AC Multiclass Abarth 500/Mazda MX5@Sebring, Wed 28th September 2022

[gearwhine]

Adapting to load cell will be the biggest challenge for me in my new setup.

You will like it. It will feel totally reliable and always feel the same and never degrade. As i said, mine is quite hard and probably authentic in the fact it feels without a servo. I could try altering the gamma curve instead of making it soft. All these things are possible with load cell. Are you getting the V3 with your Fanatec upgrade?

 

[HF2000]

Adapting to load cell will be the biggest challenge for me in my new setup.

At first I was about a second slower when changing from a G27 wheel and pedals and a deskchair to a rig with DD wheel and Heusinkveld pedals.
It was hard not to be disappointed at that moment. But after a week and about 3 races I was on my old pace again plus my consistency went up. The latter is the biggest advantage of DD drive and loadcell pedals.

 

[gearwhine]

At first I was about a second slower when changing from a G27 wheel and pedals and a deskchair to a rig with DD wheel and Heusinkveld pedals.
It was hard not to be disappointed at that moment. But after a week and about 3 races I was on my old pace again plus my consistency went up. The latter is the biggest advantage of DD drive and loadcell pedals.

I,m using a Thrustmaster TX which recently got a software update that doubled its torque and am not in a hurry to update to DD anymore although i am sure i would prefer it. I certainly will not be paying up front for a product with a back order anytime soon although that may of changed i guess.

 

[Dzul]

I,m using a Thrustmaster TX which recently got a software update that doubled its torque

Update from Thrustmaster? I have a TS-PC and for sure can do with some extra torque.

 

[gearwhine]

Update from Thrustmaster? I have a TS-PC and for sure can do with some extra torque.

Hi Raul, i think it works for all models. Just update to latest firmware. It has been out for most of this year i believe

 

[nepal roade]

imho it's not the torque i.e. the strength of the feedback that makes the difference, it is the much greater fidelity. It would be like going from a string and tin can audio quality to some nice hifi speakers, but in terms of the feeling from the wheel. Once I'd got the new wheel properly tuned in, I almost immediately took to my Accuforce DD from my T500 which I had really enjoyed. It was the more subtle level of FFB that makes the biggest difference, sensations that you just don't get on the belt and gear varieties. And I agree with another poster, my consistency improved considerably. Changing from the T500 pedals to the Fanatec v3s was a different matter tho and took maybe about a month before I was completely comfortable with them and my muscle memory re-tuned.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Last week I replaced my old rubbers with the new Heusinkveld elastomerkit rubbers for the brake pedal. It has a progressive effect that feels much more natural. But indeed there's the muscle memory that has to be reset.
On the TVR Tuesday it was no problem because I never raced it before.
With the Abarth yesterday I think it went quite well. But last Sunday with the GT3 I struggled a lot and didn't came near my usual pace.

Now you tell me

(Mine are in the mail)

Horrified Carsten

 

[HF2000]

(Mine are in the mail)

I used my express channel!

 

[RasmusP]

I have a set of clubsport V3 pedals which are great and i also have the brake rubber upgrade kit which i originally set quite hard to stop locking wheels. Maybe now i can soften the feel a little and find some time somewhere

I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding but just to clarify it for everyone:
Making the brake softer or stiffer makes no difference to the brake input.

It only changes the travel you get when applying the same force (reaching the same pressure).

If you set the load cell to tell the fanatec software to be 100% at 50kg pressure and you press with 25kg against the pedal, it will show 50% brake input.
(it's Newton ofc, since it's a force, not weight, but who knows what 245N feel like...)

With a softer pedal, you might be at 5cm travel at 25kg of force.
With a hard pedal you might only be at 2cm travel at 25kg of force.

You could also put a steel stick between pedal and load cell to have 0mm travel.

However we ofc try to make it feel "nice and real" and real cars have moving parts etc so you end up having some brake pedal travel.

I could try altering the gamma curve instead of making it soft.

The gamma curve however would make 0kg still be 0% and 50kg = 100%, but 25kg will only be 35%.
The issue here is that 40kg won't be 80% anymore but maybe 90% instead.

With gamma curves, it's crucial to find out where your "brain to brake input" is off.
Try to press 25%, 50% and 75% 10x each and log your brake input. AC replay, AC+acti+motec, acc + motec (doesn't need an extra program).

If you're hitting something like 40/60/70%, you need to set gamma above 1.0 to make it 25/50/75.

If you're hitting 15/40/80, you need to set gamma to something like 0.7.

If you're hitting all 3 points too high/low, you need to adjust the load cell setting

A softer or stiffer "travel to force" setting can help to trick our brain though and achieve the same. Your leg muscles will have to apply exactly the same force though.

Adapting to load cell will be the biggest challenge for me in my new setup.

I would recommend to set the abs (and if driving a car without abs: the slide) ffb effect way too high in the beginning so you'll always know when you're reaching the maximum.

With fanatec, you can set a vibration kicking in when reaching a certain brake input.
I've set mine to 95%. Helps a lot!
EDIT: I forgot your exact parts.
So the McLaren rim has no vibration motors and the CSL pedals also don't have them.

However I do seem to remember that FanaLab offered some vibration effects via the wheelbase shaft for all kinds of stuff. It didn't work on my CSW 2.5 though...

 

[Dzul]

Hi Raul, i think it works for all models. Just update to latest firmware. It has been out for most of this year i believe

Thanks for the heads-up Steve, will run the update tonight.

 

[Dzul]

I used my express channel!

So, let's say one of us orders a pair of Heusinkvelds, can we pick them up at your place?

 

[HF2000]

So, let's say one of us orders a pair of Heusinkvelds, can we pick them up at your place?

Could be, it depends on when my express channel comes to visit his parents after you payed for the order.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding but just to clarify it for everyone:
Making the brake softer or stiffer makes no difference to the brake input.

It only changes the travel you get when applying the same force (reaching the same pressure).

@RasmusP :

I really like the way you are "nerding out" here and how you share your knowledge!

(and here`s the) BUT:

your explanation above is not completely accurate.

Your right in saying that the resulting force on on the loadcell will always be the same like the force acting on the pedal face, regardless how stiff the transmission element aka brake rubber is.

Thats only true if you take measurements every 5sec or the brake rubber is solid material.

With higher frequency/better resolution you will see that the softer the brake rubber the bigger the hysteresis, i.e. the longer the loadcell needs to "receive" the full force at the pedal face.
The force needed to compress the rubber delays the transmission to to the loadcell.

Actually a little pedal travel can help with first activation of the brake because it gives a soft car like the Mazda time to compress the suspension and so shift grip forward.

On Aero cars a stiff pedal allows fast ramp up of brake force, but makes trail brake much harder.

I wanted high brake forces and medium travel which lead to "ballooning" with the MK1 rubbers.
So I cut the longest rubber in three slices with discs in between.
Enough rubber to give me some travel, single parts short enough to no balloon.

Let´s see how the new rubbers will feel....


MFG Carsten

( I actually looked up hysteresys to get it right)

 

[stigs2cousin]

Rubbers are here, I'll go home and have some tests.

 

[Douglas Aird]

Are you getting the V3 with your Fanatec upgrade?

No, just the load cell brake pedal upgrade to go with the CSL Elite pedals.

 

[HF2000]

Rubbers are here, I'll go home and have some tests.

Please let me know which one you're using.

 

[Douglas Aird]

Rubbers are here, I'll go home and have some tests.

Testing rubbers by burning rubber?

 

[Douglas Aird]

Rubbers are here, I'll go home and have some tests.

Nothing worse than defective rubbers.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Nothing worse than defective rubbers.

Yeah, makes you pay for years

 

[stigs2cousin]

Please let me know which one you're using.

Why??

After all the tricks you pulled you want US to playr fair??


I don't think so