PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Rob]

Most of the sim community are obviously not very smart. The FFB in pCars is DIRECTLY connected to the tire/spindle-arm topology. Much more so than in any other sim. It is NOT a simple matter of "Do it so it feels like Sim X".

It's extremely frustrating seeing so many, quite frankly "stupid" people (meaning people who do not understand the written word and can not think at all for themselves) completely missing the point of the FFB. pCars is by far the most flexible when it comes to the amount of stuff you can tweak for the FFB. Yeah it's a bit complex and complicated but one thing should be easy for people to understand: THE DEFAULT SETTINGS ARE YET TO BE SET. Heck there are even complete wheel presets missing like the TX 458 from Thrustmaster.

Seriously, no other simulation allows you to tweak the FFB output to your wheel at the level pCars does. It gives you Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz outputs, separately, for every single car, within the car setup menu!!! (if you don't know what those mean you might want to look up tire model / tire physics articles on wikipedia). It allows you to set the spindle arm angle for the FFB!! (if you don't know what this is.. go wikipedia again). There has NEVER been as much tech and geeky goodies when it comes to FFB in any sim ever before (and probably never again). What do the developers get as a thanks? A huge bunch of whiney know-nothings. Perls to swine.

You may be asking yourself: "Why does it need to be so complex? <insert Sim X> does it just fine by default!". No. It does not. pCars FFB, when it's setup properly and tuned for the problems that consumer wheels like G25/G27/DFGT/T500/Clubsport v1 (v2 can already be considered "truly high-end(ish)" and thus is the first wheel that should be run completely linear) have it is, in my not so humble opinion, BY FAR (by a million trillion times), the best FFB ever created for any sim. Heck it's THE ONLY sim where I can literally let go of the wheel (a crappy DFGT and my TX 458m works on both!!) and it's self-aligning torque helps you properly correct an oversteer moment, just like you can do in real life. This is simply not possible in any other sim that I own (GSC comes close though.. but real feel just isn't snappy enough, or the tires have some slip angle oddities).

But yeah.. whatever. I've given up trying to get people to understand how the FFB system works and why it would be important to understand that 99% of the wheels currently in the hands of sim-racers/consumers should not run linear FFB like some sims make you believe. It's just completely wrong and utterly idiotic.. unless you want to get as far from reality as you can.

Thank you for this talk about what's really in the game instead of sheer speculation on professional racers' motives (as anyone knows, there is no connection between Rast and pCARS and Fanatec isn't even the best wheel on the market, having owned one and a Thustmaster).

 

[Rob]

Oh you're one of THOSE guys. (or do you even own the game?/have access to the forum?)
Seriously, stop spreading these lies across the internet, all 3 of them are on contract with SMS, they are paid consultants and no SMS dev will ever say otherwise. Rast has been gifted a Fanatec setup, so he can advertise pCARS on, because when he feels like actually training he'll go to the Audi facilities where they have an actual simulator, not a simcade that happens to have both LeMans and the R18. Might as well try GT5, the FFB is better.
I've been part of the project before these guys were bought into it, and the handling hasn't changed for the better, because you know, those 2-3 forum comments a week from them don't actually change anything. It may be because they have no clue about how a sim works and should feel and because the handling and the FFB of the cars will change every other week, or because there is only so much you can do with the Shift 2 engine. This is nothing but a marketing stunt, trust me, all these posts from WMD investors trying to hype the game are really depressing to see, because they know how inferior their product is compared to any sim out there. But truth will come out in March, and while they may get the sales and profit from console sales, they will never get the respect from the sim community.

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Yes actually i do play all these games on default, and they are close to perfect. And yes, there is no proper simulator on console, the closest you've got is GT/Forza, both which are really the definition of a simcade. Light-years from AC, rF or iR.

I did read the pCARS official statements:

"Below is a lap around Oschersleben by Rene, his virtual lap time is remarkably close as the lap time in the real Audi R8 LMS Ultra and the virtual version are just 0,025 seconds apart!

Rast is one of several race car drivers involved in Project CARS, unlike Ben Colins and Nicolas Hamilton, the German sports car driver is not active in an official capacity on WMD though, being a regular member that’s in it for the fun instead."

Thanks for prompting me to do so, so I could confirm your misconception about Rast.

 

[ThatAntisocialKid]

Yes you are all investors with a vested interest and unlikely to allow any discontent towards the game.

I'm honestly not sure how you got that from my post. The closest thing I said to this was that expecting a good default setup at this moment isn't something you should be doing.

And you are very wrong about AC's FFB. It is far more detailed and sublime than Pcars could ever hope for in my subjective opinion that is.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Don't get me wrong, I would love Pcars to match it and I hope it will.

I'm sure with enough tweaking you could get it quite similar to AC if that's what you wanted.

And can I ask what "meh" means? Is it some text talk teenage gamers type thing? As I have never heard of the word before. Sounds childish.

David said it pretty well: ""meh" means take it or leave it/indifferent or lackluster". I chose to use meh as I didn't feel like clogging up this thread—which is meant for discussing pCARS—with why I don't really care for AC's FFB. It has nothing to do with being some sort of internet "leet" (or 1337, for the cool kids) speak.

 

[c172fccc]

Do you like the current level of grip in the grass? Yes or no

Well, I also think that the grass might have too much grip, I don't know how hard it would be to change that. I have to say that the tires were reacting differently to the grass throughout the developpement. IIRC, there was a time where the grass and the curbs were more slippery than ice. That might be why the grass as too much grip, the new tire model reacts differently to the grass than the old tire model.

 

[David Cordell]

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[Fabrizio Corona]

I did read the pCARS official statements:

"Below is a lap around Oschersleben by Rene, his virtual lap time is remarkably close as the lap time in the real Audi R8 LMS Ultra and the virtual version are just 0,025 seconds apart!

Rast is one of several race car drivers involved in Project CARS, unlike Ben Colins and Nicolas Hamilton, the German sports car driver is not active in an official capacity on WMD though, being a regular member that’s in it for the fun instead."

Thanks for prompting me to do so, so I could confirm your misconception about Rast.

That is a quote from VirtualR, which strangely will DELETE any discussion about Rene Rast being a paid consultant. Find me a quote from the SMS developers that state he isn't one, and that he wasn't gifted a fanatec setup to advertise pCARS on it.

What that quote actually says is that he doesn't have time to give feedback on the forum, but he will gladly promote himself, Fanatec and pCARS from time to time and accept that easy check for doing so. It's no different from all the other "racing drivers" advertising games like GRID/F1/Dirt.
pCARS investors will try to make you believe otherwise. And a few dislikes won't make my comment any less true

 

[Rob]

That is a quote from VirtualR, which strangely will DELETE any discussion about Rene Rast being a paid consultant. Find me a quote from the SMS developers that state he isn't one, and that he wasn't gifted a fanatec setup to advertise pCARS on it.

What that quote actually says is that he doesn't have time to give feedback on the forum, but he will gladly promote himself, Fanatec and pCARS from time to time and accept that easy check for doing so. It's no different from all the other "racing drivers" advertising games like GRID/F1/Dirt.
pCARS investors will try to make you believe otherwise. And a few dislikes won't make my comment any less true

Your logic is bad. Anyone who has ever studied law or philosophy knows it's next to impossible to prove a negative, which is what you ask me to do in the first paragraph. The secondary reason that your logic makes no sense is that neither Rast nor SMS nor WMD have stated publicly that Rast is hired consultant or even under any sort of remunerative agreement with pCARS. Ever stop and think that comments "about Rene Rast being a paid consultant" are false and therefore (see above) inappropriate? Cite me the source please. Answer me this...if Rast is so enthusiastic and pCARS would love to tout him being a "consultant" don't you think it would be well known, such as Collins and Hamilton? It may even be a requirement somewhere or easily available on the internet to find that Rast has been given things of value (besides what many of us can get...the game itself) from WMD/SMS. But at least I provided a quote and a cite. You have provided noting but your own disgust for a very well respected driver.

As for Rast's quote...I'm glad you can read between the lines. Not only can you tell that he gets paid (I understand Fanatec wanting to give away stuff to professional drivers all day long...don't you?) but you can tell other "racing drivers" who advertize games are no different from one who claims not to be a paid consultant and just posts videos on YouTube. Rast has been very open about his training on the big boy simulator. All he is trying to do is mimic that (somewhat) at home, and thinks PCARS is the best thing to do it with. Hell man, read up on it.

As for Rast not taking time to ..... xxx whatever. I started gaming pretty late in life. Honestly, I never thought of even trying to play a video game as a substitute for racing. Why? Because I was too busy racing and trying to get laid. Didn't have access to big simulators because I was a semi-pro and it was the mid 90s., but I'm sure Rast has a lot more things to do that follow your strict orders and "come clean" about a game he simply likes to play when home. Hell, I'm shocked we even get videos from Rast. Where are Hamilton's? Where are Collins'? And they ARE paid.

 

[Andy_J]

The PC guys have been very nice to me here, even if I questioned them or wondered how a PC game that is being compared to the best PC racers will stack up on the console. All valid points of interest, in my book. No personal attacks, condescension or sarcasm. I can see why other PC users just ignore your posts Andy. Personally I'm just thankful that someone at least responds to your "I don't care what the big picture is, I'm going to play it out of the box and then slam it" attitude, so I can at least have an update from those who actually change their settings (I wonder how many on the PC play Assetto with no change in wheel or driving settings?).

If I'm beneath you or an annoyance to your Andy, I apologize, but the game will be released on the console whether you like it or not. So we console users are just as curious...we just can't play, like those PC guys who didn't buy in in time.

Robert, you stated to Fabrizio how you were glad he could read between the lines and simultaneously read people's minds. Well you seem to be quite happy to do that too. As you have done with me.

I'm not going to get into a protracted argument with you as you seem to have made your mind up about me and the game even though you have never tested it and the fact that when you have a go at my opinion, in a personal way, I also see that as a personal attack. But I won't lose any sleep over that fact. It really doesn't bother me to get these attacks by investors or their fans. I'm used to it.

I am not bothered in the slightest that the game will sell big on consoles either. And as for your remark about other PC users ignoring my posts, well again, I don't really care but I am curious as to how you know this or why it matters?

I am happy there is another race sim coming. And I can't wait for the Club races here at Race Department to use Pcars. But I think you have a nerve having a go at me for sharing my opinion on the current build status when you are not even a beta tester or pre aplha tester and don't even try the other race sims on PC. I don't regard you as beneath me either, so please don't read minds and jump to conclusions.

I look forward to the final release and I do know that it will be good and the FFB fine, but as it stands now, with default settings (that's how I test it) the FFB is bad. And that's all I stated. And yes, I do mainly run my other race sims at default in game settings most of the time.

All the best

Andy

 

[Rob]

Robert, you stated to Fabrizio how you were glad he could read between the lines and simultaneously read people's minds. Well you seem to be quite happy to do that too. As you have done with me.

I'm not going to get into a protracted argument with you as you seem to have made your mind up about me and the game even though you have never tested it and the fact that when you have a go at my opinion, in a personal way, I also see that as a personal attack. But I won't lose any sleep over that fact. It really doesn't bother me to get these attacks by investors or their fans. I'm used to it.

I am not bothered in the slightest that the game will sell big on consoles either. And as for your remark about other PC users ignoring my posts, well again, I don't really care but I am curious as to how you know this or why it matters?

I am happy there is another race sim coming. And I can't wait for the Club races here at Race Department to use Pcars. But I think you have a nerve having a go at me for sharing my opinion on the current build status when you are not even a beta tester or pre aplha tester and don't even try the other race sims on PC. I don't regard you as beneath me either, so please don't read minds and jump to conclusions.

I look forward to the final release and I do know that it will be good and the FFB fine, but as it stands now, with default settings (that's how I test it) the FFB is bad. And that's all I stated. And yes, I do mainly run my other race sims at default in game settings most of the time.

All the best

Andy

Ok, Fair is fair. I apologize for any personal insults, but I try to stay away from them and sometimes disagreement is perceived that way, but when things get heated, it can be better not to write it.

So truce. I'll just digest your reviews along with the others. I do appreciate the fact that you are taking time to do this and report on it, because that's valuable no matter what my or your experience is or, rather, expectations are.

Best to you Back,
Rob

 

[Andy_J]

Ok, Fair is fair. I apologize for any personal insults, but I try to stay away from them and sometimes disagreement is perceived that way, but when things get heated, it can be better not to write it.

So truce. I'll just digest your reviews along with the others. I do appreciate the fact that you are taking time to do this and report on it, because that's valuable no matter what my or your experience is or, rather, expectations are.

Best to you Back,
Rob

Hi Rob
My views are merely mine and just a little bit of private testing. Everybody is free to take them or leave them. I appreciate your words though. As for the time being spent on Pcars, well that has dropped off purely because it was not competing enough compared to the other Race sims currently on my PC. I am sure it will in time.

I am hoping in the near future, it will turn a corner and when it does, I'll be the first to do a massive review of it on here and again point out it's pro's and cons, if there are any.

Thanks Rob. Truce and fellow sim ............fellowship.

regards
Andy

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Your logic is bad. Anyone who has ever studied law or philosophy knows it's next to impossible to prove a negative, which is what you ask me to do in the first paragraph. The secondary reason that your logic makes no sense is that neither Rast nor SMS nor WMD have stated publicly that Rast is hired consultant or even under any sort of remunerative agreement with pCARS. Ever stop and think that comments "about Rene Rast being a paid consultant" are false and therefore (see above) inappropriate on someone's forum? Cite me the source oh wise one. Answer me this...if Rast is so enthusiastic and pCARS would love to tout him being a "consultant" don't you think it would be well known, such as Collins and Hamilton? It may even be a requirement in some law somewhere or easily available on the internet to find that Rast has been given things of value (besides what many of us can get...the game itself) from WMD/SMS. Never mind....I'm sure you have some bizarre conspiracy theory for this too. But at least I provided a quote and a cite. You have provided noting but your own insipid disgust for a very well respected driver.

As for Rast's quote...I'm glad you can read between the lines and simultaneously read people's minds. You should be in the FBI or Scotland Yard with those kind of skills. Not only can you tell that he gets paid (I understand Fanatec wanting to give away stuff to professional drivers all day long...don't you?) but you can tell other "racing drivers" (do the quotes mean they are not real racing driver? Or are just not up to your racing standards at the real track?) who advertize games are no different from one who claims not to be a paid consultant and just posts videos on YouTube. Rast has been very open about his training on the big boy simulator. All he is trying to do is mimic that (somewhat) at home, and thinks PCARS is the best thing to do it with. Hell man, read up on it.

As for Rast not taking time to ..... xxx whatever. I started gaming pretty late in life. Honestly, I never thought of even trying to play a video game as a substitute for racing. Why? Because I was too busy racing and trying to get laid. Didn't have access to big simulators because I was a semi-pro and it was the mid 90s., but I'm sure Rast has a lot more things to do that follow your strict orders and "come clean" about a game he simply likes to play when home. Hell, I'm shocked we even get videos from Rast. Where are Hamilton's? Where are Collins'? And they ARE paid.

See Fanatec logo ? See "Fanatec features" being showcased by professional racing driver ? Why would he do that if he bought the setup himself ? (BTW there is no such stupid law and will never be.)

Isn't it strange to you that he only posts pCARS videos ? And when people ask him about other sims he never says anything*, although he will frequently respond to other questions ?
He is not a consultant like the other 2 because he gives no feedback back to the developers.

*he once said he tried "other" sims and he said he feels pCARS is the most realistic, but didn't name any of them. And you say he isn't getting paid for it haha.

 

[Rob]

See Fanatec logo ? See "Fanatec features" being showcased by professional racing driver ? Why would he do that if he bought the setup himself ? (BTW there is no such stupid law and will never be.)

Isn't it strange to you that he only posts pCARS videos ? And when people ask him about other sims he never says anything*, although he will frequently respond to other questions ?
He is not a consultant like the other 2 because he gives no feedback back to the developers.

*he once said he tried "other" sims and he said he feels pCARS is the most realistic, but didn't name any of them. And you say he isn't getting paid for it haha.

I think this is his the simulator that he mentions all the time. It's just Professional grade. And Porche may even have a better one, but I'm not sure.

 

[c172fccc]

See Fanatec logo ? See "Fanatec features" being showcased by professional racing driver ? Why would he do that if he bought the setup himself ? (BTW there is no such stupid law and will never be.)

Isn't it strange to you that he only posts pCARS videos ? And when people ask him about other sims he never says anything*, although he will frequently respond to other questions ?
He is not a consultant like the other 2 because he gives no feedback back to the developers.

*he once said he tried "other" sims and he said he feels pCARS is the most realistic, but didn't name any of them. And you say he isn't getting paid for it haha.

Do you see Project CARS' logo in the video? Do you see the name of the game in the title? Strange for someone that is supposedly paid for Project CARS' marketing.

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Do you see Project CARS' logo in the video? Do you see the name of the game in the title? Strange for someone that is supposedly paid for Project CARS' marketing.

I was proving a point about Fanatec, first of all. Second, why has there to be a pCARS logo in the video ? It's not advertising if there isn't one ?

The name in the title is there in half of his videos, only if you had bothered to look.

 

[c172fccc]

I was proving a point about Fanatec, first of all. Second, why has there to be a pCARS logo in the video ? It's not advertising if there isn't one ?

The name in the title is there in half of his videos, only if you had bothered to look.

You know what? It is us (wmd members) that asked him to put "Project CARS" in the title of his videos. If you look at hist first videos, there is absolutely no mention of Project CARS.

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

You know what? It is us (wmd members) that asked him to put "Project CARS" in the title of his videos. If you look at hist first videos, there is absolutely no mention of Project CARS.

So why do you ask me if i see the name of the game in the title ?

 

[c172fccc]

So why do you ask me if i see the name of the game in the title ?

Forget what I said. I mean, come on, can't René just enjoy the game without being accuse of being paid? It's not because you're not enjoying the game that he is getting paid to makes it look like he is enjoying it. It's getting silly now, as soon you like Project CARS or you think that it is realistic, you're not a real sim driver, or you're getting paid or you're a fanboy.

 

[Andy_J]

It is getting silly. Just let people like the game or not like it. It is personal choice.

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Forget what I said. I mean, come on, can't René just enjoy the game without being accuse of being paid? It's not because you're not enjoying the game that he is getting paid to makes it look like he is enjoying it. It's getting silly now, as soon you like Project CARS or you think that it is realistic, you're not a real sim driver, or you're getting paid or you're a fanboy.

I'm not saying he isn't enjoying it.

And saying somebody is paid to advertise a game is not "accusing", one is accused for doing something illegal or wrong, this is just simple business. And i'm not saying he has a deal with SMS because he is enjoying the game, it's a series of factors that make it look that way. Why do you always try to victimize him ?

 

[c172fccc]

I'm not saying he isn't enjoying it.

And saying somebody is paid to advertise a game is not "accusing", one is accused for doing something illegal or wrong, this is just simple business. And i'm not saying he has a deal with SMS because he is enjoying the game, it's a series of factors that make it look that way. Why do you always try to victimize him ?

There is also a lot of factors that makes it looks like he isn't paid and it's also been confirmed that he isn't paid, what do you need more?

And no, I'm not trying to victimize him.