Next Level Racing Motion Plus platform

tyler ling · Nov 11, 2022

Yeah, thats interesting. It seems to be e secret if the traction plus can handle two motion plus, now I have an an answer

When I decided to buy a motion system, it could only be the motion plus, because sometime i will have this traction plus too.
Currently I have the motion plus in the front and the V3 in the rear. And yes, the motion plus is much more immersive than the V3, especially in VR. But when I turn off the V3 I really miss the breaking and acceleration effect. In VR with motion compensation, the V3 G force is total immersive and makes much fun.
For me the next step is a second motion plus and after that I am looking for the traction plus. Maybe bitcoin will eventually come out of its vale of tears, then I can afford it.

How is the performance from the traction plus in VR, is the effect realistic and do you think it worth the money?

RCHeliguy · Nov 11, 2022

tyler ling said:
But when I turn off the V3 I really miss the breaking and acceleration effect. In VR with motion compensation, the V3 G force is total immersive and makes much fun.

Get a G-Belt! Having the seatbelt tighten when you hit the brakes and pull harder on the outside shoulder as you go around corners adds a LOT!!!!

I never liked the NLRv3 pitching me forward to simulate braking.

The G-Belt only requires two holes in your seat and for $1K is one of the best upgrades that you can make to your rig.

I don't know many people who stuck with the Traction Plus system. For some reason the people I knew who got one moved on to something else.

vannib · Nov 11, 2022

tyler ling said:
Yeah, thats interesting. It seems to be e secret if the traction plus can handle two motion plus, now I have an an answer
When I decided to buy a motion system, it could only be the motion plus, because sometime i will have this traction plus too.
Currently I have the motion plus in the front and the V3 in the rear. And yes, the motion plus is much more immersive than the V3, especially in VR. But when I turn off the V3 I really miss the breaking and acceleration effect. In VR with motion compensation, the V3 G force is total immersive and makes much fun.
For me the next step is a second motion plus and after that I am looking for the traction plus. Maybe bitcoin will eventually come out of its vale of tears, then I can afford it.

How is the performance from the traction plus in VR, is the effect realistic and do you think it worth the money?

I used to have a traction plus and V3, playing only in Vr.

I’ve ditched both and moved to a set of actuators from Qubic, they are the same guys that make the stuff for next level racing.

To me there is no comparison, and the traction plus is absolutely not worth the money, especially considering that with a bit more you could buy those actuators.

I actually now would not put it on the rig even if I could and it was free, as I now understand what “zero lag” and “speed” mean when talking motion, etc.

Don’t ask me why or how, but I now have a more clear and immediate perception when I’m losing traction.

tyler ling · Nov 11, 2022

ok that sounds not so good and the price for the traction plus is really high. I will have definitely a second motion plus, that gives me 3 DOF. Next year I would like to upgrade my PC too, so there goes enough money to my simracing

Yes, and maybe, when I have the second motion plus, I am selling my V3 and put on a G-Belt. I like this pitching forward and backward but there is one thing that I really don't like about my V3 - the seat is not tight because of the V3. This is not realistic, maybe with an 40 years old Ford you have this loose seat, but not in a nascar

RCHeliguy · Nov 11, 2022

What vannib mentioned about having no latency is something I've also noticed with my D-Box system.

In Rally while the NLRv3 immersion is good, my times have dramatically improved since I got the D-Box system. I feel like I can control the car better because I'm able to respond sooner to what I feel is going on. I'm finding that I do not have to counter correct nearly as much.

vannib · Nov 11, 2022

The V3 as I evolved to a serious 8020 rig became a liability…you can’t actually stomp the brake pedal as you will get lots of flex and any force above 45kg might actually overheat it and make it enter safe mode.

RCHeliguy · Nov 11, 2022

vannib said:
The V3 as I evolved to a serious 8020 rig became a liability…you can’t actually stomp the brake pedal as you will get lots of flex and any force above 45kg might actually overheat it and make it enter safe mode.

I never had an issue with my pedals at 55kg. It seemed most people didn't run into problems until about 70kg. However remember that you can still push a pedal past it's max loadcell value, so it's entirely possible to push it too hard even when your max brakes are much less.

revdox · Dec 8, 2022

Metla said:
Righto, all installed, and bouncing the crap out of me.

hey mate how did you mount the rear pivot bar to the trackracer exactly the outer holes do not fit it seems, because the rig is a little bit too narrow... can u post a picture from your solution? thx mate

Metla · Dec 9, 2022

I'll take a pic when I get home, but I'm pretty sure I bolted it to the cross rail at the rear. It might even be a bit off-center as one end is in the side rail, the other end is bolted to the cross rail if I remember rightly.

revdox · Dec 9, 2022

Metla said:
I'll take a pic when I get home, but I'm pretty sure I bolted it to the cross rail at the rear. It might even be a bit off-center as one end is in the side rail, the other end is bolted to the cross rail if I remember rightly.

big thx mate... i think offcenter could work... dont know if this would impact the performance somehow....

how satisfied are you with your purchase?

i did some research in technical specifications of some motion systems and the specs of the nlr motion plus are not very impressive compared to other motion systems =(

NLR Motion Plus
Max Velocity: 70mm/s
Max Acceleration: 0.11g

DBox Gen 5
Max Velocity: 100mm/s
Max Acceleration: 1.0g

Qubic QS-220-PL
Max Velocity: 800mm/s
Max Acceleration: 0.8g

I dont know if the NLR Motion Plus is fast enough to deliver fast responsive and lagfree movements to not distract or feel disconnected from the driving experience. My NLR V3 somethimes lags behind in motion when racing for example with high downforce cars. Maybe this is true for the NLR Motion Plus too? What is your take on this?

Anyone knows why we cant youse the NLR V3 with the Qubic Systems together (they offer a 2dof version too).

RCHeliguy · Dec 9, 2022

Max velocity is completely different from latency and those velocity numbers are completely useless for comparisons.

What you care about is how fast they can accellerate under load.

Think about it this way. If you have a car with 1000Hp and 100ft/lbs of torque. It will have an amazing top speed, but will take a long time to get there.

Actuator motors have a torque rating and gear ratio. So the same motor could be mounted in an actuator with a different thread that allows the motor to spin twice as much for the same motion. Depending on friction that would double the torque and cut the max speed in half.

So the question is always how much accelleration is it capable of under load.

My rig is about 330lbs and front heavy and I'm 190lbs. With me in the rig it is much closer to a 50:50 weight ratio. D-Box Gen5 is rated for 250lbs per actuator. My 520lb load is spread pretty evenly. Ideally that would be 130lbs per actuator.

I can definitely sense how connected I feel in the D-Box and the latency is not perceptable.

The NLRv3 is capable of a lot more angle, so for flight it can create a more immersive feeling. It also does well on rollercoaster simulators. In those cases the maximum angle makes a much larger difference than max speed or accelleration.

revdox · Dec 9, 2022

RCHeliguy said:
Max velocity is completely different from latency and those velocity numbers are completely useless for comparisons.

What you care about is how fast they can accellerate under load.

Think about it this way. If you have a car with 1000Hp and 100ft/lbs of torque. It will have an amazing top speed, but will take a long time to get there.

Actuator motors have a torque rating and gear ratio. So the same motor could be mounted in an actuator with a different thread that allows the motor to spin twice as much for the same motion. Depending on friction that would double the torque and cut the max speed in half.

So the question is always how much accelleration is it capable of under load.

My rig is about 330lbs and front heavy and I'm 190lbs. With me in the rig it is much closer to a 50:50 weight ratio. D-Box Gen5 is rated for 250lbs per actuator. My 520lb load is spread pretty evenly. Ideally that would be 130lbs per actuator.

I can definitely sense how connected I feel in the D-Box and the latency is not perceptable.

The NLRv3 is capable of a lot more angle, so for flight it can create a more immersive feeling. It also does well on rollercoaster simulators. In those cases the maximum angle makes a much larger difference than max speed or accelleration.

yeah therefore i wrote the acceleration value in G-Forces too wich on paper the dbox is about 10 times faster (1.0g vs 0.11g) than the nrl plus

RCHeliguy · Dec 9, 2022

I consider the NLRv3 great for immersion, and in my experience with visitors, it will help with VR nausea quite a bit, but I don't think it will help your lap times. If anything I believe it tends to make you a little slower.

I think the D-Box is neutral to positive. I feel like I'm getting actionable information.

revdox · Dec 9, 2022

RCHeliguy said:
I consider the NLRv3 great for immersion, and in my experience with visitors, it will help with VR nausea quite a bit, but I don't think it will help your lap times. If anything I believe it tends to make you a little slower.

I think the D-Box is neutral to positive. I feel like I'm getting actionable information.

if u would have to sell one thing wich would you keep in your rig? nlr v3 or dbox?

RCHeliguy · Dec 9, 2022

revdox said:
if u would have to sell one thing wich would you keep in your rig? nlr v3 or dbox?

I've already made that decision.

My NLRv3 is sitting on the floor. I just haven't sold it yet. FYI, I would sell it for $2,000 + shipping in the US and I would construct a wooden crate to ship it.

I like having a solid seat mount that doesn't move relative to the pedal deck.
I like having a seat slider and not worrying about changing the center of gravity over the universal joint in the NLRv3.
I like not worrying about using a higher brake pressure and not worrying about the NLRv3 shutting down mid race. ( keep in mind that you can always panic brake and push much harder than your 100% brake value ) The NLRv3 will shutdown if it is overpowered.

Metla · Dec 14, 2022

revdox said:
big thx mate... i think offcenter could work... dont know if this would impact the performance somehow....

how satisfied are you with your purchase?

Apologies, went to a work function on Friday, drank far too much and completely forgot about this discussion.

Will try and get a photo tonight.

As to how satisfied am I with my purchase?

Well, 100 percent satisfied. Absolutely love it, combined with VR and a nice set of headphones it gives me an experience I would find hard to explain.

However, I have no idea how it compares to other items on the market, or if their is significant lag or otherwise. I'm not the most sensitive user and quite often see discussions about issues that I am oblivious to. (In regards to general sim racing like distorted visuals etc).

If it lags, I likely wouldn't notice. To busy enjoying the experience.

Also,

I occasionally turn it off if I'm trying for personal best lap time, Having the platform move around isn't always the best option for precision.

It behaves in different ways depending on the title, Just like each game has different ffb.

AMS2-Bumpy all the time, Have reduced it through settings but its still present. Can sometimes get annoying

ACC-Syncs perfectly with the FFB, I get immersed so quickly I can't tell where the effects are coming from.

AC- Feels a bit mechanical and flat in spots.Feels under developed compared to AMS2 and ACC

Beamng-Watch out. Nothing happens and then it tries to kill you, Just like the FFB does.

Dirt 2-Hit and miss, Mostly good, Feels great when the big suspension movements come through.

F1 games- Couldn't get it to function. The software supported it. Didn't try for too long as the gameplay experience was garbo.

Wreckfest-Would be awesome if Wreckfest had motion support.....

Metla · Dec 14, 2022

Pics as discussed, Though I don't know if they show much. Ignore the mass of cables...

Looks like a bolt may have fallen out (or I never put it in)

StuyoDGr8 · Dec 15, 2022

Metla said:
Pics as discussed, Though I don't know if they show much. Ignore the mass of cables...

Looks like a bolt may have fallen out (or I never put it in)

View attachment 623279 View attachment 623280 View attachment 623281

Let me add some more info. The mounting brackets on top are rotatable and are not centered - you can set different spacing options.

My original rig was based on 600mm width to accommodate most current wheelbase plates at the time (most of the popular brands used this spacing) . This translated to having 520mm wide lateral back profile. NRL is based on 560mm chassis (+80mm for the vertical supports), which is 480mm lateral profiles/spacing between side rails.

Based on the pictures above I see the motion plus is direct drop-in in the Trakracer chassis. I measured the brackets and as far as I remember they were designed to provide about 20mm additional adjustment in width - presumably this is for the back support as well. As far as I see current TR chassis are 500mm bars/580mm total chassis which gives you +10mm on the side.

When I switched to NRL spacing I do not remember on which setting the sway bar is though - most probably it is with the brackets rotated so it is wider. This as I remember was needed so I can bolt the outer hole on the side beams. You can measure for TR how it will fit if set to narrow - maybe it will fit right below the 500mm profile. I am away from home now but next week can take measures and make more pictures.

And having it more than half year have to say I am still very satisfied with it. They provide very fast profiles for new games, also the most important sell point for me was the direct interoperability with the V3. Please keep in mined you will definitely want second one when you test it, good thing is you can buy them separately. Definitely something I really want to do

As for the DR 2.0 support - latest versions I noticed it is toned down. they are updating the profiles constantly it seems. Also support from car to car and track to track is quite different, slower cars feel very boring. Group B cars are tossing me wildly when driven fast. Also Dirt parts of RX tracks you can really feel the bumps.

What I noticed is when i integrated my monitor I lost some of the tactile feel because of the added weight. Before the monitor definitely I had great engine effect in front coming from the Motion Plus. Yet again even with the added load it is still very snappy, fast and powerful. For a compact unit it feels very good.

Based on whatever my preferences are the other option for me is D-Box system. The SFX based ones I do not like as they are noisy, slower and too much travel. I presume it is amazing, but I simply do not have the space. Yet again the D-Box 1.5" costs more than 2x NRL thus I am sticking with it. Also based on my measurements the motion plus has same travel but less footprint - this translates to more Roll travel

Saw other similar systems like D-Box which look good on reviews standing but never got into detail.

Another outcome from the addition of Motion Plus infront was the "empty" feel on the back. In front you have suspension + tactile effects, so even with the V3 backend was boring. Good thing is I have shakers in chassis mode - the back ones filled in the suspension effects perfectly so the whole experience was consistent. This is something to look into if you have similar feeling - it is quite cheap addition if you base it on Dayton shakers and USB amps.

Here is short video for illustration how everything came together at the end:

revdox · Dec 19, 2022

StuyoDGr8 said:
Let me add some more info. The mounting brackets on top are rotatable and are not centered - you can set different spacing options.

My original rig was based on 600mm width to accommodate most current wheelbase plates at the time (most of the popular brands used this spacing) . This translated to having 520mm wide lateral back profile. NRL is based on 560mm chassis (+80mm for the vertical supports), which is 480mm lateral profiles/spacing between side rails.

Based on the pictures above I see the motion plus is direct drop-in in the Trakracer chassis. I measured the brackets and as far as I remember they were designed to provide about 20mm additional adjustment in width - presumably this is for the back support as well. As far as I see current TR chassis are 500mm bars/580mm total chassis which gives you +10mm on the side.

When I switched to NRL spacing I do not remember on which setting the sway bar is though - most probably it is with the brackets rotated so it is wider. This as I remember was needed so I can bolt the outer hole on the side beams. You can measure for TR how it will fit if set to narrow - maybe it will fit right below the 500mm profile. I am away from home now but next week can take measures and make more pictures.

And having it more than half year have to say I am still very satisfied with it. They provide very fast profiles for new games, also the most important sell point for me was the direct interoperability with the V3. Please keep in mined you will definitely want second one when you test it, good thing is you can buy them separately. Definitely something I really want to do

As for the DR 2.0 support - latest versions I noticed it is toned down. they are updating the profiles constantly it seems. Also support from car to car and track to track is quite different, slower cars feel very boring. Group B cars are tossing me wildly when driven fast. Also Dirt parts of RX tracks you can really feel the bumps.

What I noticed is when i integrated my monitor I lost some of the tactile feel because of the added weight. Before the monitor definitely I had great engine effect in front coming from the Motion Plus. Yet again even with the added load it is still very snappy, fast and powerful. For a compact unit it feels very good.

Based on whatever my preferences are the other option for me is D-Box system. The SFX based ones I do not like as they are noisy, slower and too much travel. I presume it is amazing, but I simply do not have the space. Yet again the D-Box 1.5" costs more than 2x NRL thus I am sticking with it. Also based on my measurements the motion plus has same travel but less footprint - this translates to more Roll travel

Saw other similar systems like D-Box which look good on reviews standing but never got into detail.

Another outcome from the addition of Motion Plus infront was the "empty" feel on the back. In front you have suspension + tactile effects, so even with the V3 backend was boring. Good thing is I have shakers in chassis mode - the back ones filled in the suspension effects perfectly so the whole experience was consistent. This is something to look into if you have similar feeling - it is quite cheap addition if you base it on Dayton shakers and USB amps.

Here is short video for illustration how everything came together at the end:

you got a sfx100 system testet before and it was slower? how can this be? specwise the sfx100 (at least with the 80st m2040 motors) should be much faster than the nlr plus (even faster than the dbox systems)

StuyoDGr8 · Dec 25, 2022

revdox said:
you got a sfx100 system testet before and it was slower? how can this be? specwise the sfx100 (at least with the 80st m2040 motors) should be much faster than the nlr plus (even faster than the dbox systems)

No, regrettably I do not have access to test other motion platforms (in my country this is not popular hobby). The only platform I can test is DOF H3 (we have racing club using them), but this is not a platform I consider using for numerous reasons. All my assumptions were based on reviews from a year ago. Yet there are not so much real reviews out there and information is scarce - only by testing all of it real assumptions can be made.
Above i was referring not to linear speed, was meaning acceleration. Yes, on paper linear the motion plus is slower, but acceleration is ridiculously fast - it has less travel, small footprint, “wheelbase” is very narrow - this translates to very fast and long roll travel. I had to turn it down a lot as in sharp turns it is violently fast. Wonder how these terms translate to a new gen RS Mega+. Currently I am considering adding second M+ in the back or switch altogether to RS - price is the same.
It is tough decision as I see currently SRS software has also haptics. I have very limited space so not sure if I can fit Mega+ or will have to go with the RS Mini. For the NRL M+ I really like the small footprint, overall very good performance, very quiet operation and most notably very little vibrations travelling to floor (because of its construction). All these i would like to keep and am wondering how they translate in RS Mega+ install. As I said - tough decision and real fear of missing out

And another point - both NRL platforms are virtually unsellable second hand locally so I am forever stuck with them.