, also you start feeling all the subtle effects without overpowering the rest (at some point I was feeling only the bumps in the gravel rally stages, and on tarmac I definitely had much better engine vibration + good suspension effects - all this sorted now ).

And yes, I am actually slower at the moment as I am paying a lot of attention to how the whole system works now, especially after adding the HUE lights (watching my arms and ceiling checking if I have proper feedback). I managed to get some good races anyway and actually managed to focus properly, have to say experience is simply on another level now.

Biggest question for me is do I need second platform, when single installation works so well, yet it remains to be seen.

I will test in VR when some spare time is left, but having the monitor now so close to wheel moving with the rig it feels so well that I totally forgot everything else. Either way for me games look much prettier on monitor so I rarely use the VR headset these days.

Metla · May 11, 2022

I moved that keyboard as soon as I stopped filming, It actually fell off last night and took some damage. Its a wireless mechanical keyboard and it cost a couple of hundred bucks and now its pretty much junk, so that wasn't the greatest result.

StuyoDGr8 · May 11, 2022

Metla said:
Its a wireless mechanical keyboard and it cost a couple of hundred bucks and now its pretty much junk, so that wasn't the greatest result.

Thanks, exactly like mine - will figure out some mounting solution outside of rig then. Either way I really hate additional rattling, so am trying to mount everything as sturdy as possible.

vannib · May 12, 2022

StuyoDGr8 said:
Hmm, never thought this was an issue, was under impression you can assemble two motion plus + v3 + traction plus.
Personally for me V3 + motion plus in the front compliment very well. having 4 big and 4 small bass shakers mounted on the seat now it feels pretty consistent, back and front feels exactly the same. Without the shakers backend was somewhat missing.
The V3 compliments greatly the Motion Plus - it extends the movement in the back and also adds pitch and surge effects, which is somewhat very missing in single install. Following NLR's guidelines I mounted it in front and think this is the correct decision. I tried shutting down my V3 - effects I use are quite toned down - without it I feel I am missing quite a lot. Really like the combination and intend to stuck with it.

The comparison with DBOX system also is very interesting for me. The small DBOX has 1.5" travel, which is not much at all. I measured on the motion plus you have 3.5 cm, which is comparable. The size and track width of the unit makes it very nimble. The roll you can get is +/- 8 degrees, if I am not mistaken. In reality Roll is more than enough, also acceleration is ridiculous. It moves very fast even with the integrated monitor. One of the biggest selling points of a DBOX is the tactile feel. Well, I have to say that I never tested it, but NLR Motion Plus is very good at delivering engine vibrations and real suspension feel added to the roll effects - this almost rendered my two Aura shakers in CM. Now the auras compliment it quite well, but the effect that is most noticeable is the jump landing which feels great the way I set it up at the end. This is the reason I said backend is boring - you have the seat movement, but no tactile effects without second platform.

I am still wondering on the feasibility of adding second motion plus in the back or just moving the front unit a little backwards to obtain higher pitch angle. Either way most probably I will rebuild my rig soon to accommodate 48cm spacing so I can mount the V3 and Motion Plus directly inside the rails lowering it further 4cm.

Another big question for me is the actual mounting between Motion and Traction Plus. The site I bought my platform are developing now their custom solution, looking forward to it. Main question for me is how it will behave as the Traction Plus has exactly 116cm spacing front/rear, my Motion plus is setup at 106cm and I am greatly lacking on the pitch angle, would prefer much narrower wheelbase. Another thing to test is how the feel in pedal plate will be affected when I move the platform backwards.

Hi,
thanks for the impressions.

A few clarifications.

As you said, many say that where DBOXes are really different vs. other insanely cheaper set-ups is on the haptics, which are simply missing on other actuators. NLR does not clearly taks about this, which naturally makes me think that there is no haptic. If i understand correctly, you are saying that the motion plus actually has haptics built in, meaning that you can feel stuff like, while parked:
- Engine being turned on and vibrating? Engine revving up? Can you actually feel it like you would with a bass shaker?

The motion plus is incredibly more expensive, stroke-wise (which is comparable to Dbox), to other setups like PT Actuators, so i'd really like to understand this.

Thanks

StuyoDGr8 · May 12, 2022

vannib said:
- Engine being turned on and vibrating? Engine revving up? Can you actually feel it like you would with a bass shaker?

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. Engine vibrations are very real when car is parked, also rallying on gravel and uneven surfaces feels exactly like in real car. Also I can clearly discern left/right bumps.
The first time I played my front bass shakers were not yet present - the Motion Plus delivers much better feel actually than the two Auras. Now how I built the pedal plate I feel much better the shakers, but mainly used them as extension to the platform - for example for jump landing it feels great, you have the suspension working and then you have additional effect coming after the jump itself shaking the pedal plate.

As far as I can see how these vibrations feel I think you can easily skip the bass shakers in front, but not sure how it will behave in the back especially paired with the V3 on top. My back shakers are mounted directly on the side of my seat so they produce pretty good feel for suspension effects, have two more below and on the back of seat, I doubt a platform in the back will be able to produce the same feel as in front.

Metla · May 25, 2022

Another vid, in this case I have the camera attached to the seat so its moving along with the rig. Gives a bit more semblance of what its like to drive. This also meant my head gets in the picture...

Haptic wise, prior to this I did have the rev-limiter coming in really hard which was great fun on the flat out sections, even though I dialed it right down again you can hear the motion rig react.

TonyTazer · Aug 2, 2022

Hi guys, joining this perfect thread and straight into my question. I'm close to my first step into motion and stuck in-between the "old" NLR motion platform V3 and the new NLR Motion Plus. Running both together looks amazing, but I can't afford both at once and have to start with one, so...

If you'd have to run on just one, which one would you pick?

I'm still leaning more towards the seat mover first, especially because of the stronger pitch and overall dynamics, but I also love the concept of a clean, small rig mover, especially for (more?) precise racing. Flying with the hotas mounted to the seat should work well anyways....

One more important aspect for my case: which of both do you consider as louder / more noisy?

I'm currently running on a NLR GTTrack rig with Fanatec Clubsport hardware, an X56 hotas, a buttkicker gamer 2, SRS Hurricane wind set and a Varjo Aero (simming in VR only). 60% iRacing, 30% MSFS, just some DCS and IL-2 in-between.

Many thanks in advance for sharing your experience and thoughts!

tyler ling · Aug 2, 2022

Hi Tony,

I race with a GTtrack too and since 2020 with the V3. In June I bought the motion plus. The two systems work very well together, but I would prefer the motion plus. The V3 simulates acceleration and deceleration much better than the motion plus, but for me that is the only argument for the V3.
What bothers me the most about the Seatmover V3 is the loose feeling on the sides. With the motion plus you have a really tight seat, just like it is in real life in the car. The V3 makes for sure a lot of fun, but doesn't simulate as well as a motion platform. I would like to get a second Motion plus as soon as possible and will then probably sell the V3, but I will definitely miss the effect of the brakes and acceleration.
Best regards
Guido

TonyTazer · Aug 2, 2022

Many thanks Guido for your feedback - very helpful! I can imagine the V3 feeling more loose sideways given its layout/design... It's still a tricky decision for me, as I also enjoy flying a lot (racing still being number one) and I think for flying the higher V3 pitch angles come really nice...
Would you mind sharing your view about noise levels of both systems compared? Unfortunately I have to consider that aspect as well in my home environment..

Many thanks,
Thomas

RCHeliguy · Aug 3, 2022

I've had an NLRv3 and also used it for flight. For a helicopter collective it does work pretty well and even for flight. I was surprised at how convincing it was in a barrel roll.

There is one issue though that breaks immersion in flight. When driving I never really noticed the motion relative to the pedals since I only push forward. However with flight pedals that rotate being pitched from side to side actually impacts the flight pedals and feels very noticeable.

I moving to a chassis mover and will be taking my NLRv3 off my rig.

tyler ling · Aug 3, 2022

Tony, I don't think you have to worry about the noise, both systems are relatively quiet. But here, too, it is always an individual impression. I always drive with headphones and VR, I don't even notice the noises and my simracingstudio wind simulator is so loud that everything else can hardly be heard. If you're racing without headphones, you'll hear a little noise from both the V3 and the motion plus, but it's not loud.
One thing that I would mentions, with the motion plus I have noise through the rig. The movements of the motion make all screw connections and other stuff that are not 100% tight lively - they make noise. My GTtrack is not the best rig for that, its noisy and I recommend the GTElite or some other kind of alurig. With the V3 you don't have this noisy rig problem

RCHeliguy · Aug 3, 2022

I'm getting ready to install a D-Box Gen5 on my SimLab P1. I've been told the same thing about getting everything well secured and tight to make a rigid chassis to shake around. I'm not expecting any issues with shaking, but we will see.

I've boxed in the front of the frame in preparation.

TonyTazer · Aug 4, 2022

tyler ling said:
Tony, I don't think you have to worry about the noise, both systems are relatively quiet. But here, too, it is always an individual impression. I always drive with headphones and VR, I don't even notice the noises and my simracingstudio wind simulator is so loud that everything else can hardly be heard. If you're racing without headphones, you'll hear a little noise from both the V3 and the motion plus, but it's not loud.
One thing that I would mentions, with the motion plus I have noise through the rig. The movements of the motion make all screw connections and other stuff that are not 100% tight lively - they make noise. My GTtrack is not the best rig for that, its noisy and I recommend the GTElite or some other kind of alurig. With the V3 you don't have this noisy rig problem

Thanks for sharing, very helpful. Great to hear both aren't noisy. I drive with headphones and VR too, this concern was more around my family and neighbours, especially late-night...
I get the point on the GTTrack rig itself becoming noisy when moved. Combining all the feedback I got so far I'm leaning very much into the V3 as my first step. I know it's not perfect, but probably the best compromise for me to start with. Thanks!!

RCHeliguy · Aug 4, 2022

FWIW I've been happy with my NLRv3. The software is super easy to configure, it supports every sim title I've wanted, and it sips power.

gmkump · Nov 6, 2022

I had an NLRv3 with Traction Plus for two years, Traction Plus having to be sent from overseas, couldn't get in USA yet. Enjoyed it, but NLRv3 started acting up, losing connection on bumps, etc. Finally opted to go the NLR Motion Plus route to replace V3, but I needed two, one for front, one for rear.

Found out I couldn't get the bracket to mount the Motion Plus units to the Traction Plus, again, not sold in USA yet. Here we go again. So I bought the bracket and having a really good time with the two Motion Plus vs Seat Mover V3.

World of difference, for me, to have entire cockpit move to bumps, hitting corners, raising for wheel change, uneven road, etc. Especially in VR. I found V3 had a bad impact on my driving, because with Motion Plus, you don't get the body moving about with hands and feet not moving and that does make a difference. Keeping a fixed distance to feet and hands to body improved my driving anyway.

Feels much more realistic now. The only thing V3 has that is more noticeable is G force for breaking and acceleration, but it is also disrupting, a little strange, your seat should be attached to your car better. Everything else feels so much better with Motion Plus (two of them anyway).

Added a couple of shots with the also upgraded GTF Elite cockpit. Note how high the cockpit is how the bracket is needed for mounting the two Motion Plus to Traction Plus.