Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

Yup. Exactly that ^^^^^^^

I also noticed in his review that the stereo overlap improvement was noticeable as well.

My guess is by the time they have everything sorted, Valve will have announced their next headset and it will be at yet another level. However I'm also betting it may come out a quarter before the 5090 is released and that GPU will make it much more of what it can be.

I'll also guess that a 12K won't be released until after the 5090 and that it will be wanting for the 6090 as it is released.

But those are just dart throws.

 

[Leynad777]

This is an interesting review in that it's the end of April and this is still a Beta non-production headset. Any guesses on when it will be non-beta and shipping?

He said it was "mostly usable" but drivers needs work and the controller tracking needs work, the audio has no bass to speak of. FOV was meh. He said they working on the audio still.

He did say it was more comfortable than his 8KX and he was glowing about the color and clarity. He also said it was a similar weight to the 8KX. He generally liked local dimming, but said it had blooming and and he wasn't sure everyone would like it, but it did go very black.

So they appear to have the visuals working well, but for some titles the Crystal was still unplayable and he has a 4090.

View attachment 658125

In titles like Half Life Alyx which is extremely efficient he had to turn off AA to get a good frame rate. With the Aero I have everything in Alyx maxed out including AA with no issues. So it appears the current performance of the Crystal is lagging behind quite a bit. He said Resident Evil was unplayable. Below is with HAM enabled with FFR which he said dropped the vertical resolution to 94 and it helped. His earlier test without FFR and HAM was solid red.

I've not tried Resident Evil with the Aero for comparison, but I found a post on the Varjo forum calling RE 8 "Freaking Amazing". I just asked what kind of frame rates he was getting.

Notice the "other batteries" below the controller batteries.
View attachment 658139

The guy is running 4428x5292 pixel per eye with the Crystal. That's almost triple-4k per eye. I can "run" my 8KX with similar BS-settings, but I just don't do that.

 

[Leynad777]

I hope the Index 2 looks much different than this or you have to saw off the top of your seat or use a go-kart seat to use it comfortably.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The guy is running 4428x5292 pixel per eye with the Crystal. That's almost triple-4k per eye. I can "run" my 8KX with similar BS-settings, but I just don't do that.

What resolution do you run?

 

[Leynad777]

What resolution do you run?

In AMS2 and rF2 I'm running 4076x3884 pixel per eye (92% SS with "small" FOV) with fixed foveated rendering on conservative, that usually gives me about 87 fps average with the 4080. That's actually like running almost four 4k displays (plus my G9), so a quite impressive performance thanks to OpenXR and FFR.

In ACC I had to lower it to 52% SS (app 3.3x2.7k) to crank up the pixel density in game to over 150%. Otherwise it looks even more crap.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

In AMS2 and rF2 I'm running 4076x3884 pixel per eye (92% SS with "small" FOV) with fixed foveated rendering on conservative, that usually gives me about 87 fps average with the 4080. That's actually like running almost four 4k displays (plus my G9), so a quite impressive performance thanks to OpenXR and FFR.

In ACC I had to lower it to 52% SS (app 3.3x2.7k) to crank up the pixel density in game to over 150%. Otherwise it looks even more crap.

And for ACC I just sit in a corner and cry.

 

[Leynad777]

And for ACC I just sit a corner and cry.

Maybe because the start-screen in ACC VR is you sitting in a corner in this depressing looking fitting room. Who came up with this idea?

 

[RCHeliguy]

He is saying that of all things running in SteamVR instead of OpenXR boosted his fps by about double which is great. However there is no way to get DFR from SteamVR.

Hopefully this just means there is a problem with their OpenXR compatibility that they can fix. If so Crystal owners could get that doubling + a bit more with DFR.

 

[gamma123152]

He is saying that of all things running in SteamVR instead of OpenXR boosted his fps by about double which is great. However there is no way to get DFR from SteamVR.

Hopefully this just means there is a problem with their OpenXR compatibility that they can fix. If so Crystal owners could get that doubling + a bit more with DFR.

Yup, mbucchia will make an update probably soon and then the OpenXR issues will be solved. That's my hope but that's also what I expect since mbucchia always fixes such issues quite quickly. ~2 weeks ago he worked together with Pimax on a other fix for the Pimax OpenXR runtime and got it solved quickly. So they cooperate together now.

I've also understood from a other beta tester that there's no visible difference between 70% and 100% and everything in between that, so that the resolution is indeed bugged probably. If this is true then the performance will maybe be OK when you simply chose a normal resolution. It sounds much better then how it looked yesterday at least.

There is also an software update announced for tomorrow, maybe that will improve things even further.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interesting. Two takeaways from this. "Reluctantly" saying the Crystal has better image quality is actually more of a compliment, because it shows he is having to be convinced rather than just gushing and he has a solid reference point. "still prefer the Aero" "at the moment" points to everything else outside image quality, but he qualified that and it's still early days.

" even at a lower render than the Aero. I still (reluctantly) maintain the Crystal has a better, sharper image than the Aero. Based upon the deeper colours, less CA, better binocular overlap and bigger FOV. I wonder if the glass lenses are helping here too. At the moment though, I still prefer the Aero. "

FWIW, while I would never purchase a Pimax product, I am excited that they were able to get that type of image quality. I can only assume Steve would have made comments about barrel distortion if it were an issue. That suggests to me with all the lens iterations they've gone through that they have found a way to very quickly map distortion out and to do that without objectionable moire and CA either points to the display pixel pattern making this less of an issue or software correction. Ideally fixing this as the source would make interchangeable lenses easier to deal with and create less of a software load. OTOH they have a lot of processing power in the headset, so they could have all kinds of correction happening on board.

 

[gamma123152]

" even at a lower render than the Aero. I still (reluctantly) maintain the Crystal has a better, sharper image than the Aero. Based upon the deeper colours, less CA, better binocular overlap and bigger FOV. I wonder if the glass lenses are helping here too. At the moment though, I still prefer the Aero. "

It seems that he said that because he simply wasn't able to run the Crystal with a playable framerate yesterday. But there REALLY seemsed to be a bug with the shown resolution. Because he now updated the story with a new video. In that video he simply set the same resolution on the Crystal as he uses with the Aero and the Crystal is STILL sharper.

So yes, I understand that if he was only able to run MSFS at 25fps that he still preferred the Aero over the Crystal, because 25fps is simply unplayable. There's not really a choice if the framerate is THAT low, that's like watching a slideshow. But I expect that he's changing his opinion soon now that he got that issue solved.

See here the video:

 

[BrunoBæ]

But I expect that he's changing his opinion soon now that he got that issue solved.

If you listen to this latest video it sounds like he has allready changed his mind pro Crystal

 

[RCHeliguy]

If you listen to this latest video it sounds like he has allready changed his mind pro Crystal

He is now using a fiber optic cable with the Crystal which he says is much lighter.
He's fitted the DMASS audio which he says is better than the headband audio.

He has also said that it is heavy and some people may struggle with that. He misses the air blowing on his face in the Aero.

Based on what he is saying on his discord server, I don't think he has changed his mind yet, but I can't tell if this is because he is clinging to an old friend or not. I'm also not saying that he won't eventually decide to like the Pimax more.

Frankly his absolute preference is a bit irrelevant at this point. Once you get past better color, contrast, vertical FOV, and it being comfortable despite the weight, you've hit a threshold where people are going to jump.

From what I can tell he doesn't spend much/any time in room scale VR, so hand tracking, and the additional weight that you have to move whipping your head around, won't be factors that come into play.

So now the question is whether the Crystal can be manufactured well, has good quality control, has good support after the sale and whether for example Pimax actually does send out glass lenses in mass projection and this isn't a bait and switch since it is still a Beta headset.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FWIW an Aero vs Crystal comparison video is coming.

 

[cnhoff]

FWIW an Aero vs Crystal comparison video is coming.

He is pleasing his audience.

 

[RCHeliguy]

He is pleasing his audience.

You think?

 

[cnhoff]

You think?

Well i guess you can either post a single video which is thorougly investigated and contains everything you have to say about a project (which obviously does not make any sense for an influencer) or you make a series out of it as you go (which makes a lot of sense for an influencer). The latter is probably also more fun for tech geeks like we are...

 

[RCHeliguy]

Well i guess you can either post a single video which is thorougly investigated and contains everything you have to say about a project (which obviously does not make any sense for an influencer) or you make a series out of it as you go (which makes a lot of sense for an influencer). The latter is probably also more fun for tech geeks like we are...

I actually think this guy has shown restraint.
He did want to capture his initial reactions and he got that. The follow up was more of a response to the initial performance issues and I think appropriate. It was short and sweet. He promised an Aero vs. Crystal comparison from the beginning, so this was coming and people already said they were interested. I expect that he will have a longer term use video as well and that works for his brand as an actual simmer who seems to seriously enjoy flying in VR.

By comparison MR TV has worn me out and gotten on my last nerve. I stopped watching him and I don't feel like he adds anything of value to the VR space anymore. His videos are mostly a joke these days.

I very much prefer Thrillseeker, Sadly its Bradley and even this VR Flight Sim Guy because he is actually a simmer who figures out how to make things work in real life. Actually all three of them seem like they are very much into the VR experience and not just running around blowing hot air. We don't have an equivalent to VR Flight Sim Guy for sim racing.

What's interesting is that Thrillseeker has the most polished channel with the highest production value, and he still doesn't come off like a shill. Either he's a very good actor or he sincerely cares about VR and the equipment surrounding it. Either way, he presents information regularly that is interesting and varied.

 

[cnhoff]

No objections to what you are saying. The basic thing i wanted to say is lots of people have been eager to hear about the crystal and of course are interested in a 1:1 comparison which he is going to deliver.

 

[Novopaine]

By comparison MR TV has worn me out and gotten on my last nerve. I stopped watching him and I don't feel like he adds anything of value to the VR space anymore. His videos are mostly a joke these days.

I stopped taking him seriously after the HP G2 launch. All of his videos for the G2 kept raving how amazing it was. I was really excited until the real world user reviews came out. I can't take him seriously anymore and I'll only watch his videos if I'm bored.